Forests: an exploit

[André Alfenaar]

I think I have found a way to boost production such a way that it feels more like an exploit.

The idea is that before irrigating plains & grasslands you should nearly always first put some forests on them and cut those and irrigate (no mines!). When your city is amid a low-production area of grassland you can think about postponing the woodcutting.

After the discovery of railroad (and, especially the possibility to build hospitals!) you had better cut all the woods and turn your workers on 'automatic'. Mined grassland with railroads give two shields, but actually irrigating grassland is more profitable: your population will increase more rapidly and you will get some specialists in return.

Industrious civ's clearly have some advantage in this respect.

PS(1): Grasslands shouldn't be mined. FOLLOW YOUR INTUITION!
PS(2): Build Hospitals before Factories!

I am playing Emperor and winning with over 4000 points.

 

[Shabbaman]

http://www.civfanatics.com/doc/civ3/cracker/civ3_starts/forestry.htm

 

[ducki]

I disagree about Grasslands if I am in or heading towards my Golden Age, because in that case, you want every possible tile to be producing at least one shield to get the bonus.

 

[civ_steve]

Engineering is required before you can plant forests. That's a long time to wait before irrigating any squares!

Once you have the tech Steam Power, and can upgrade roads to railroads, every square with a forest is as or more productive with the forest chopped down and the underlying square mined. I don't usually reforest; maybe in the end-stages of the game and only in cities with large amounts of waste, and only if I have lots of idle workers.

Irrigating grassland while under Despotism doesn't buy you anything until you switch to a higher form of government. I always mine grassland while under Despotism. Later I may change it to irrigation.

And finally, Factories vs Hospitals. I go for the Factory every time. Building a Hospital means more population and a quicker Factory build. Building a Factory means more production and a quicker Hospital build. But in a good productive city, I'll always want the Factory to boost production, and I might not want the Hospital.

 

[cracker]

Andre,

Welcome to Civfanatics, Shabbaman beat me to the draw but I would emphasize that the link he provided you probably contains info you can use.

You obviously have a great deal of interest in your new game so I hope you stick with us.

Read a lot first and then try play a few games that let you compare what you are doing with other more experienced players. You may want to try playing the QSC challenge or the Game of the Month that you can find in the GOTM forum and on the GOTM webpages.

Try not to post great strategy revelations as your way to meet new people, at least not until you read some of the existing strategy articles and visit the CivFanatics War Academy pages first.

Civ3 is not really an intuitive game and a number of your pieces of advice run excatly counter to recommended game play techniques. I qaurantee you that you will be greatly enlightened by readin ga few good article and a few good message threads and just soaking all the stuff up for a day or two.

 

[André Alfenaar]

I have read the (very elaborate!) article on forestration and all the other articles, too. I think Civ Fanatics is a better forum than Apolyton (you guys are more fanatical! )

The reason that I posted this topic was that I was suprised forestration was so strong, that it almost felt being too strong.

Also, contrary to common opinion, I think you had better end up irrigating all grasslands (no mines). If you think this would cost too much production (also in respect with the Golden Age) you had better keep the woods. I think this is something NEW! (Probably somebody else already thought this up, but I haven't come across such a statement, yet.)

Of course, pre-engineering you can only cut the forests and irrigate.

By the way, I am no greeny to Civ. I have been playing Civ all the way back to CIV I!

PS: I don't like to be doing things contrary to my intuition. If so, I think it is a flaw in the game.

 

[cracker]

Andre,

Again welcome to the forums.

Civ3 is a different game. There are some very non-intuitive things hard coded into the game so you will just have to learn where these retrain your mind to compensate.

I never played civ1 or civ2. From observation, these experiences give you perspective but may not add to your skill set because the rules have changed.

Trust me, you perception of the irrigating grasslands issue is off base in most cases.

