freight
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BlueMonday
Can I Kick It?
It's the modern equivalent of Caravans. It moves faster, has a higher defense value, and increases revenue. If you're not using caravans or freight in your game, you might as well shoot yourself in the foot. Trade development is a necessity for success on high level games of civ.
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<FONT COLOR="blue">You move like I want to, and sing like your eyes do.</FONT c>
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<FONT COLOR="blue">You move like I want to, and sing like your eyes do.</FONT c>
RedWolf
Deity
So if you make caravan trade routes early on inthe game.. is it worth replacing those trade routes with ones made by freight unis later? (because you say it increases revenue)
Ordoes it not matter?
Andu Indorin
Retired Druid
I use freight all the time! I especially like to use to fund my wars as a democracy; since I have to keep the luxury tax somewhat high, I make up for the lost income by running freight into enemy cities just prior to conquest.
No, replacing a caravan route with a freight doesn't increase the per turn rate of arrows in city; however, you can still receive the one-time bonus in terms cash/science.
No, replacing a caravan route with a freight doesn't increase the per turn rate of arrows in city; however, you can still receive the one-time bonus in terms cash/science.
One thing that is often overlooked is Freight's excellence in reconnaisance. Dumping a transport load of Freight on your next enemy's shores prior to an invasion is a superb way of mapping their territory. Because they move 2 not 1, if the enemy has missed railroad anywhere or has linked cities only by road in places, they can still get the job done quickly. And the AI will not generally kill your Caravan or Freight, and repatriation is not an option (unlike spies or diplomats).
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Az
Emperor
Are you sure. They do attack MY freight......
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BlueMonday
Can I Kick It?
Yeah, if the civ is hostile they will destroy your trade units. That's one thing I don't like about civ 2 -the enemy treats caravans and freight like they are threatening military units.
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<FONT COLOR="blue">Oh Danny Boy, the pines...the pines are calling. From glenn to glenn and down the mountainside.
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[This message has been edited by BlueMonday (edited May 27, 2001).]
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<FONT COLOR="blue">Oh Danny Boy, the pines...the pines are calling. From glenn to glenn and down the mountainside.
The summer's gone and all the roses are dying...</FONT c>
[This message has been edited by BlueMonday (edited May 27, 2001).]
OK OK - I stand corrected!
Yes of course it depends on your relations with them (their attitude) and - I suspect - your reputation. I'm probably speaking from personal experience only. The reason is that a civ that needs reconnaisance is usually a large one, and a large one I have already pacified diplomatically first so they are not a threat until I choose them to be. Therefore my freight go untouched.
shadowdale
CFC Drunkard
Well that's not entirely correct BlueMonday!!! I actually didn't use any kind of caravans/freights for either trade routs or helping me build wonders - before I came here to CFC. And I did ok in my games even then!!!
But now that I have learned the true value of the trade routs I wouldn't play a game without them............
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Håkan Eriksson, Stormerne, vladmir_illych_lenin, Cunobelin Of Hippo, Bluemonday.
Supernaut
Prince
Oh yeah, and you don't do the same to them?
Magnus
Diplocat
Freight/Caravans are critical. They build wonders 1:1, they make money, they add to trade, they boost science, they can scout...
I can't build enough of them!
I can't build enough of them!
BlueMonday
Can I Kick It?
No, I always welcome trade from other civs. Whether I'm at war with them or not.
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<FONT COLOR="blue">Oh Danny Boy, the pines...the pines are calling. From glenn to glenn and down the mountainside.
The summer's gone and all the roses are dying...</FONT c>
Magnus
Diplocat
I agree with BlueMonday, I won't immediately destroy a foreign caravan - UNLESS it gets 'lost' and only serves to block my roads -
- then its toast!
NightReaper
Chieftain
- Joined
- May 26, 2001
- Messages
- 27
I couldn't do without freight. I set all of my cities to it and in one I start a wonder in a few turns I am finished.
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Reaper of the Night
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Reaper of the Night
Supernaut
Prince
If you look in the War Academy section, under Scrolls of Ancient Wisdom, some one has worked out the equations for the value of a trade route - freight makes a big difference to the number of arrows, though it doesn't say if replacing a caravan route with a freight route has any effect (but I would have thought it does). I didn't realise that having airports in both cities increases trade - I shall take advantage of that in the later stages of the game. Being on different continents makes a difference as well, and someone suggested the tactic of having a city on a small island - you can send your caravans from there to relatively close cities of your own, and still get a good result (and an island city will probably have lots of sea squares and so lots of trade, which increases the value of routes). But the value of the one-time payment is not affected by any of these factors - it's simply a function of the amount of trade in each city, and demand.
As to killing the AI's caravans, I find that they rarely actually form a trade route, they just wander around getting in the way (and scouting!). I also get very annoyed with them in the late game, when I have railways everywhere, and they just zoom around for ages per turn, generally across the same three squares several times. So now I tend to kill on sight, though I'll sometimes give them the benefit of the doubt if they seem to be heading straight to one of my cities.
[This message has been edited by Supernaut (edited May 30, 2001).]
