From Republic to Monarchy

[Caligola]

Is reaching Monarchy a real step up in the game? I just realized that by switching to the regime of Monarchy, the level of corruption increases, although work is performed at 100%. Is this a real gain? And what does that 100% rate represents? Whose work are we talking about?

 

[scoutsout]

Well let's see...this wasn't your first post...but for good measure, welcome to CFC!

On Monarchy and Republic: You are correct to point out the commerce and corruption advantages of Republic over Monarchy.

The 'worker efficiency' thing refers to the number of turns it will take one of your workers to finish a given taks (build a road, etc.)

One thing you didn't mention is the version of the game you are playing... C3C Republic is quite different from Vanilla...

Basically, it boils down to this: Monarchy is for serious warmongering. When I say 'serious' warmongering... let me add some perspective: I've been accused of being a warmonger, and I normally prefer Republic.

Monarchy is great in the late ancient ages/early middle ages. The unit support and lack of war-weariness are nice. But by the time you reach the late middle ages, a monarchy will struggle mightily to keep up in technology...

If you switch to Republic early, be prepared for a recession... but Republic is arguably the 'best' government in the game, from the standpoint of winning by any victory condition. Learn to manage a Republic well, and you will better understand why you might want to be in a different government and when to pursue that other government.

 

[IbnSina]

Yes, as Scout says, Monarchy is for an Always War game in which you plan to win fairly early. If you're not going to be at war every turn of the game, and/or if the game will last into the late Industrial Age, go for republic - you'll need the money.

 

[WackenOpenAir]

Yes, i think ALWAYS war is what makes the difference. When you can never make peace to solve some war weariness, monarchy could be usefull. Other than that, even when you play so agressive that from 1000BC onwards, all your cities make nothing but millitairy units and you conquer the world before 500AD, republic is still better.

In original and PTW, republic was much stronger in the beginning when you just swiched to it and monarchy slowly catched up as you conquered cities to provide free unit upkeep (while not benefiting the extra commerce due to corruption)
In C3C, repulblic is sometimes difficult in the beginning, but starts to grow stronger as your cities grow in population (more extra commerce, more free upkeep at size 7), you build some marketplaces (to enhance the extra commerce), you connect some luxes (lowering the lux slider and giving the commerce to marketplaces for even more gold) and you conquer corrupt cities for free upkeep.

 

[bingen]

Is reaching Monarchy a real step up in the game? I just realized that by switching to the regime of Monarchy, the level of corruption increases, although work is performed at 100%. Is this a real gain? And what does that 100% rate represents? Whose work are we talking about?

Do you mean Fascism? Monarchy does not have faster workers.

100% increase means twice as fast.

 

[Civkin]

While we're on the topic of governments, is there any point in switching to feudalism? Of course anything is a step up from despotism, but feudalism really confuses me. The way I understand it, feudalism has these effects on upkeep/maintenance:

1. Every town can support 5 units, cities 2 and metropolises 1.
2. Any unit NOT supported in this way requires an upkeep of 3gpt, not 1.
3. Maintenance is free for all city improvements.

I'm just wondering if feudalism is a viable way, in limited situations, to save a whole lot of money. But it's clearly not a warmongering gov't. And what would be the point of all that extra money if you can only pop rush things...?

 

[Tomoyo]

Umm... maintainence is not free anymore. Feudalism is only good for supporting huge armies when your cities are small, like in a FRFR game.

 

[Caligola]

oK....... I am playing PTW. I switched from Monarchy to Republic and have been a warmongerer from the beginning of the game (I always play the Romans, especially because I read a lot books on that wonderful civilization). I just discovered Engineering. I am about to destroy the civilization of the Indians and then we'll see what comes next. I have 2 more cities to go to destroy the Indians. Should I revert back to Monarchy? And if so, how do you do that?

Thanks for the great advice everyone!

Senatus Populusque Romae!

 

[MikeH]

You can revolt at any time by going to the F1 screen and clicking on the government type at the top of the screen. Your advisor will ask if you are sure. Personally I wouldn't switch if you've nearly beaten the Indians, it sounds like you may be due for a perod of peace and the extra cash from Republic will make it easier for you to research or buy the rest of the MA technologies. Also the Romans are not a religious civ. so revolting will cost you from 4 to 9 turns of anarchy where nothing gets produced or researched. With non-religious civs, most people just revolt once into republic and stay there for the rest of the game, although arguments can be made for switching later to Communism for warmongering or Democracy for peaceful building.

 

[scoutsout]

@MikeH: Your advice to Caligola is fundamentally sound (i.e. nothing 'wrong' with it). If I may... pick a few nits:

You can revolt at any time by going to the F1 screen and...

Within the context of this game, you are correct... but just in case a brand new player is reading this... you must have discovered a new government type in order to revolt. (If all you know is despotism, you can't revolt...) This next nit is something you may not know....

...so revolting will cost you from 4 to 9 turns of anarchy where nothing gets produced or researched. (emphasis added)

You may not be aware of this, but you can keep a modest amount of research going in anarchy... by hiring scientists in cities with surplus food. This can work nicely if you alread know Monarchy and are working towards Republic with a non-religious civ. Simply revolt one turn before you know Republic and hire some scientists. You can discover Republic while in Anarchy, and when you come out of Anarchy, you can choose Republic.

