G III Sigma

[Marsden]

Hello and welcome to the latest Gauntlet for the Civ III HOF. This month we've increase the size to large and racheted up the difficulty to Sid
Best date for a 20k cultural single city victory takes the gold!

• Mapsize: Large
• Difficulty: Sid
• Condition: 20k Cultural

Good luck and all entries for this G III Gauntlet must be submitted by 10/15/07.
Now get out there and start building!

 

[AutomatedTeller]

I urge all those who are scared off to look at this thread:

http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=162674

For a good how-to guide on how to attack this game, including a writeup of the best game at this level!!

 

[Marsden]

I urge all those who are scared off to look at this thread:

http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=162674

For a good how-to guide on how to attack this game, including a writeup of the best game at this level!!

Thanks, I actually had that thread in mind when I hatched this monster.

 

[Bartleby]

I didn't get around to playing the last gauntlet because I picked up an unfinished milkrun and I'm still playing monster turns.
If I do play any games for this one, I guess I won't be the only one playing a Byzantine Archipelago?

 

[AutomatedTeller]

I think an arch map is pretty much the only way to go. You could try a pangea, but the tech pace would kill you and I think all the war between AI's would cause so many SGL's that you would never get a shot at anything.

Spain is a good possibility. Anything that starts with alphabet is a good possibility, really.

 

[AutomatedTeller]

I've started.

First attempts kept getting screwed up - as it turns out, I had 70% water, which allowed too many AI on the same island, and the Aztecs kept getting writing 5 turns before I did, so no SGL's.

Reset to 80% and take out Aztecs and put in America and my first attempt gives me Collosus and a Writing SGL for Pyramids, plus I can trade for Math and ivory!! But I'm sharing an island with America and around 580 BC, they decide my 6 towns and wonder filled capitol will look really, really good in their land

 

[Chamnix]

My AI must all be on steroids. I have played 8 games so far where I managed to get the Colossus first, but in all of them, the AI has completed both the Pyramids and the Oracle no later than 1910 BC. I can't possibly finish either by then even if I go straight to them after the Colossus, and even a Writing SGL would be too late.

 

[AutomatedTeller]

What's killing me is that I keep getting islands with an AI on them. 2 AI is dangerous, but not a disaster, cause I can conceivably play them off on each other, but 1... man, that kills you. You can play for a long time, but eventually the AI is going to say "hmm - I want land and those wonders, so I'll send 50 archers and 50 spears to take take out his pathetic forces..."

 

[AutomatedTeller]

man, I thought a chieftain 20K fishing for SGL's game was frustrating. How many games did you have to play to get that one, sanabas?

 

[Bartleby]

I have an island to myself, but it has a large expanse of tundra that I don't know if I can fill in time.

I'm pondering now whether to declare war on the AI I have met, to try and slow the tech pace. That would also make me less bothered if/when the AI settlers show up.

 

[AutomatedTeller]

well, AI settlers on your islands aren't so bad - you can handle the AI putting 3 or 4 towns on your island. In fact, it can help, by giving you targets for leader fishing, plus they will grow to size 3 or more fast, so you dont' have to use your own settlers, plus they'll send another large set of settlers that you can whack

 

[Niklas]

I've decided to give this a go. Like Chamnix my AIs build Pyramids and Oracle before I have even the shadow of a chance. But I managed to get Colossus, GLib and the Mausoleum in the AA at least. I'm doing fairly well tech-wise, I'm the second most advanced nation of the world halfway into the MA. But...

There's a big but, the tech leader (Mongols) got an island at least twice the size of anyone else's, all to himself, and a few other empty islands surrounding that as well. And he got the Torch, so he could safely settle all those islands, and meet most of the other AIs as well. I'm doing 15-20 turn research while he's doing 4 turns or there about. He completed Copernicus about the time I finished researching Theology. It seems like I could possibly hold out without being conquered, but there's no way I could stop him from winning in some way or another. So back to the generating board I guess.

 

[AutomatedTeller]

Are you guys getting islands to yourself? I get very few to myself...

 

[Niklas]

Roughly half to myself and half shared with one other. 7 games down, and in 5 of the last 6, the latest the Colossus was built by someone else was in 2590 BC. Sigh.

 

[AutomatedTeller]

wierd.

