Frustrating....Fighters Scramble...

[IamRonin]

I trust everyone has had this happen to them before and I think it is a flaw in the game.

A Bomber comes to attack a city of mine with SAM Battery. City has 2 fortified Mech Infantries (full health) and 1 Stealth Fighter.

Instead of the Mech Inf's defending the city gaining SAM and fortification bonus, the Stealth Fighter scrambles to defend the city.

The stupid thing is it uses the Stealth Fighter ( or any other fighter's) defensive capabilities with no apparent bonuses. Consequently the Bomber always kills the Stealth Fighter.

Either one of 2 things should happen in my opinion.

1) The best defensive unit (taking into consideration bonuses and ability should defend citywhen attacked by Bombers or Fighters.

or

2) If fighters are in the city at the time of attack and the fighters DO scramble, it should really count as a COUNTER-ATTACK. As if the fighter is attacking the Bombers! This is a good incentive of have fighters in cities prone to regular aerial assaults.

The way it is now it seriously defeats the purpose of Fighters defending home cities.

Also, how does the system determine when or not fighters ctually scramble? Sometimes it does sometimes not.

Comments appreciated.

Regards

R

 

[la fayette]

1) A SAM inside a city doubles the defence strength of the defending unit.

2) A fighter inside a city gets a x4 scrambling bonus (which means that you have been very unlucky if losing a scrambling stealth fighter)

3) More details here:

http://apolyton.net/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=22856

 

[ElephantU]

Stealth Fighter Def=4, scramble bonus=16, Vet=24. Bomber Attack=12, possible Vet=18. So 12-16 and 18-24 favors Stealth Fighter, but if you've neglected Vet status you could be facing 18-16, still fairly close.

MechInf Def=6, SAM Bonus=12, Vet=18. Another difference is that HP=3 (compared to 2 for air units), but FP=1 (compared to 2).

Particularly for the modern military units, Vet status makes a big difference.

 

[Stegyre]

I don't question the numbers, but my own experience more closely mirrors IamRonin's than it does the supposed mathematical superiority. (Even though I always make my stealth fighters vets.) Although sometimes I win, my fighters lose far too often against bombers. (And that's regular bombers: I don't usually let the AI get stealth.) Any thoughts that there is a possible bug, here?
(I typically play 2.42.)

 

[ElephantU]

The comparison values are within a quarter point of being 1 to 1, so your combat results should not heavily favor either side but slightly favor the defender. I always suspect bias when looking at these kinds of things: I don't notice successful defense so often as I notice damaging loss. Try keeping a written log for a while.

 

[la fayette]

Originally posted by Stegyre
Although sometimes I win, my fighters lose far too often against bombers. (And that's regular bombers: I don't usually let the AI get stealth.) Any thoughts that there is a possible bug, here?
(I typically play 2.42.)

No bug.
Those combat results have been tested hundreds of times.
The odds are:
- even when a regular fighter scrambles against a regular bomber of same status (attack = 12, defence = 3*4, if both non-vet)
- always in favour of the scrambling vet stealth fighter (defence =6*4).

Here is my advice:
Remember that your main objective is NOT to protect all units inside your city. Your main objective is to destroy your foe.
Therefore what you should do is stack cheap ground units (e.g. riflemen) + SAM in your cities on the front line. If the bomber wins, it usually gets red and you destroy it very easily with any fighter coming from another city.
Balance sheet: at worst you have lost 40 shields and your foe has lost 120

 

[Duke of Marlbrough]

It can always be tested by posting a save and others can look at it. Perhaps there is an issue with your rules.txt being 'off'??

 

[Pariah]

One could always re-run the same turn, with the same units in the same place, several times. If the defending fighters consistently lost, then there's some sort of glitch or AI cheating going on.

 

[raven15]

I will have to agree with IamRonin and stegyre, my fighters seem to lose a disproportinate number of times, even with vet. stealth scramble. I always prefer to take them out with mech. inf., which rarely lose.

But I only consider the losses in my thinking, not the circumstances. Even a damaged fighter scrambles over mech inf. until it is very red, and almost always loses the second time for sure, even against regular bombers, I think(I too try to keep my enemies stealth free). But mech inf. seem to ususally win 2 or 3 against regular bombers.

But all I know for sure is that I always try to keep my stealth fighters in cities behind my front lines, so they can attack my attackers and not loose.

thinking... the AI gets a bonus in harder skill levels, correct? That would explain it...

 

[Pariah]

Originally posted by raven15
thinking... the AI gets a bonus in harder skill levels, correct? That would explain it...

I'm not sure if it does. Sure, the AIs are more aggressive at the harder levels, and technical progress slower - but I usually find combat much the same. Maybe I've been on Deity too long...

 

[BC Horizon]

I have seen this, myself sometimes. It was never a problem when I upgraded to MGE, but the Stealth Fighters were losing a lot more when I still had 2.42. My suggestion, crank up the Stealth Fighter's defence strength by a point or so in the Rules.txt. That basically eliminated the problem. (Yeah yeah yeah, so it's a little bit of bending the rules... pfft)

 

[jadelicia]

I've never really taken into account the numerical stats. I just noticed the same patterns as some of you have noticed with fighters being attacked, so I just assumed they were better units at attacking than defending. When I've attacked bombers with fighters, very rarely do I lose. However, if the bomber attacks, the fighter usually loses...I dunno....that's just what I've seen in my games. I've just assumed that fighters are better at offense than defense, though.

 

[IamRonin]

I know its way too late.

But it would hav made more sense if when a Fighter scrambles it acts as a free attack on the attacking bomber.

That means the Bomber is the one defending.

Is there scrambling in Civ III?

Regards

R

 

[The Person]

In Civ3 you can set fighters in "defensive mode" or something like that...