G-III Delta Dog

[Aerinon]

Agreed, culture doubling isn't as important as mass cities. The only real doubles that are practical to count on are temples and libraries. ToA would miss out on those temples doubles but you are going to build libs first anyways... especially for SCI civs. Churning out 40sh libs is the best bet for culture doubles. In my game, doubling was a bonus if it occurred. I certainly never planned for it.

 

[DWetzel]

Well, I'm having some trouble with the end of game file, but I'll be setting the bar at 1210 AD.

 

[RFHolloway]

Culture doubling is really only important for libraries (and temples if you don't go for ToA)

The difficulty is in valueing the cultural builds correctly. Because the end date varies it is difficult to assess how much culture you actually get from any particular build. A simplifying technique I used for analysis was to consider how much culture a particular build would generate by 1250AD (at least until the likely win date became clear - by then it is often too late anyway.) This helped me evaluate the benefits of cash rushing verses balancing maintainance costs, and also helped me with when to expand verses when to build culture.

This was of course before I was using feudalism.

 

[PrinceMyshkin]

I've submitted an 800AD victory using the Celts with a score of 8650.

I had gone through about 20 maps trying the Arabs without getting an SGL before I decided to give the Celts a try. My strategy was to follow Marsden's excellent model with a few tweaks.

Settings were 60%pangaea, normal, temperate, 5byo. Rivals were Germany, Greece, Byzantines, Korea and Ottomans. All scientific civs for the age change techs and the best chance to get alphabet in trade. I set ai aggression to max as I've found this most useful as I planned to do more warring than usual this game. Barbs were set to sedentary hoping to pop an early settler even though we're not expansionist. Hopefully, this would also speed up the tech pace in the AA as other ai's popped techs. I also had ai respawn on to get 100 gold and a worker in peace deals. I planned from the beginning to rush settlers with cash in Republic and use the Gallic Swordsmen to capture ai towns as well.

Before I even fired up MapFinder, I gave this rather poor start (by HoF standards) a try to test this strategy a bit.

There's another game to the NW and a floodplain to the SE. I popped warrior code from the hut and built a couple of exploring warriors and a settler while researching mysticism. The huts soon payed off as I popped a settler in 3400BC founding Alesia in 3200BC by a grassland cow and some floodplains 3-tiles west of Entremont. Contact with the Ottomans came in 3200BC and Germany in 3100BC the same turn mysticism finished with no SGL. I traded for bw, masonry and wc and set research to alphabet. After Entremont built its settler, I decided to skip chopping the games and use the production here to start the Pyramids as two SGL's seemed unlikely and Alesia was good for workers and settlers.

In 2800BC, I made contact with Korea and traded for the rest of alphabet and the wheel and started on writing. Writing was learned in 2190BC and I traded for iron working revealing iron just north of Alesia. CoL was learned in 1700BC and traded for hbr as I went for philo to complete the republic sling-shot. I was running out of any hope for this game when this always welcome sight happened.

I immediately traded for polytheism and mathematics and used the SGL to rush the ToA in Richborough in 1500BC the same turn the Pyramids completed in Entremont starting my GA. The first two turns of GA were wasted as I then revolted becoming a republic in 1425BC. Entremont built a barracks and Gallic Swordsmen in the GA. I completed research on literature in 1325BC even though Korea had popped it from a hut 2-turns earlier. Currency was completed in 1175BC and traded for mapmaking the same turn Greece was contacted. Construction was completed in 1025BC as the GA ended and the Celts entered the MA and the Byzantines were contacted. Gifting up the ai's didn't work too well as four civs got engineering, while the Ottomans were the only civ with feudalism. This made it impossible to trade for feudalism and forced me to research monotheism, but it wasn't all bad as I was then able to build more Gallic Swordsmen. In 1000BC, I started my first war with Germany capturing two towns.

At this point, I only have 16 towns, 10 workers and 4 settlers with 2 of the towns courtesy of Germany. This is a rather slow start for this type of game, but I did have 12 Gallics and more on the way to help add to my town total. Another nice thing is I've connected two luxuries and about to add ivory and dyes. Spices are just west of Germany and silks are just to the south in Ottoman lands. The Oracle is also in nearby Istanbul which should prove helpful in eliminating happiness issues.

Research was completed on monotheism in 750BC and research was turned off. Germany was down to two cities which I was waiting to grow before capture while other Gallics were sent to deal with the Ottomans starting war with them in 710BC. Entremont completed SoZ in 670BC and the Oracle captured in Istanbul while three barracks towns continued to make Gallics. Other towns were busy making workers and settlers and cash was used to rush as many units as possible.

