Founding Fathers (and Mothers): Who is good and who is not

[Padje Dog]

Like in Civ 4, some Wonders are more wondeful than others. Same with Col2. I know each may be useful at a given time, but what I would like to hear from others is who are good and who are not, and why?

My opinion is that, as others have stated, Peter Miunet is great. The reduction in costs is significant. I like the Exploration guy that gives +25% defence in all cities as well.

Some of the ones that give like 2 indentured servents seem a bit lame, or the 1 extra caravel guy.

The +25% to tobacco/fur/cotton types are ok, that some need more points than others is a bugger.

The free stockade in each city is poor as a stockade can be knocked up pretty quickly.

 

[alexender000]

I love on of those last one that give the +1 food when producing 2... very useful.

 

[dalgo]

I like the ones that increase your speed. eg dragoons +1, wagons +1, scouts +1, ships +1 etc. They really help when you are playing on a huge map.

 

[Gliese 581]

Peter Minuit is really broken. He feels almost like The Great Library in civ1 or 2, or Adam Smith's in civ2.

I also like to get the +% convertion guys as I like to play the french but I don't know how effective the multiplier really is without some more data.
The +1 movement to galleons caravels and merchantmen is HUGE, this is a really good one imo.
It's funny how some of the best FFs are placed really early while some of the very latest ones seems to be incredibly bad.

I think you should get a chance to pick up a FF a second time if you say No the first as you can't really beeline a late FF the way it's currently set up without rejecting almost all of the others. To balance this it could be set to only be allowed once. This way you could get the +50% cotton, fur or sugar trade FF for example early on and specialize your economy to produce most of this commodity.
The way it works right now you're better of doing tobacco every time since it seems cigars are always the most highly valued at start and you can easily obtain the +25% tobacco FF really early without sacrificing to much, not to mention that tobacco (along with cotton) is the most easily attainable at least on standard a_new_world maps.

 

[obsolete]

I have to agree about that Caravel guy too! LOL, what was firaxis thinking? Waiting and spending a ton of points for someone who eventually shows up later in the game, and all he does is give you 1 Caravel!???

I also agree on the Free Stockade guy. Currently defense structures are broken, and until that is fixed, I just don't see any use for that. Even more-so if you are playing on normal speed and hence won't have a big empire then.

 

[lavos]

My two favourites are early exploration leaders. 50% less time to Europe and 2x chance to get treasure from ruins. I also love late military leaders with free unit upgrades. To me they make huge difference fighting Teh King. As for my favourite combo:

Thomas Paine (% hammers for tax rate)
+
Lord Baltimore (% crosses for tax rate)
+
Theocracy
+
50% tax rate
+
Cathedrals (FF with increased church-cathedrals construction helps)
=
Insane production without the need for lumber and carpenters



Then some leaders are just placed wrongly. Why would you need guys that give you +1 scout movement or -50% on land purchase in end game?

 

[dalgo]

There is an obvious FF missing too - William Brewster. He ensured no criminals appeared on the immigration dock, which is not such a problem here because now indian villages accept them for training, but he also allowed you to choose which of the three available immigrants you wanted. Surely this attribute would have been more useful in the game than a single Caravel for example?

 

[lavos]

bah, single Caravel FTW!

 

[Gliese 581]

There is an obvious FF missing too - William Brewster. He ensured no criminals appeared on the immigration dock, which is not such a problem here because now indian villages accept them for training, but he also allowed you to choose which of the three available immigrants you wanted. Surely this attribute would have been more useful in the game than a single Caravel for example?

Brewster is still around but less impressive in this game.

 

[obsolete]

Sometimes I feel like taking one like the +25% bonus to tobacco leaves, or whatever just to prevent it from getting in the hands of an AI. But then I realize the AI's are never a threat to you anyhow, so what's the point, haha! But I take it anyway cause I always have more points than I can spend, and since you cant go back to spend/waste points if you miss it, might as well take em while you can I guess.

50% speed to europe? I think that's just a middle teir Father. Hell, I get that in a few turns by default anyway, without really doing anything!

 

[pvt chaos]

I miss the bonus from Cortes from the original, where your treasure would be transported free of charge. Leon gives a bonus for finding treasure but no free transport.

 

[obsolete]

It would be nice to have a Father give a Free Galleon for this (and early too).

But a Free Caravel, late.... and expensive? Where do they come up with such idiotic ideas? How can issues like this NOT get discussed during the beta?

 

[JohnCataldo]

I've found that I generally prefer the abosolute bonuses compared to the percentage bonuses, but maybe I'm just not getting my taxes high enough or my production is too low for the percentage to help a lot (i.e. I'm just bad at this game!)

That is, I usually prefer the +3 production per city compared to +% tax rate to production, and similarly for bells, etc.

 

[pvt chaos]

It would be nice to have a Father give a Free Galleon for this (and early too).

But a Free Caravel, late.... and expensive? Where do they come up with such idiotic ideas? How can issues like this NOT get discussed during the beta?

Beta tester to beta manager : Sir, we have to discuss the Free caravel issue.
Beta manager : Free caravel issue ? What is it, is it a bug ?
Beta tester : No sir, its not. Its about the player getting a free caravel by means of a Founding Father. We thought about it and we would rather see the player get a free gal
Beta manager (interrupts) : A free caravel !?! Something that the player gets for free cant be an issue, next problem please.
Beta tester : But, but sir ...
Beta manager : I SAID next problem
Beta tester :