G-Major LVIII

[Bleidraner]

But an iffy one unfortunately for me. I had a crash on t92 (nothing important was happening, so irrelevant, had to replay 0 moves as it crashed from 1 turn to the next but created the autosave), but the worst is that I had to replay the last turn as I forgot to hit the one more turn, I exited to main menu instead, and had to go back to my last autosave. This was an important turn, first because it was my last turn of being influential with Shaka, and also I took down Delhi on it, yes I had total overkill of chariots, Delhi at 0 health but still really bothers me, so I will try again, as I see the next minor has not yet been published. If I don't get anything better, I will submit anyway see what HOF staff thinks. If it was up to me I would disqualify the game.

Anyway, Shaka built a late monument, I think around t70, and I completely overshot on culture (closed Liberty around 110, I spent 1500 gold on allying CSs, which made my war late). Need to balance that better, in my other 2 games war was over by t120sh, but on this one I had 2 caps on hills on the western mountains and 2 caps on the eastern woods and started second army really late. If I had rush built 2 chariots instead of wasting so much money much on culture (clearly 750 was enough), I could have had my second army 20 turns early and finished this thing around 230. The other problem is my luxes were both calendar luxes, so my peace deals where extremely poor. Cool game. Before this, I played past t50 on 2 previous occasions, one to t55 where lat monument was built and the other I just went ahead and did a domination victory at t137 for VVV. I played another 5 games to t50. I think 1 in 10 will deliver a late monument. Re-roll city.

Spoiler :

 

[Morcar_olmig]

Anyway, Shaka built a late monument, I think around t70, and I completely overshot on culture (closed Liberty around 110, I spent 1500 gold on allying CSs, which made my war late). Need to balance that better, in my other 2 games war was over by t120sh, but on this one I had 2 caps on hills on the western mountains and 2 caps on the eastern woods and started second army really late. If I had rush built 2 chariots instead of wasting so much money much on culture (clearly 750 was enough), I could have had my second army 20 turns early and finished this thing around 230. The other problem is my luxes were both calendar luxes, so my peace deals where extremely poor. Cool game. Before this, I played past t50 on 2 previous occasions, one to t55 where lat monument was built and the other I just went ahead and did a domination victory at t137 for VVV. I played another 5 games to t50. I think 1 in 10 will deliver a late monument. Re-roll city.

Spoiler :

View attachment 391269

Good attempt, Bleidraner! It's intresting that you was able to win with the culture bomb that late... Does it mean that if you once became influential over some civ, it's not possible for that civ to get back its pre influential status even if its total culture exceeds your total tourism generated over that civ at some point in future?

Tried 3 to 4 rolls. Last one was promising, but not succesfull. I noticed that both Ghandi (at 70ish) and Hiya (at 55ish) built their monuments late, but i wasn't able to deliver my GM to them in time (by the 140 turn). Also i got strange impression that Haya has sold its monument at some point, because in the late turns (from 100 to 130) he generated only 1 culture per turn.

Did anyone have the same situation in your games, when some AI sold its monument? It might be that i wasn't just attentive enough and he never built its monument, but got couple of culture ruins instead.

EDIT:

I think i got one additional idea. If one of the civs gets expo early then what is needed to do is just capture cap of that civ - this way monument will be destroyed and that civ will have to build monument once again in the expo for only_God_knows_how_many_turns. This approach should work with every map - i will try that tomorrow.

 

[Bleidraner]

Good attempt, Bleidraner! It's intresting that you was able to win with the culture bomb that late... Does it mean that if you once became influential over some civ, it's not possible for that civ to get back its pre influential status even if its total culture exceeds your total tourism generated over that civ at some point in future?

Tried 3 to 4 rolls. Last one was promising, but not succesfull. I noticed that both Ghandi (at 70ish) and Hiya (at 55ish) built their monuments late, but i wasn't able to deliver my GM to them in time (by the 140 turn). Also i got strange impression that Haya has sold its monument at some point, because in the late turns (from 100 to 130) he generated only 1 culture per turn.

Did anyone have the same situation in your games, when some AI sold its monument? It might be that i wasn't just attentive enough and he never built its monument, but got couple of culture ruins instead.