 

[Zcylen]

yeah the forest/deforest technic can make you win a game.
once in a large map/continents my capitol was palced in the west coast.
by modern age I was in war with the chinese in the east side of my continent.
the cities were growing low and low production so, I send 40 slav...eh eerr...workers with low pay and I was able to build an entire fleet of 16 battlecrusiers and 6 carriers in 20 turns

 

[cgannon64]

Originally posted by André Alfenaar
I think I have found a way to boost production such a way that it feels more like an exploit.

The idea is that before irrigating plains & grasslands you should nearly always first put some forests on them and cut those and irrigate (no mines!). When your city is amid a low-production area of grassland you can think about postponing the woodcutting.

This was fixed in a patch, unless I am misunderstanding you. Any forests you plant DO NOT provide free shields. At least I think this was fixed. Now I'm confused!

CG

 

[cracker]

CG,

You are confused. Read the article. Then buy new shoes because you just chewed up one of yours.

 

[CivMonger]

i always irrigate grassland unless it has a bonus. mine those, with a railroad you get 3 production, and more food than a forest.

 

[cgannon64]

Originally posted by cracker
CG,

You are confused. Read the article. Then buy new shoes because you just chewed up one of yours.

Sorry about that, I understand it now. (And I have no shoes on to chew! ) I understand what you are saying, but I don't do it that often. Its really a matter of priority: do you want 2 food, 1 shield, or 1 food, 2 shield?

I personally mine grassland and irrigate plains. While it goes against my 'intuition', you must remember Civ is a game, and games aren't always 100% when it comes to realism. The game is realistic, IMO, in the Despotism penalties, so these two issues balance out in my mind.

About the hospital issue, its really a toss-up. Do you want to grow first, produce later, or produce first, grow later? It all balances out in the end, its just a matter of which you want first: food or shields. As usual.

CG

 

[Tassadar]

Irrigation or mine ?

Your closest goal is reaching size 12 city without no more excess food, so your shield production is optimize.

So it depend on the ground, sometime you need to irrigate non-bonus grassland to be able to work out mountain tile or forest tile, this is where we are able to master the game compare to a.i., i always see a.i. city size 12 merely producing 15 shiled while mine produce more than 20 most of the time, so i will rarely cut forest until i am able to plant it again.

You can get only 10 shiled per tile per game by cuting forest with newest patch.

 

[drolltroll]

Reading this thread brings up an intresting thought. Why can you only get ten shields once? Granted in much of the third world, once a forrest is cut, it's cut. But, with modern forrest management techniques in the US and I'm sure in some other countries as well, the same parcel of land is cut, reforested, and cut again, time after time. Maybe this is another new tech that could be researched (to simulate the fact that only more advanced civ's use it, but use it Georgia-Pacific and others do.

 

[Cartouche Bee]

Originally posted by drolltroll
Reading this thread brings up an intresting thought. Why can you only get ten shields once? Granted in much of the third world, once a forrest is cut, it's cut. But, with modern forrest management techniques in the US and I'm sure in some other countries as well, the same parcel of land is cut, reforested, and cut again, time after time. Maybe this is another new tech that could be researched (to simulate the fact that only more advanced civ's use it, but use it Georgia-Pacific and others do.

Because you could plant and harvest every two turns with enough workers. That produces 5 shields per turn average. Back in the first release this was one of the very early exploits that people discovered. It would have been nice if you could track if the tile had ever been harvested though and it would be nice if you could harvest every 10 turns or so.

[edit] actually you could plant and harvest every turn with enough workers and produce 10 shields per turn.

 

[drolltroll]

[QUOTE

Because you could plant and harvest every two turns with enough workers. That produces 5 shields per turn average. Back in the first release this was one of the very early exploits that people discovered. It would have been nice if you could track if the tile had ever been harvested though and it would be nice if you could harvest every 10 turns or so.

[edit] actually you could plant and harvest every turn with enough workers and produce 10 shields per turn.
]

It shouldn't be that hard to say a reforrested square must exist say 20 years, in gane time , before being able to cut down for the shield bonus. Just a thought.