The Greeks decided to sneak attack in 550BC capturing a town, but I already had troops on the way to them and got it back the next turn. I got my first 100 gold and a worker in peace as Germany respawned in 390BC. The Hanging Gardens was completed in 330BC and I finally traded for feudalism and turned research back on. Peace was also made with the Ottomans for a town this turn giving me 66 towns at this point. Chivalry was learned in 270BC, invention in 170BC and gunpowder in 50BC when research was turned off for good. We had also made peace with the Greeks gaining 3 towns and reached 100 cities. Entremont completed Knight's Templar the same turn. I started yet another war with Korea in 10AD and reached 111 towns, 75 workers, 22 settlers. At this point I was at 286cpt and 7472 total culture almost all of which was due to the ToA.

I decided to stay in Republic until I had produced/rushed enough settlers to reach 200+ towns. I finally reached this point in 190AD and revolted becoming a feudalism in 230AD ready to finally start the whipping phase of the game. I was still at war with Korea and had just got my first MGL. Here's a screenshot of the empire at this point.

Stats at this point were 168 cities, 85 workers (about .5 per city) and 37 settlers. I was still 320 tiles from the dom limit of 1471. I was making 427cpt with a total culture of 11,038 for a CAII estimated win date of 1685AD. Besides the temples from the ToA and wonders, the empire had only 12 libraries, 6 cathedrals and 2 colosseums. I had no markets yet and only 4 barracks as non-culture builds.

In my other feudal 100K games, I had whipped cities down to 1 pop for 20 shields every time they reached size2. This, of course, means a 3 turn wait for growth if the town is working an irrigated grassland for an agri civ. This time, I let cities grow to size 3 before whipping away 1-pop for 20 shields. An agri civ working 2 irrigated grasslands has +5 food and grows in 2 turns. This means it takes 8-turns to whip either a library or cathedral in a city able to use these tiles. If a town could only work one irrigated grassland it takes 12-turns to whip these buildings. A town with no grassland or tundra town takes 16 or 20 turns respectively. There is of course forest chops and worker add-ins which can also speed these rushes.

In 340AD, the Byzantines dow'ed and I eliminated them by 600AD gaining 100 gold and a worker as they respawned once before being destroyed. The Ottos and Greeks also provided 100 gold each and a worker, but I let them stay to have some civs to hold back my borders. As I approached the dom limit it was necessary to gift some towns to Korea and the Greeks to hold back my border expansion and prevent tripping the dom limit. I averaged adding about 45-50cpt to the empire each turn during the feudal rush. 1000cpt was reached in 360AD with 213 towns and an 1130AD estimated win date.

At 500 AD, I was at 220 towns, 1565cpt and 38170 total culture for an estimated win date of 900AD only 44 tiles from the dom limit. By 600AD, my treasury was in trouble as I had 315 gold losing 179gpt. Many towns were finished with their culture builds, though and were put on wealth and tax-men hired to always stay afloat and even reach the black. By now, I had also completed markets in the core to provide a boost. 2000cpt and 238 towns were reached in 630AD and I started adding in workers to speed builds.

It appeared I was going to get an 810AD victory as I settled my 246th and last town in 720AD. Some calculation showed that CivAssist was wrong and I rushed workers for 2 pop. from several towns on wealth for add-ins to speed up some culture builds to just make the 800AD victory mark with 100,133 total culture and 2442cpt. Only 34 towns still had culture left to build, mostly colosseums. I found this quote in the spoiler by Bismark at the end amusing.

Spoiler :

It seems to me that settlers are the best culture build you can make with the ToA as each are 2cpt with the potential for 8 more. I enjoyed warring as a means to gain towns as well, but its not the only way to do 100K. As always, best of luck to anyone trying the gauntlet.

 

[DWetzel]

Dayum. Nice.

I may have to give this a better try. If that's possible. I don't think I'm beating this though!

 

[AutomatedTeller]

celts are a great civ for this, particularly at this level.

I don't think I've done a 100K as another civ.

 

[Marsden]

Well done.