EDIT:

I think i got one additional idea. If one of the civs gets expo early then what is needed to do is just capture cap of that civ - this way monument will be destroyed and that civ will have to build monument once again in the expo for only_God_knows_how_many_turns. This approach should work with every map - i will try that tomorrow.

No you lose the influence. I won on the last turn I was influential. Made another attempt, target t125, too ambitious, but I had 4 CSs, closed liberty too late and my GM had still 3 turns to walk and 1 to bomb when he passed 300. Ah if he had had been closer I would have had an epic result. Oh well.

Morcar, good idea with the expo, but no good as you will win a domination victory if that is the last civ standing (and that's the idea no?).

 

[chuckh89]

Good attempt, Bleidraner! It's interesting that you was able to win with the culture bomb that late... Does it mean that if you once became influential over some civ, it's not possible for that civ to get back its pre influential status even if its total culture exceeds your total tourism generated over that civ at some point in future?

Most people put "Culture" as what is limiting them,...Therefore I decided to prioritize culture over warmongering which resulted in many of my games following a different trend.

You absolutely positively can lose your influence with a Civ as I as seen first hand. AND, one major thing to realize if you are prioritizing culture.....

The AI knows exactly when you get that Great Musician, and reacts immediately!

(It is actually kind of BS, because REALLY how does a Civ that is decimated many tiles away know which Great Person I selected when I close "Liberty")

So, I guess what I am saying is that you need to be quick with your GM, and your working on borrowed time before your Concert Tour.

I actually have many games with a Sub T120 GM, but I was either way behind in warmongering, or the AI "Wised Up" because it feared my GM, and immediately changed its priorities to culture.



ALSO, (And I know it is a silly question, but it has actually happened 3 times now!)

What should I do with my belief in the "rare" situation in which I receive a religion? Nothing really makes sense? Production,....I guess? Your city is not very large, so it is normally a minuscule %, or do I go with Growth even though there will probably be very few turns that I am not at war.

Obviously this is from popping ruins and CS quests, so there would be no faith driven beliefs that would give any advantage in such a short game.


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[Morcar_olmig]

No you lose the influence. I won on the last turn I was influential. Made another attempt, target t125, too ambitious, but I had 4 CSs, closed liberty too late and my GM had still 3 turns to walk and 1 to bomb when he passed 300. Ah if he had had been closer I would have had an epic result. Oh well.

Morcar, good idea with the expo, but no good as you will win a domination victory if that is the last civ standing (and that's the idea no?).

That's interesting topic to discuss. Imagine, for example, there are only two civs left in your game: one with expo and another one with just cap. So at turn X you first become influential over civ with expo and then you capture the other's civ capital. What would happen first dom or cultural victory?

There is always strict sequence for certain things in civ. For example: during the turn update food is always calculated first then hammers etc... I think it should be the same for victory condition, for example, first your civ is tested against the science vic, then diplo etc. and it might mean that if you have reached both cultural and domi vic at the same turn, culture might win because it's was checked first. However i don't know exactly what is coming first and if there are similar mechanics to what i have described.

Also, in this game original capital are being razed instead of captured, does it mean that original cap moves to expo??

That requires some checking or sharing of experience from other players

What should I do with my belief in the "rare" situation in which I receive a religion? Nothing really makes sense? Production,....I guess? Your city is not very large, so it is normally a minuscule %, or do I go with Growth even though there will probably be very few turns that I am not at war.

I always take the God-King pantheon - it adds a little to almost everything, so just a nice addition - i didn't have any deep thoughts about that in this game.

 

[chuckh89]

I always take the God-King pantheon - it adds a little to almost everything, so just a nice addition - i didn't have any deep thoughts about that in this game.

For Pantheon, Yes...God King is a good choice. Sometimes I am able to get a Religious CS Ally early, then pop 2 faith ruins,...So Religion! (Not Pantheon)



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[Morcar_olmig]

For Pantheon, Yes...God King is a good choice. Sometimes I am able to get a Religious CS Ally early, then pop 2 faith ruins,...So Religion! (Not Pantheon)

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Ah, sorry, didn't realize you actually speak about religion, although you clearly wrote it (sometimes reading between the lines), because i never got it in my games . In that case i would take something related to money, like tithe .

