For moderators: Could we reorganize this forum?

[Kapor]

Hello,
I came back to playing Civ4 and FfH after some time and I enjoy it pretty much. However, I have to admit that it's a bit hard to figure out which mods and modmods I could and should use, which mods are still being worked on, which are abandoned and unplayable for years, and which mods DO exist, but under different name, because other people have taken over.

To quote black_imperator of Final Fixes modmod:

You have three main remaining branches of FFH modmods :

Ashes of Erebus, which is here, which follows from Fall Further and Rise of Erebus, and tries to fix bugs and balance issue from those mods while realizing some of the concepts that were unfinished. Compared to FFH, you'll find a few new civs and some new mechanics.

More Naval AI, which is similar to normal FFH with plenty of AI work and bugfixes. It has two modmods still worked on too :
-Extramodmod which is focused on balanced multiplayer, iirc
-Magister Modmod, which is focused on bringing the whole ffh lore to the game.

Master of Mana Extended, which follows from WildMana and Master of Mana, which basically reworks completely every system of the game (and especially the Magic System) into something very complex.

Therefore, Fall Further modmod, which has own subforum, didn't have any relevant posts for years. It could be archived and closed. Same for Orbis modmod. Erase subforums, leave threads with download links and move them to FfH2 Modmods, Scenarios, and Maps folder.

In any case, my idea is to clear this place a bit, to make it easier for new players (and more likely, old players coming back), so that they can easily access new stuff and get to play without spending hours by looking through abandoned treads to find new stuff and then giving up.
Since there are actually new modmods STILL being made, and since they are great, I think it's worth the effort to clear this place a bit!
Thank you!

 

[Honor]

I agree with the above

You probably need to PM a mod, though; I doubt they visit this place often.

 

[Kapor]

Thank you. I was trying to find out who the mods are, but I don't know how.
I think I'll report my own post that should notify the mods I guess

 

[leif erikson]

It did get our attention.

The problem is that the Fall From Heaven Team needs to put forth a proposal for what needs to be done.

 

[Honor]

All of them or would Kael be enough?

 

[leif erikson]

Would like to see a consensus from the team. Do not want to go through making numerous changes and then have a bunch of complaints about them.

 

[black_imperator]

At this point, it's less about the FFH team which isn't much around anymore and more about what the various remaining modmodders think ( so @Tholal for MNAI, @esvath for Master of Mana Extended, @MagisterCultuum, @Terkhen for Extramodmod and @ciruela for the game of thrones mod, those, along with Ashes of Erebus, seem to be the only active modmods in the forum)

 

[Terkhen]

I am happy with just one or two threads for ExtraModMod in the More Naval AI subforum, if that is confusing then I would not mind having a subforum specific for ExtraModMod. Given the amount of users and posts that it has maybe that would be a bit of an overkill, though

I think that the subforum scheme that we have right now is mostly fine. Fall Further being on the root may be a bit inconsistent because all other modmod subforums are in the
FfH2 Modmods, Scenarios, and Maps subforum, but other than that I don't see the problem. I don't think that the subforums of inactive modmods should be archived and definitely not deleted.

 

[Kapor]

Hurray for the responses!

I think that the subforum scheme that we have right now is mostly fine. Fall Further being on the root may be a bit inconsistent because all other modmod subforums are in the

Yeah, I agree with this one.

. I don't think that the subforums of inactive modmods should be archived and definitely not deleted.

The problem is that most of those mods do not work anymore on the current FfH release. Or if they DO work, download links are gone.
For new players, or old ones coming back, it may be frustrating going back and forth trying to find out what works and what doesn't, and what is a modmod of original Fall from Heaven, and what is a modmodmod of a modmod abandoned long ago The idea is to make it simpler for people to find cool and new stuff that works.


Kael is active on Reddit, maybe we can try to get him to at least update the first post. Currently, players who want to try FfH need to:
1) Download 0.41
2) Download patch "o"
3) Download the unofficial patch "p" for sons of asena fix.

This makes no sense at the very least, he could combine all three to single download file, and call it FfH Final release.

 

[Terkhen]

The problem is that most of those mods do not work anymore on the current FfH release. Or if they DO work, download links are gone.

So the solution to prevent new people from getting confused is just removing all old stuff? Who would judge what things should be removed? Who would do the work of removing all of that? What if someone wants to grab an ancient 3.17 Beyond the Sword patch and some ancient Fall from Heaven version to play again some old modmod that they remember fondly, just to find that the thread is deleted?

I understand your point, but really, that's not a solution. If you want to help new users get into Fall from Heaven 2, create, organize, and mantain a thread that explains the current situation of Fall from Heaven 2 here in the main subforum. If the modmod and modmodmod (and likely modmodmodmod) situation is confusing, it may be worth updating / redoing the https://forums.civfanatics.com/threads/ffh-2-modmods-scenarios-and-maps-index.335107/ thread.

Kael is active on Reddit, maybe we can try to get him to at least update the first post.

https://www.reddit.com/r/fallfromheaven/comments/5arqzs/civ_6_possibility/d9j90n9/

 

[Rob (R8XFT)]

Moderator Action: If it's to prevent new people from getting confused, why not have a sticky thread entitled something like "New to FFH? Read this first!"? Would that clear up any confusion?