I'm getting about 85% have at least 1 other civ. I'm trying some as Persia - a bunch of seafaring civs and I go CB->Mysticism, setting up my 2nd city as a powerhouse. I popped 1 SGL for CB and got both Pyramids and oracle... but onyl 4 cities as I'm surrounded by portugese and a lot of jungle

 

[Chamnix]

in 5 of the last 6, the latest the Colossus was built by someone else was in 2590 BC

Interesting - I've found that I can almost always get the Colossus even if I build a temple first. Since temple first should get more culture in the long run, I have doing that recently, but there is no chance whatsoever of getting a second very early wonder.

My build order has typically been:

Curragh
Worker
Temple
Worker (x2 if I have 3+ cows)
Colossus
Settlers (3-4)
Wonder (usually Mausoleum of Mausollos or Hanging Gardens)

I really don't think sanabas' date is going to be beatable (by me at least) unless someone gets an early SGL, and the Pyramids are still available as they were in his game. Obviously the early culture from the Pyramids is great, but I think it is at least as important just to have the Pyramids so you can develop a real empire capable of researching Middle Age techs in a reasonable time.

Since 80-90% of the time the Pyramids seem to be gone by 1750, I don't think I'll have the patience to wait for a game where they are available, and I get an SGL. I've lowered my goal from beating sanabas' date to beating my own date on this table (1888), and it's still frustrating... whose idea was this gauntlet anyway ?

 

[Marsden]

That would be me. Direct all hate mail to Marsden.

 

[AutomatedTeller]

Collosus will get more culture than a temple (3 cpt vs 2cpt)

I think this is a great gauntlet, Marsden.

Frankly, I had thought this was a soft date, but I don't think that at all. Yes, it's frustrating, but Ive tried 2 different approaches now (Byzantium, going collosus first), (Persia, eschewing collosus and going CB->Mysticism and making my 2nd city my wonder city so I can prebuild with a palace), both with arid cool and wet warm games.....

Took a break and got a nice standard demigod conquest and a nice huge 20K chieftain which turns out to be my best ever - in which the AI researched both Gunpowder AND Chivalry for me!!!)

 

[Chamnix]

Collosus will get more culture than a temple (3 cpt vs 2cpt)

Yes, but a temple takes much less time to build. For example, I think you get a lot more culture by building a temple on turn 20 and the Colossus on turn 40 than you get with the Colossus on turn 37 and the temple on turn 40. I think the only reason to go Colossus first would be that an AI might build it between turns 37 and 40, but that hasn't seemed to happen to me very often.

 

[Niklas]

I finally have a good candidate game going, playing Spain with capitol as 20k town. No way I'm going to beat sanabas' date, but I'm happy with a win since I've never ever won on Sid before (granted, I've only tried twice before, on pangea). I got Oracle (missed Colossus by one turn but could trade for Myst), GLib and SoZ in the AA, and Sistine, Cope, Newton and Magellan in the MA, and I'm now 8 turns from researching FA. Current projected date is 1888 AD, but I hope to push that down by at least 50 years.

The key to this game was three things:

First, I got the best island all to myself. The Chinese could reach me via coast, but they have yet to send even one unit to my island, probably because they spent all of the AA at war with the Mongols who they could also reach via coast (funny enough, they were the last civ I met).

Second, I met three civs before I needed to trade for BW, and several more shortly after, which meant I could control the trading, holding on to Alphabet and Writing for a long time. I was the first to the MA by a margin, and the first to the IA by even more.

Third, getting the SoZ (I traded for Ivory from China!) meant I could keep a good defense without investing in it. Instead I had two 5-turn settler factories up fairly early and could settle most of my island without contention (and that's the largest island with the best land).

My capitol is in the middle of a grassland, with two cows and a lot of river. I only got 22 spt before Eng, 25 spt from Eng on. I risked losing the race to Magellan (which was going to trigger my GA) so I had to build a Conquistador and declare on the Incas that had built a town on my island. The GA gave me 38 spt (frustrating) and got me both Magellan and Newton, as well as a healthy lead to the IA. I tried my old 20k trick of beelining for Industrialism before going back for FA, hoping someone would give me PP. In hindsight it probably was a mistake, since there were no MA wonders left that the inreased production from railroads, factory and coal plant (66 spt, frustrating!!!). In games on emperor and below you can often have a good enough lead that the high production can give you a lot of late MA wonders. Not here though, but I'm going to build US same turn I get FA and can then build Shakespeare in 7 turns.

It wasn't until I went back here now that I realized I haven't gotten any SGLs at all, despite being the first to Writing, Philo, Lit, Currency, Mono, Theo, Edu, Astro, Nav, Chem, Phys, ToG, Mag, Steam, Ind and PP. I'm so used to playing with SGLs turned off that I hadn't even noticed.

What are the chances of popping an SGL anyway?