 

[MikeH]

Yes, sorry Scout I did realiise that you can research with scientists during anarchy, allthough I must admit the trick with revolting early and using the scientists to finish Republic hadn't occurred to me. Is there any reason why you shouldn't revolt 3 turns before you can discover Republic at minimum research, given that 4 turns appears to be the minimum anarchy period for a non-religious civ?

 

[budweiser]

@MikeH: This next nit is something you may not know....You may not be aware of this, but you can keep a modest amount of research going in anarchy... by hiring scientists in cities with surplus food. This can work nicely if you alread know Monarchy and are working towards Republic with a non-religious civ. Simply revolt one turn before you know Republic and hire some scientists. You can discover Republic while in Anarchy, and when you come out of Anarchy, you can choose Republic.

Good god! Consider how the american colonists revolted in 1775 but our current form of democracy was not complete. Our leaders (Thomas Jefferson,Benjamin Franklin, etc) continued working on that in our cities while the nation was in anarchy. That's almost like what happened.

 

[Pentium]

Someone (a famous person) was asked which is better, monarchy or republic (in real life). And he said:

These two lovers are neither pretty enough nor good enough to fight for.

 

[punkbass2000]

Sounds like Voltaire.

 

[Offa]

"The best government is a benevolent tyranny tempered by an occasional assassination."

- Voltaire

Looks like he favoured despotism with pop rushes. A bit out of date with the new patches though.

 

[The Last Conformist]

I find Rep the gov't to use in just about every situation except Always War and being a huge late-game civ not about to win pretty soon.

 

[gunkulator]

My take on the gov'ts:

Despotism: Great unit support. Pop rush is better at the beginning of the game since you have no money. Horrid corruption and the tile penalty are its demise once cities start to get large. Don't be too quick to leave or you may find yourself running a deficit.

Monarchy: For the serious war monger only. I mean the Always War strategy. OTOH, if you get it from an AI and have a bunch of cities over size 6 and you're religious and you're not ready for Republic, by all means switch.

Republic: Quite simply the best gov't in the game (in c3c). Decent unit support for cities. Paid labor plus the commerce bonus are the ideal combination. Corruption far below Despotism. WW is manageable if you keep wars short.

Feudalism: Pretty much worthless. Maybe, if you're religious and for some reason you have a lot of close packed tiny cities - but why would you want this when the Middle Ages has Banks and Universities and very desirable wonders that are way too expensive to build in small towns? Also, units start to get pricey: 60 for muskets, 70 for knights, 40 for cannon, 80 for cavalry.

Democracy: You need 2 optional techs for this, plus the lost turns in anarchy: That's about 16 turns of wasted/lost research. No thanks. I'll take Magnetism, Steam Power and Military Tradition a the end of the Middle Ages/start of Industrial. No unit support. Horrible WW. Occasionally you can get this from the AI in the Industrial Age once you've traded for all their gold and luxuries. I would only switch to this if I had a continent all to myself and had no plans for war for a long time. If religious, it is a good way to get/keep a tech lead in the Industrial Age and have great productive capacity. I sometimes use it to get to Tanks quickly.

Fascism: Again a gov't for a specific scenario: small/medium empire with large cities/metros AND you plan on conquering the world. Domination is harder with Fascism because of the culture penalty. You're better off razing captured cities. Unfortunately you need 2 optional techs for this, however one of them is Nationalism which you can often trade for.

Communism: Great for large, far flung empires. Allows all cities to be productive. Good for conquest and domination. Again, you need 2 optional techs, but Communism is useful anyway because it allows police stations. To get full advantage of Communism, you want Espionage for SPHQ. Another optional tech but Espionage also allows Intelligence Agency which is useful even if you only use it for the F3 screen.

 

[Desertsnow]

As a rule, I prefer Republic over Monarchy for the economic efficiency; I tend to go broke in Monarchy, though I'll revolt to Democracy as soon as I can from either. Monarchy is better than Republic though, if the game turns out to be more bellicose than I expected (I never intentionally go for a warlike game, but sometimes it just turns out that way), and in at least one particularly warlike game I had to revolt to Monarchy from Democracy because the natives were getting restless at home and I hadn't researched or otherwise acquired any other government styles yet (though I'm sure there are enough other players here who know how that feels). Bah.
--DS

 

[The Last Conformist]

Communism: Great for large, far flung empires. Allows all cities to be productive. Good for conquest and domination.

The chief problem I see with Communism is that if I've got the large, far-flung empire needed to make commieness attractive, I've basically won the game already. No particular reason not to continue in Rep till the game recognizes that fact.

 

[gunkulator]

and in at least one particularly warlike game I had to revolt to Monarchy from Democracy because the natives were getting restless at home and I hadn't researched or otherwise acquired any other government styles yet (though I'm sure there are enough other players here who know how that feels). Bah.
--DS

DS brings up a good point. It is always wroth getting Monarchy sometime in the Middle Ages. You never know when you may be forced to fight a long drawn out war. Pre-Navigation/Pre-Magnetism wars often cut off your trade routes for luxuries. This can leave your Republic civ in a very unhappy state. You need something to switch to.

The chief problem I see with Communism is that if I've got the large, far-flung empire needed to make commieness attractive, I've basically won the game already. No particular reason not to continue in Rep till the game recognizes that fact

Also true. However, if you are dealing with a Killer AI on another continent loaded with gobs of troops, you will quickly max out on WW. Land your troops an the AI's continent and be prepared for that inevitable barrage of attacks. Recall that each attack, even if you win, causes 2 WW points. I've gone from zero WW to the max in a single turn.