 

[Kapor]

So the solution to prevent new people from getting confused is just removing all old stuff? Who would judge what things should be removed? Who would do the work of removing all of that? What if someone wants to grab an ancient 3.17 Beyond the Sword patch and some ancient Fall from Heaven version to play again some old modmod that they remember fondly, just to find that the thread is deleted?

Yeah, I know and I agree. How does archiving work, anyway? I am not fond of deleting stuff, either.

Moderator Action: If it's to prevent new people from getting confused, why not have a sticky thread entitled something like "New to FFH? Read this first!"? Would that clear up any confusion?

Yeah, that'd be a good start. Maybe with additional sticky thread in each modmod subforum that isn't active, saying that modmod isn't developed anymore?
And moving fall further to FfH modmods section?

 

[Rob (R8XFT)]

Yeah, that'd be a good start. Maybe with additional sticky thread in each modmod subforum that isn't active, saying that modmod isn't developed anymore?
And moving fall further to FfH modmods section?

Moderator Action: In terms of moving the fall further sub-forum, I'll need to get Leif involved, as that's an admin function - would you also include Age of Ice as that seems equally inactive? For the sticky threads, would you please create the threads, then report each one, asking for it to be made a sticky thread?

 

[black_imperator]

No, Age of Ice is an official standalone scenario based on FFh, not a modmod. So its current location is good

 

[Rob (R8XFT)]

Moderator Action: So is that the consensus then, that we move fall further to modmods? Is someone going set up the threads to sticky?

 

[black_imperator]

Would something like that work for the New to FFH thread ?:

Spoiler :

Welcome to the FFH Subforum.
Fall from Heaven is a fantasy mod for Civilization 4 :Beyond the Sword whose development ran from 2006 to 2009.

-If you're looking to download the original mod, see here : https://forums.civfanatics.com/threads/ffh2-bug-thread.308020/ Note that since it isn't developped anymore, no additional bugfix will be provided. If you're looking for bugfixes, see the modmod section.

-If you're looking for information about Fall from Heaven : Age of Ice, the official Scenario based on the mod distributed with Beyond the Sword, see here : https://forums.civfanatics.com/forums/fall-from-heaven-age-of-ice.263/

Fall from Heaven was a very popular mod and inspired others to create content for it. Several modmods were developed and a few are still active to this day. Here is the list of the active modmods :

-More Naval AI : as its name indicates, it was first started as an improvement to FFH's naval AI and evolved into a large mod including AI reworks, balancing and bugfixes. It is probably the closest to the original mod amongst the active modmods. For more information, see here : https://forums.civfanatics.com/forums/more-naval-ai-modmod.476/
More Naval AI also serves as a base for two modmodmods who are also still active :
-- ExtraModMod who focuses on balancing mechanics and adding new options while keeping stability and multiplayer balance as much as possible. For more info see here: https://forums.civfanatics.com/threads/extramodmod.486227/
--MagisterModMod who focuses on bringing the full majesty of FFH's Lore into the game. For more info, see here : https://forums.civfanatics.com/threads/magistermodmod.455111/


-Master of Mana Extended, which is a follow-up to Wildmana and Master of Mana, a mod of Fall From Heaven that reworked most of the game mechanics (especially magic) into a more complex and strategic game. For more info, see here : https://forums.civfanatics.com/threads/master-of-mana-xtended.542512/


-Ashes of Erebus, a follow-up to Fall Further and Rise from Erebus is a modmod who tries to fullfil some of the concepts introduced in those two modmods by fixing issues and implementing missing mechanics. It also supports the totality of additions made by the two mods, so expect some new civilizations and mechanics compared to vanilla Fall From Heaven. For more info, see here : https://forums.civfanatics.com/threads/final-fixes-reborn.493730/

There are occasionally other modmods released and worked on, so don't hesistate to go to the modmod subforum and look at them : https://forums.civfanatics.com/forums/ffh2-modmods-scenarios-and-maps.280/

Another question : is it possible to get moderator access for a subforum only ? ( or at least thread editing access, i'd like to be able to make some changes to the Final fixes reborn original post, but i'm not the original poster and he's mia)

 

[Kapor]

@black_imperator, it looks great!
Thank you all!
I can set up sticky threads tomorrow, since today I'm on my smartphone only. If someone else wants to do it earlier, he is welcome!

 

[Rob (R8XFT)]

Moderator Action: Please report the first thread in any thread you wish to be sticky and ask us to stick them. I'll ask Leif to move fall further to modmods.

 

[leif erikson]

Done

 

[Ozbenno]

If you need any further changes to the layout, threads being stickied etc in this forum just post in here or PM me. If I'm being slack and don't respond in a few days report the thread as Rob mentioned earlier.

Another question : is it possible to get moderator access for a subforum only ? ( or at least thread editing access, i'd like to be able to make some changes to the Final fixes reborn original post, but i'm not the original poster and he's mia)

I can help out here if you let me know what changes need to happen.