G III Sigma

:blush: Doh, of course they are seafaring. I blame CFC's information that I was browsing through, there they are still listed with their PtW info. Mayans may be a good alternative if they go for Polytheism first like you say, then their even faster expansion (compared to Aztecs) won't hurt any. Thanks for the tip, I'll use them in my next game. :)
 
Got a question for you all:

I have a decision in a game that I'm going with. I'm Carthage, btw.

I am a turn from getting Philo. The chinese started building Hanging Gardens a couple of turns ago, but I have a prebuild that will give me HG if I want it.

The Mongols started building the Lighthouse a few turns ago in Ta-tu, so I assume I can't get it if I get HG, though I'm not sure.

However, the Mongols also have CoL. So, I could get philo, trade a bunch of stuff around and get CoL, then take Republic and leverage that into a trade for Monarchy and HG - that will mean I can't get MoM, which is a pain, cause I didn't even try for Collosus and if I get HG, I probably won't get the lighthouse, which means no GA for awhile, unless I build a few Numideans.

it's an 70% arch map, so I dont' NEED the lighthouse to get some luxes, but it sure would be useful. Of course, HG gives me a happiness boost right off and the culture is better for HG than Lighthouse.

What would you guys do? Right now, it's 1200 BC and I have just a temple in my 20K city (it's my second city, so I can do this prebuild thing ;)) I think I'm going to sacrifice MoM for HG, then revolt and see if I can still get the lighthouse (hah!!), build SoZ then prebuild for GLib.
 
I would take HG over the lighthouse. In fact, I found it very useful not to have a too early GA in the game I submitted.

I had a game with a good start, built temple before colossus, got an SGL for Philo who built me a very early ToA. But I missed out on HG (I took Monarchy as my freebie, but the Americans had researched it one turn later) and MoM, SoZ and GLight all were built very early somewhere else. I did get GLib, and entered the MA in 590 BC. The problem with the game was that I wasn't alone on my island, but I decided to try it anyway, since there were 2 other AI on my island and I could keep them at war with each other, allying with the closer against the one on his other side. So I wasn't really at a risk militarily, but the game was still lost because I got too little room for expansion. As a consequence I took 24 turns to Mono, and when I was wtill 5 turns away the Inca (who I were at war with) started building Sistine... The tech pace in a 70% water game is certainly higher - maybe too high.

I also had an interesting experience when I first started running 70% water. The tech pace was utterly insane, The Zulu were 6 techs up on me when I met them after 25 turns, including Mysticism. I couldn't believe how fast it was going, until I realized I had turned on sedentary barbs... :blush:
 
@AutomatedTeller - I would definitely take the Hanging Gardens over the Lighthouse or the Mausoleum.

@Niklas - A couple wars are always good for keeping the tech pace from going too fast.
 
ouch. sedentary barbs with a bunch of expansionist civs on Sid ;)

That might make for an insane variant - pangea, sid, raging barbs, against all expansionist opponents.
 
well, that fell apart fast. freaking mongols landed more military units than I had units!!!! and I HATE that the AI can rush a spear in a city they take THAT TURN. It's very frustrating.
 
This is interesting.

I have a game going as the Dutch. 70% water, 20k city is my 2nd city and not on the water (so I can use palace as a prebuild) - I missed HG by a turn (cascade from ToA) and ended up with MoM, but I got Sistine and Copes and shakes and, in 610, am about 7 turns from bach's. I won't get Smith;s, though - that will cascade, unless I pop an SGL for Theory of Gravity. My time now is estimated as 1874 and I dont' see how I can catch Sanabas, but I think the theory (using the 2nd city) might be solid - I haven't had very good luck in the game.
 
ok - I just built US and I'm 6 turns from Theory of Evolution and I'm going to beat 1792... if I can manage to keep from losing by 100K or (more likely) spaceship.

I have to go to serious war to slow down america's research. Also, privateers are a serious freaking pain in the butt.
 
My final time was 1760. I have a lot to learn about warring on Sid - weariness becomes a major pain in the butt, especially with MPP's, cause you try to get out of a war and then get pulled right back into it!!

I'll write it up better. High points were:

5 cow start.
32 SPT at size 12.
138 at 20, rails, factory/coal plant.
1 SGL, for fission, which I used on Manhatten Project.
Had to destroy my reputation to get astronomy so I could build Newton's, which caused problems later.
Spending a lot of time worrying about a 100K loss near the end, but was in no real danger as it turned out.
 
I've given up. I didn't get a game off the ground this weekend and I doubt I'll have enough time left now.

No matter what I did (as the Byzantines) I couldn't build anything before the Colossus.
 
:goodjob: Very nice playing AT!

I've had several promising starts, but none that works out into the MA. I might just try AT's approach, but I fear I won't have time to complete it before the gauntlet ends. Still, nothing stopping me from submitting it as a normal HoF game if it works out well.
 