 

[Mathias]

Impressive. I have not completed a solo 100K game myself, although I played a couple of variant 100K SGs. The task just seemed too daunting, as I rarely complete any game without limited cities. However, I have recently submitted my first HOF game - a new #1 in Standard/Monarch/Domination - so I have decided to at least give this a shot. If I can beat PrinceMyshkin in domination, why shouldn't I be able to beat him in 100K? My first attempt didn't have an SGL, so no early ToA, but I think I did well enough with 23 cities, three settlers, and The Pyramids at 1000 BC.

 

[PrinceMyshkin]

Thanks, everybody. While I feel good about the results of that game I agree with Mathias that it can be beat and the game is very similar to a domination. While its tempting to build a lot of culture early, I now think 100K is more about getting as many towns settled under the domination limit as quick as possible. I'm not even sure an SGL is required for a good date. If I had hand-built or captured the ToA even 40 turns later, only about 400-500 total culture would have been lost. It would have cost a turn, but still produced a good time. The early settler sure helped quite a bit.

I agree the Celts are great for this, but other civs could still come up with a similar time as well. Besides the Babs, I'm still interested in what the Arabs could do. They could possibly have research shut off by 1000BC and gobble ai towns with Ansars with ease. Perhaps even stuff the map with lots of agri civs to grow towns for them quicker. They might need to build more workers for quicker irrigation and add-ins to make up for the loss of agri when it comes time to whip, but it could be done. The science civs need to figure out a way to get a lot libs for doubling early and still plant a ton of towns. Perhaps even skip the ToA as AT suggested and get some use out of the cheap unis.

@DWetzel--I haven't played a gauntlet yet where my later attempts didn't yield a better result. They're a great way to improve your game as I always learn something.

I'm tempted to try another game, but it's about time to get cracking on that Sid Histograph challenge. Good luck, everybody. We may yet see another #1 100K.

 

[Tone]

A bit late to the party but let me add my congratulations. Just three turns short of beating Marsden's overall #1 100K date if I'm not mistaken. I also enjoyed reading the quality report.

I've been sidetracked by a few 20K games and some submissions to the HOF but I am tempted to try the Arabs. I've got a few days to try them out yet.

 

[Aigburth]

I'm quite enjoying my first attempt at a 100k, feels like a much bigger project than the fast science games I usually like to play. I'm playing as Celts and so far quite similar to Prince Myshkin's game though I'm slightly ahead in city building reaching 100 in 350bc, still a lot of blood, sweat and tears to go before I finish.

 

[Kuningas]

I decided to give this a try. I first tried with Sumeria, researched Education and built Universities. Projected win date was somewhere in 1200AD. I made mistakes by stopped settler production too early. So my second game was with Babs aimed to get Masonry SGL. Which I succeed after a couple non SGL games. Masonry SGL rushes The Pyramids in 2950BC.

Settings: 60% Pangaea, Wet, Warm, 5 billion. Rivals Byzantines, Sumeria, Korea, Russia, Rome, Greece and Germany. Scientific tribes so I could get Middle Ages techs.
Here is starting position.


Research went to the standard Republic slingshot. While I traded for techs. AI tech pace was not good, so I selfresearched Writing, CoL, Philosophy, Literature, Currency and Construction. The MA was reached in 1200BC After tech trading with AI my free tech is Chivalry.

Bowmen initiates Golden Age in 1250BC. I begin to build Temple of Artemis in nineveh as a second SGL did not seem to appear. ToA is handbuilt in 510BC.
Forgot to save in 1000BC, here is stats in 850BC:
cities 26
pop 65
21 workers


Then it's settler spamming for decades. Until I switch to Feudalism in 30BC. All settlers are changed to Libraries.
10AD stats.
culture 6230
total cpt 330
cities 151
pop 407
72 workers
44 settlers


In the end some of the cities did not get Colosseum/Cathedral. I did have too few workers, land was not fully improved. But I was happy with result. Cultural victory in 760D.
total cpt 2120
cities 250
pop 1143

 

[PrinceMyshkin]

Awesome game, Kuningas! A new #1 100k!

151 cities by 10AD without agriculture trait is incredible and makes the Babs fearsome indeed. Switching to the whip with at least that many cities would be my target and the earlier the switch the better. Did high building maintenance ever slow your whip? Or did your cities finished with culture pay for things? It doesn't seem to be the problem I once thought in these games.

 

[Aigburth]

Finally finished my first 100k and I'm quite pleased with the result!

I chose to play as the Celts, settings were dry, temperate (might of been warm), 5 Billion and 60% Pangea.

Opponents were Korea, Germany, Greece, Ottmans, Persia, Byzantines and Sumeria.