As to killing the AI's caravans, I find that they rarely actually form a trade route, they just wander around getting in the way (and scouting!). I also get very annoyed with them in the late game, when I have railways everywhere, and they just zoom around for ages per turn, generally across the same three squares several times. So now I tend to kill on sight, though I'll sometimes give them the benefit of the doubt if they seem to be heading straight to one of my cities.
[This message has been edited by Supernaut (edited May 30, 2001).]
In respect to killing enemy freight:
1) They are the enemy right?
2) A caravan or freight goes from city A in civilisation 1 to city B in civilisation 2. Civilisation 1 and city A getter bigger benefits from the transaction that civilisation 2 and city B. Why give the opposition an even break, let alone a benefit? If you want the trade send your freight to the opposition, get the trade arrows and the cash/science bonus!
[This message has been edited by Karlsen (edited May 31, 2001).]
1) They are the enemy right?
2) A caravan or freight goes from city A in civilisation 1 to city B in civilisation 2. Civilisation 1 and city A getter bigger benefits from the transaction that civilisation 2 and city B. Why give the opposition an even break, let alone a benefit? If you want the trade send your freight to the opposition, get the trade arrows and the cash/science bonus!
[This message has been edited by Karlsen (edited May 31, 2001).]
duke o' york
It don't mean a thing....
Has anyone else had trade supplies/demands that changed throughout the game and lost trade routes because of this? I only usually build freights, but now I started early with caravans and fully connected my capital to other cities with the right supplies/demands. By the time I had discovered freight most of the resources they were supplying/demanding had changed and my trade routes had disappeared. I realise that others will have noticed this because someone once asked how to supply a city with uranium, and you never ever get that at the start of the game. I got more benefits from each route so this isn't really a complaint, and it does seem realistic, but strange for an AI. I just got richer though!
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in vino veritas
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in vino veritas
Andu Indorin
Retired Druid
duke o' york:
I must admit, I've never seen an established trade route "lost" when supply/demand changes. Perhaps it's a version specific bug. What version of Civ is yours? Mine's 2.42 Classic. If your's is too, then I'll have to start keeping an eye out for that. Thanks for the post.
I must admit, I've never seen an established trade route "lost" when supply/demand changes. Perhaps it's a version specific bug. What version of Civ is yours? Mine's 2.42 Classic. If your's is too, then I'll have to start keeping an eye out for that. Thanks for the post.
starlifter
Deity
- Joined
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- Messages
- 4,210
A trade route does not "dissappear" over time. Once established, it will remain throughout the game, and I begin establishing some trade routes in BC or early AD. However, it can be (and often is) replaced by a newer trade route (at the instant a new, higher value route is established).
If the destination city is destroyed, the route will dissappear. One day, i decided to play an OCC conquer-the-world strategy, and I decided to require that I could never capture a city... only destroy it. As the enemy cities died, I had happiness problems in my city because the trade routes dissappeared as I destroyed the destination cities. A switch to Communism helped somewhat.
Also, a food route will replace a trade route (Civ 2 only retains 3 routes). Same happiness caveat.
But in summary, the change of commodities do not remove the route, at least in Civ 2 MGE... I use hundreds of routes in a game, and watch them...
On a different subject, the Civ 2 MGE AI likes to attack freight and caravans. I use this fact to start a war under Republic or Democracy sometimes... they are just too juicy a target for some of the hostile AI's to pass up... and they sneak attack, and bingo... war with no revolution. But the downside is you can't control the exact timing of the AI's sneak attack...
Like Shadowdale, I began playing Civ 2 and had never used Freight and Caravans, and thought they were too worthless to mess with. At one time, I had no idea how powerful trade was. But suffice it to say that when you deliver 3 to 10 freight each turn, and net up to 3,500 gold and 3,500 science for the trouble for EACH freight (late game, demanded cargo Uranium/Oil with airports)... it makes the lowly frieght the most powerful unit in the game, from a certain point of view. 50 shields = 7,000+ gold/beakers... not a bad return...
If the destination city is destroyed, the route will dissappear. One day, i decided to play an OCC conquer-the-world strategy, and I decided to require that I could never capture a city... only destroy it. As the enemy cities died, I had happiness problems in my city because the trade routes dissappeared as I destroyed the destination cities. A switch to Communism helped somewhat.
Also, a food route will replace a trade route (Civ 2 only retains 3 routes). Same happiness caveat.
But in summary, the change of commodities do not remove the route, at least in Civ 2 MGE... I use hundreds of routes in a game, and watch them...
On a different subject, the Civ 2 MGE AI likes to attack freight and caravans. I use this fact to start a war under Republic or Democracy sometimes... they are just too juicy a target for some of the hostile AI's to pass up... and they sneak attack, and bingo... war with no revolution. But the downside is you can't control the exact timing of the AI's sneak attack...
Like Shadowdale, I began playing Civ 2 and had never used Freight and Caravans, and thought they were too worthless to mess with. At one time, I had no idea how powerful trade was. But suffice it to say that when you deliver 3 to 10 freight each turn, and net up to 3,500 gold and 3,500 science for the trouble for EACH freight (late game, demanded cargo Uranium/Oil with airports)... it makes the lowly frieght the most powerful unit in the game, from a certain point of view. 50 shields = 7,000+ gold/beakers... not a bad return...
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