I submitted my game yesterday as well. The final - a 20K cultural win for Spain in ... 1760 AD.

Picking up from my last post, I built Sistine Chapel, JS Bachs Cathedral, and Shakespeare's Theater in the Middle Ages. I missed Copernicus' Observatory by about 5-6 turns and was never in the running for Newton's University (the Mayans started building it while I still had 6-8 turns left on Physics). I nearly got Smith's Trading Company but fell 1 turn short.

I never did get a source of iron, so my post-Middle Age game was very weak - I missed Universal Suffrage but did eventually get Theory of Evolution and Hoover Dam (although I didn't have a single factory), and all the small wonders. Things just take too long to build without railroads and factories.

I ended up revolting back to Monarchy because I was getting some war weariness, and my research wasn't going anywhere anyway, and I really wanted to take Mongolia for its iron, silks, and saltpeter (I didn't have my own saltpeter either, but I could trade for it sometimes). I tried to invade the Mongols 3 times but was thrown back each time. I had massive stacks of trebbies (then artillery - no cannons of course) under armies, but they just had too many units. I would clear a wide swath of territory so I could plant a town on their island, then they would move 107 or so more cavalry within range of my new town and force me to abandon it.

I didn't have coal or rubber either. I did find a source of oil upon discovering Refining, but I never learned Combustion so I didn't know what to do with it. I didn't get any SGLs either, but I wasn't first to nearly as many techs as Niklas. I did get 8-10 Military Great Leaders from my constant leader fishing on my home island.

The final culture list (from F5):

-4000 - Palace (658)
-2310 - Colossus (1722)
-2190 - Temple (1132)
-1200 - Hanging Gardens (1960)
-950 - Statue of Zeus (1888)
-850 - Library (1389)
-610 - Great Library (2598)
-590 - Colosseum (860)
-170 - Cathedral (1101)
50 - Heroic Epic (1344)
390 - Sistine Chapel (1584)
430 - University (1016)
700 - JS Bach's Cathedral (1038)
720 - Pentagon (167)
880 - Shakespeare's Theater (1120)
1070 - Military Academy (121)
1465 - Theory of Evolution (186)
1585 - Hoover Dam (76)
1605 - Wall Street (68)
1640 - Intelligence Agency (27)
1715 - Battlefield Medicine (12)

Finished at 20067 culture + 116 cpt.
 
Settings:
Large, Sid, Warm, Arid, 3M years old, Arch, 70% water. My thoughts were that an agri civ could handle the desert well and give me an advantage. Tech pace turned out to be much faster than I have been used to on highlevel SID games.
Opponents: Zulu, Mongols, America, Egypt, Arabia, China.

Temple Built in 1675 BC 1054
The Mausoleum of Mausollos Built in 1275 BC 992
The Great Library Built in 775 BC 2742
Forbidden Palace Built in 630 BC 874
Library Built in 490 BC 1263
Colosseum Built in 450 BC 830
Cathedral Built in 190 BC 1128
Sistine Chapel Built in 110 AD 1986
University Built in 270 AD 1216
Copernicus' Observatory Built in 400 AD 1060
Shakespeare's Theater Built in 550 AD 1760
JS Bach's Cathedral Built in 670 AD 1104
Newton's University Built in 750 AD 960
Heroic Epic Built in 800 AD 600
Military Academy Built in 880 AD 142
Universal Suffrage Built in 1000 AD 520
Theory of Evolution Built in 1080 AD 366
Hoover Dam Built in 1140 AD 232
The Pentagon Built in 1170 AD 113
Battlefield Medicine Built in 1190 AD 111
Wall Street Built in 1270 AD 202
Intelligence Agency Built in 1285 AD 98
SETI program Built in 1540 AD 141
Research Lab Built in 1545 AD 92
The United Nations Built in 1595 AD 144
The Manhattan Project Built in 1600 AD 70
The Internet Built in 1660 AD 92
Cure for Cancer Built in 1710 AD 39
Longevity Built in 1750 AD 15
Apollo Program Built in 1758 AD 2

This misses my palace, which I moved to Rotterdam by disbanding my capitol around 550 AD, then built in Maastrich in 1445 AD so I could get a 1000 shield palace prebuild.

Final culture 20057, making 150 CPT.

Start was excellent, 4 cows available right off, a 5th showed up with a worker move and there was a pile of hills/mountains nearby.

Much war: I had many phony and near phony wars, which helped with happiness as I was over ocean to most everyone. Once Astronomy kicked in, America started landing units next to my capitol. Being the AI, of course, they had to sail their attack force across half the world landing right next to my pathetic military, as opposed to landing right near their land, where I had nothing. they waited until I had rails everywhere to start landing on the far side ;)

I was resource heavy - 2 irons, 2 coals, saltpeter (in my one desert tile!), 2 oil, 2 rubber, 1 aluminum. Horses were a problem - I had to trade with America to get cavs, then used those to take horses from china.