I set mapfinder to find maps with 2 cows and a river, the plan was to research alphabet and writing and then restart if I got no SGL with writing, the first map where I got the SGL was the one I ended up playing to the end.

Here was the start: -

I researched first Alphabet then Writing completing in 2310bc: -

At this point I knew only Korea to the east and Germany to the south however just one turn later I met the Ottomans in the far south allowing me to rush the Pyramids starting a despotic golden age.

I continued research towards The Republic completing Code of Laws in 1870bc and philosophy in 1700bc becoming a Republic in 1675bc. I switched off research for around 13 turns to concentrate on cash rushing settlers and workers and build up some cash for Warrior to Gallic Sword upgrades.

I switched research back on again in 1350bc at a leisurely 30% completing Polytheism in 7 turns then Literature in 12 turn at 20% science.

1000bc Stats

22 Cities
81 Citizens
1 Settler
43 Workers (42 Native, 1 Slave)
9 Warriors, 10 Gallic Swords
Contacts with everyone except Byzantines and Sumeria (I was beginning to suspect these two were on a separate Island)

Spoiler :

In 1000bc I also started the first proper war against the neighboring Koreans capturing the city of Wonsan that turn.

The next 1000 years were all about increasing my number of cities as fast as possible by cash rushing, conquest and normally built settlers nearer the core, some significant dates during those years: -

875bc: Researched Literature
850bc: Purchased Map Making
800bc: Eliminated Korea
730bc: Hand built Temple of Artemis
530bc: Researched Currency (and built markets in the core soon after)
430bc: Signed peace with Germany after making them OCC
410bc: Purchased Construction and entered Middle Ages also gaining monotheism and feudalism from the AI
370bc: Reached 100 Cities
210bc: Purchased Engineering from the Ottomans during a brief 3 turn peace treaty
150bc: Eliminated Greece
90bc: Eliminated Ottomans
50bc: eliminated Germay
130bc: Researched Invention
50bc: Researched Gunpowder

The situation in 10ad was as follows: -

190 Cities
615 Citizens
39 Settlers
187 Workers (158 Native, 29 Slaves)
8831 Culture and 426 culture per turn

Spoiler :

In 30ad I went into anarchy having first cash rushed as many cities up to the next multiple of 20 shields. In 70ad I became a feudalism and on that first turn I went from 714 citizens to 389 increasing my culture per turn from 452 to 631.

From here on it was just a case of whipping for 20 shields every time a city grew, turns during this phase were taking me around 1 hour each. Like Prince I let a city stay at size 2 where that meant it had 5 food per turn though I did get greedy and whipped twice on the final turn to complete its build a turn early (not sure if this made a difference or not).

As the need for workers started to reduce I gradually added these to nearby cities speeding up some builds.

My estimated win date fell rapidly, it fell below PrinceMyshkin's date in 330ad when I was at 28,404 culture and 1,594cpt. In 360ad it dropped below Kuningas's date, at this point I had 33,496 culture and 1,761cpt.

The eventual win date was 670ad, by this time I had 254 cities and 1511 domination tiles, 15 tiles below the limit and was producing 2425 culture per turn.

Spoiler :

For those interested I have put below all the data for no. cities, total culture, culture per turn and increase in culture per turn below: -

Spoiler :

 

[PrinceMyshkin]

Outstanding, Aigburth. A true masterpiece and wonderful report.

Having seen some great launch dates in 'Charlie' and a stunning victory from Chamnix, I wonder if we'll see the bar raised for this gauntlet. I do hope so...

You, Sir, have got your wish.

 

[Tone]

Well done, Aigburth! It's interesting to see when you cranked up the culture.

Yes, PrinceMyshkin. The bar has been raised a few times this month already with some great games. It's also nice to see players that don't usually visit the HOF making submissions.

 

[Marsden]

This is in the record books. Aigburth wins with 670AD, Kuningas 2nd with 760AD, PrinceMyshkin 3rd with 800AD, Mathias 4th with 830AD DWetzel 5th with 1210AD. Good job all!

 

[DWetzel]

Yay, a wooden spoon?

Someday I'll get the hang o' this stuff. Honest.

 

[Marsden]

Don't feel bad, you still beat the previous number 1!



I'll find you some boobies if you want a prize.

 

[DWetzel]

Don't feel bad, you still beat the previous number 1!



I'll find you some boobies if you want a prize.

Hehe, there is that.

As for the boobies, let me ask my wife if it's okay.