First strike

[Xan9bhaal]

this has probably been discussed and described before, but I havent got the time to find it on forums. So perhaps someone can clarify for me, how I should measure the First Strike skill/promotion in comparison with other things. It is, the way I see it, the only thing in regards of combat odds, that isnt really explained adequately in the game. Thanks in advance

 

[Refar]

First strike lets your unit strike frist (do'h ) having the chance to deal some damage while the enemy can not retaliate. However, if and how much damage your unit will do depends on the relative strenght of the fighting units.

So:

Giving first strike to a unit that has very low odds, will not help you a lot, because while your unit will strike first, it's chances to actually do some damage with that strike are very low.

However, if you give First strike to a unit that already has high odds of winning, the first strikes will most likely be successful and deal lots of damage to a enemy, so your unit is likely to take less damage in the fight.

This might be i.e. usefull when defending against siege - by doing damage via first strike (or at least canceling the attackers first strikes) you reduce the number of combat rounds and hence the collateral damage yousr stack will take.

This makes first stirke often a good defensive promotion, as you are expecting the defender to have some advantage (good odds) and you want the defender to take as little damage as possible, so he can defend multiple times.

first strike promotions might have some use on attacks as well, but generally when attacking you rather want to give promotions increasing the odds first (like CR, or Cover/Shock), as first strikes at low odds are not very effective.

 

[Xan9bhaal]

Thanks mate. Nice thorough explanation. It did imagine it to be that kind of way. But since it is the only skill which cant be calculated in percentages, it still is a little more vague. But of cause it makes sense the way you would suggest to use it.

 

[Refar]

There was a article on combat machanics in the Strategy Articles section, giving some numbers on it (Like at what relative strenght Drill is better than other Promotion), but i cant find it right now

Perhaps someone who remember's the articles name or author can point to it...

 

[AfterShafter]

Whatever strength drill is better than other promotions at, you never see enemies immune to combat. Though if you're protective, drill starts looking mighty fine.

 

[Refar]

Whatever strength drill is better than other promotions at, you never see enemies immune to combat. Though if you're protective, drill starts looking mighty fine.

This is true, but promotions are often given seeing the enemy (it's all situational ), so of course you dont give drill if planning to engage a 'immune to first strikes' guy.

 

[jkp1187]

There was a article on combat machanics in the Strategy Articles section, giving some numbers on it (Like at what relative strenght Drill is better than other Promotion), but i cant find it right now

Perhaps someone who remember's the articles name or author can point to it...

Is this the one you were thinking of?

http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=137615

 

[Refar]

Yes.

 

[Solomwi]

Keep in mind also that Drill II, III and IV each include "20% less collateral damage taken," so a significant number of drill units in a stack can soak up those siege units and have enough units left in fighting shape to keep going, in addition to the factor mentioned above.

 

[obsolete]

It seems the labeling of First Strike really confuses people, because it sounds so 'attack' valueish.

To make it even simpler to understand. First Strike really counts as armour. You have 2 elements in war-logistics, armanents, and amour. FS counts as a defense, despite the confusion of how battles are carried out.

It should also be noted there are two different kinds of first strikes. Some are CHANCE first strikes, and some are GUARANTEED first strikes.

 

[occam]

This might be i.e. usefull when defending against siege - by doing damage via first strike (or at least canceling the attackers first strikes) you reduce the number of combat rounds and hence the collateral damage yousr stack will take.

This is not an accurate understanding of collateral damage, which is only applied once. First strikes do not reduce collateral damage in any way, I believe - not by removing rounds of enemy first strikes or by killing faster to avoid it.

First strikes are useful when the combat is very evenly matched - provides a lot of bang for the buck if you have just one promotion and must win the next battle. Also useful to preserve hit points of a unit that is very strong, to keep an offensive going.

Also, trebuchets do surprisingly well with it -- CR is based off a STR of 4, but the first strike is using the innate city attack bonus. Also, siege in BTS benefit more than older versions since they can't finish a battle (so the beginning is weighted more). Similarly, if a unit has lots of defensive bonuses like an archer in a city on a hill, first strike(s) will use them all, instead of merely stacking a bit on top (for a much smaller pro-rated increase). Units with first strike immunity (e.g. Oromo Warrior) gain a little bit extra from their first strikes.