Wars were many and long. I landed a force on the northern end of Zulu's island on a hill and rushed walls and barracks to kick off my GA and steal furs. Zulu had no iron or horses, though they had traded for horses at some point, and were very backwards (still in the AA) and had a few swords from a trade.

Horses, archers and impis vs. super-pikes on a hill, behind walls with a barracks worked about as well as you would expect for the Zulu and my city was never really threatened and gave me 3 or 4 leaders for armies, though I ran into serious weariness issues that plagued me until the Zulu were dead 1000 years later (I kept going back to war before the weariness wore off)

In the mid IA (about 800 AD), I realized that if I didn't do something, I was probably going to lose via spaceship - america was outresearching me and was close to 4 turn research... so it was time for war. I signed an MPP with america and attacked pretty much everyone, trying to get America in a war with arabia. I had to bring them in on an MA to get them at war, but I did manage to get the entire world in fascism, which killed everyone's research except the Mongols, who were able to keep up with me through the culture bereft military half of the IA.

Mongols went for flight as I went for tanks, then they declared on me and I had bombers attacking a little island I had down near them, which was a big pain. This was a pain, cause I was getting 3 luxes from Mongols. Fortunately, most of my core had temples and caths and I had universal suffrage and bach's, so most of the core was fine... though I did have my 20K city riot once and I had to bump the lux up to about 40%.

Most of the top half of the IA, my 20K city made armies when I ran out of builds. Using those, I took several minor islands from america and mongols, and beat up zulu.

I worried about 100K - it's hard to tell from the culture graph how much the 2nd highest culture civ has relative to the highest. As it turns out, I was in no danger - mongols ended up with 90K.
 

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Nice job, AutomatedTeller :thumbsup:! I feel pretty confident that you had a higher score than mine so you should have the gauntlet lead currently - your island looks bigger, and you expanded off of it (plus 3 native luxuries doesn't hurt!). Even though the last 25 or so of my turns, there was no chance of improving my date so I irrigated everywhere and cranked the luxury slider :mischief:, I doubt my score will be even close to yours.

The Great Library Built in 775 BC 2742
Forbidden Palace Built in 630 BC 874
Library Built in 490 BC 1263

What's the rationale for Forbidden Palace before library? I would think that a library in your 20K town might even help research more than the FP.

I was resource heavy - 2 irons, 2 coals, saltpeter (in my one desert tile!), 2 oil, 2 rubber, 1 aluminum.

:gripe: ;)


I worried about 100K - it's hard to tell from the culture graph how much the 2nd highest culture civ has relative to the highest.

MapStat is good for that. I don't think it gives you entirely accurate culture numbers since that would be spoiler info, but it can definitely tell you if you should be worried or not.
 
Thanks, Chamnix - you too!! I thought this would win handily, to be honest. That is might come down to score is pretty amazing. My score was about 8K - I spent a LOT of time in war weariness...

This was inspired, btw, by the 1715 AD HUGE Sid game that is #1. I tried Persia several times, but never could get an SGL, an island to myself and early enough contacts.

Iron was the only resource that was critical, for the swiss mercs.


I have no idea why I built FP before the library, to be honest. I saw that in my write up and thought "why did I do that?" I'm pretty sure that the FP helped with research more, though, reducing corruption throughout the empire.

I only had 2 native luxes, wine and silks. I stole furs from Zulu in the mid MA.

One thing I would do differently is more concentration in my warring - at one point in the IA, I was attacking Zulu's remaining cities AND invading American islands, which stretched me both militarily and from a weariness perspective.

And the fact that I kept destroying my rep (paying GPT for Astronomy and then declaring on America, taking cities for peace and declaring before 20 turns were up, breaking alliances - only thing I didn't do was ROP Rape) didn't help any.
 
My score was about 8K.

You beat me by a rather large margin - I was about 4200, I think.

I only had 2 native luxes, wine and silks. I stole furs from Zulu in the mid MA.

Oops :blush:. I thought I saw 3 in your picture, but I was probably counting the silks as 2 since they are so far apart I thought they were 2 different luxuries.
 
One thing that I highly recommend is lots of little invasions. Taking out the AI on their home island is really tough, but on a 70 or 80% map, there are plenty of little islands to colonize/conquer. They are a good place to train forces and they give a bunch of land, too. Moving armies before galleons is a pain, of course.
 
results? new gauntlet? I'm atwitter with anticipation!!

no, I'm not actually sure what atwitter would actually be like - i suspect much like a squirrel on amphetamines, and I'm just waking up right now.
 
We will be updating shortly.

Everything is fine.


Pay no attention to the man behind the curtain.
 
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