Foreign Contacts

[Rout]

At present we have no embassies with any other nation, and we only have one contact (the &@$*@*D Vikings!).
Current wonder production indicates that we have no plan to build Marco's. It is generally accepted that the other projects (Cop's & Mike's) are more important and therefore take priority.
Current unit production indicates a lean towards diplomats and triemes (apart from caravans).

I would like to discuss, if i can spell it, the options we have in order to gather a more infomed view of the oppositions advances in technology.

Setting embassies up with diplomats:
+ We needn't build a wonder.
+ We do not lose contact after communism.
- It uses up the diplomat.
- We have to actually get the Diplomaticus there.

Marco Polo's Embassy
+ A wonder, innit! Points!
+ Smaller sheild cost than many other wonders.
+ No need to deliver Dippy.
+ No need to actually find the cities, will be quicker.
- A wonder, not on our queue.
- Defunct after communism. (note, we should definately build the UN though so it may not be a problem).

My own preference is to start Marco's with a city not producing a wonder currently, and priorotise caravans to the other projects, then to trade, then to this.
If a foreign nation finishes it, there is no problem, as it can be turned into any other wonder, and we will be glad of having a half built wonder by then!
Ideas? Views? Abuse? Cash (sterling preferred)? Send em here!

I will post a poll perhaps depending on the idea gaining at least some support.

 

[Jayne]

I like the idea of setting a town to start building Marco's, and see what happens. As you say, we don't need to through caravans at it and we can always change it to something else. It'll be useful to see how we are doing compared to other nations, in particular keeping an eye on those Wonders. Reneaux would be a good city. Donates 5 shields to production each time, and is not on the edge of the island so pretty safe from barb/ai attacks.

 

[duke o' york]

Remember that if we commit a city to building a wonder in this way then it will grow unchecked, and we won't be able to build a temple mid-wonder project. You can only have three troops of martial law so once the city grows enough then there will be black people and the trouble associated with these antisocial workshy layabouts. I'd prefer to just keep stacking up caravans with the idea that we can use them now or later, and it will give us better control and flexibility over wonder-building projects.

 

[Jayne]

Good point, but Reneaux has a temple, and lots of forest to help limit growth

 

[Rout]

Yes, if we pick a temple city with high prod, we can staunch growth and maximise productivity.

 

[funxus]

If we do this, then I'd suggest building caravans for stacking, just like Duke said. Building caravans opposed to building the wonder directly almost only is positive. Caravans are cheaper, we can IPRB them, we can later on choose which city we want it in, and in case of an emergency, AI landing close to the city it is easier or we need a guard, we can always switch to a unit. We also will have 3 pauses in the production where we can add a unit, temple or anything else we need.

 

[MonkE]

Caravans certainly offer the greatest flexibility. But if we build them in a city intending to accumulate for MP, I'm guessing that at some point we'll wish to divert some of them toward Mike's or Leo's anyway.

Perhaps it would be useful to consider total shields required and available cities for production, and estimate how long it would take to build all the high priority wonders. Do we have the required capacity to cover our priorities with enough to spare for the "would like to haves"?

 

[heliogabalus]

If we go for the "Caravan stacking" approach, we have to be careful not to forget that some of them are intended to help Marco Polo in Reneaux (?). I think we need a lot of them to help with Cop's and Mike's. If Reneaux has the temple and adequate micromanaging opportunities (forests) to slow down / control growth, I say let's go for it!

 

[Zwelgje]

I like caravan stacking as well.
If some other civ builds the wonder we're heading for and no other wonder we'd like to have is available we're screwed! So let's just build lots of caravans until the wonder can be build. If we miss out on the wonder we can always make a trade route!

 

[MonkE]

Let's say we do get Marco Polo's. We should also discuss the possibilities from there. For example, should we attempt to trade maps (perhaps by trading/giving non-critical tech) so we know where to send caravans (or war parties)? Of course, then the AI would know where we are ...

 

[Jayne]

At the risk of sounding cynical, the AI know where we are anyway!

 

[GaryNemo]

Pre Commiting a city is best at 3000BC, and we are way past that. Caravan stacking is the way to go. I have no objection to building Marco Polo after Cop's. I also think the Diplomat idea might work. We should simple build cities, and caravans by the bushel. If Leo's is a ways off, we'll have the caravans available.

Btw, has anyone noticed that we 'happened' to have the caravans being built to Cop's - by Filler Cities?

 

[GaryNemo]

I with they'd take that damn "Reset Form Button" off this screen!

One other thought. The F8 City display tells us most if we confine our wonders to the one or two cities.
Presently: Dehli - 2 Wonders, Trondheim - 2 Wonders, Persepolis!

 

[Leowind]

Caravan stacking makes the most sense from a game point of view, but I would worry in a demo game about a later president forgetting what they were for and using them elsewhere. Of course, if they were needed elsewhere, then that was probably a higher priority anyway. The other problem I always have is remember that the caravans were intended for a future wonder, or remembering that they are there when I start the wonder. I've been half-way through production of a wonder when I've happened upon a caravan or two fortified somewhere and gone "Oh yeah, that was for this wonder I'm building." Seems in a demo game with so many people involved this risk becomes even greater. Still, Caravans makes most sense, I think.

 

[Duke of Marlbrough]

I think with some many people the risk is less. Someone's bound to remember what they are for.

As far as foreign contacts go, if we can get Marco's and have no other Wonder that should be built before it, all the better. As far as knowing what Techs other Civ's have, well, we know that after taking their city the Vikings only tech that we did not have was Iron Working.

Based on the idea of building 'more important' Wonders first I have rarely ever built Marco's. Thus, I have had little experience with it and probably wouldn't know how to use it to it's full potential.

 

[MonkE]

It's the same as embassies with all AI. One use is for trading maps with unmet AI to find caravan destinations. Another is to keep track of AI tech. Another is to "help" one AI declare war on another. I'm sure there are more.

 

[duke o' york]

Another, and one of my favourites (), is to see what the AI is researching, and then to dump "junk techs" on them so they take ages to get to whatever they were first after. This can be very useful if they're about to get Gunpowder or something and you want to attack them while their phalanxes are still weak. Simply make peace briefly, give them Mysticism, Polytheism, Monotheism, Theology, Navigation, etc.

 

[Rout]

Originally posted by Duke of Marlbrough
I think with some many people the risk is less. Someone's bound to remember what they are for.

As far as foreign contacts go, if we can get Marco's and have no other Wonder that should be built before it, all the better. As far as knowing what Techs other Civ's have, well, we know that after taking their city the Vikings only tech that we did not have was Iron Working.

Based on the idea of building 'more important' Wonders first I have rarely ever built Marco's. Thus, I have had little experience with it and probably wouldn't know how to use it to it's full potential.

I have use it a lot. The main reason i lke it is that i know exactly the tech situation of rivals. If we attack do they have musketeers? Or democracy government? If we have the great wall, is anyone researching metallurgy? If we have Hanging Baskets, are they researching....er...memory lapse...
Also, it can be used to see who is at war with who etc, helping predict the likely outcomes of emissary contact, and can be used to swap knowledge with a power with new techs that we want, the turn that THEY get it (caution if someone has the Great Library, esp your immediate enemies).
I find it uaseful to keep an eye on distant civs, as these are the ones likely to be the rivals later on, when our neighbours have been 'liberated'!