 

[Bleidraner]

That's interesting topic to discuss. Imagine, for example, there are only two civs left in your game: one with expo and another one with just cap. So at turn X you first become influential over civ with expo and then you capture the other's civ capital. What would happen first dom or cultural victory?

There is always strict sequence for certain things in civ. For example: during the turn update food is always calculated first then hammers etc... I think it should be the same for victory condition, for example, first your civ is tested against the science vic, then diplo etc. and it might mean that if you have reached both cultural and domi vic at the same turn, culture might win because it's was checked first. However i don't know exactly what is coming first and if there are similar mechanics to what i have described.

Also, in this game original capital are being razed instead of captured, does it mean that original cap moves to expo??

That requires some checking or sharing of experience from other players



I always take the God-King pantheon - it adds a little to almost everything, so just a nice addition - i didn't have any deep thoughts about that in this game.

Oh I have won an accidental Dom V a couple of times, Dom, Science and Culture are not calculated at the end of the turn, but the moment it happens, Diplo is calculated at the end of the turn (after the vote results are in). In this case, last capital falls, Dom V, based on experience, that game was not OCC though, but I do not think that makes a difference. I am not sure why. I guess because there must be a subcondition in culture that says there has to be 1 capital left, and in that microsecond when the game takes stock of where it is, it sees no capitals left.

And yes for all practical purposes except Dom condition, the capital moves to the bigger expo when you conquer the cap.

 

[vadalaz]

That's interesting topic to discuss. Imagine, for example, there are only two civs left in your game: one with expo and another one with just cap. So at turn X you first become influential over civ with expo and then you capture the other's civ capital. What would happen first dom or cultural victory?

Just tested that quickly - it counted as a domination victory.

 

[Morcar_olmig]

Just tested that quickly - it counted as a domination victory.

Thanks for testing, Vadalaz! That means less room for maneuvering

 

[chuckh89]

Ah, sorry, didn't realize you actually speak about religion, although you clearly wrote it (sometimes reading between the lines), because i never got it in my games . In that case i would take something related to money, like tithe .

Initiation Rights is "No Brainer" (IMHO) for the "Founder Belief", it is the "Follower Belief" that doesn't have anything of great benefit.

Religious Community +1% 20xProduction5 Production for each follower (Max +15%)
Swords into Plowshares 15% faster 20xFood5 Growth rate for city if not at war
Feed the World Shrines and Temples provide +1 20xFood5 Food each in city
Asceticism Shrines provide +1 20xHappiness5 Happiness in cities with 3 followers

And I personally wouldn't even want to waste gold or production on a Shrine, so really only the top two,...I just think it is funny, if you received a religion Pre T60 you initially find yourself smiling,...thinking you received a "rare" advantage. BUT, you REALLY hardly get anything...?? Some gold, and a tiny bit of production or growth...That's it!

After getting faith for a Pantheon, the +190 faith from ruins is like receiving absolutely nothing unless you closing in on Religion, and then religion isn't that great....I find myself praying that my ruins are something other than faith.

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[Mesix]

That's interesting topic to discuss. Imagine, for example, there are only two civs left in your game: one with expo and another one with just cap. So at turn X you first become influential over civ with expo and then you capture the other's civ capital. What would happen first dom or cultural victory

This is what happened in my one attempt so far. It would have been less than competitive anyway, but I got a late domination win none the less.

I finished my game on turn 289. Unfortunately, the player whom I had Influential culture with did not have his original capital when I took over the other remaining opponent. So I won a rather late conquest victory.

 

[Mesix]

I defeated everyone by about turn 160, got my GM, got 300 tourism which was close to legendary with Shaka, and then he started generating a lot of culture. The game lasted more than 200 more turns until I could get enough tourism to overcome. Not a competitive finish, but a fun game none the less. Turn 403

To get a fast finish, it is imperative to get the GM out before the target reaches 300 accumulated culture. As someone else noted, once the GM pops, the AI seems to start prioritizing culture.

 

[Morcar_olmig]

OK, got t139 win - not a great result, but at least something.

If you wondering what Shaka has been doing all the 139 turns - he built 3 warriors and one archer!

Was lucky to have 3 Cultural CS in my game, but didn't manage to ally them early.

 

[chuckh89]

OK, got t139 win - not a great result, but at least something.

Awesome Job!!

Not Great!?, isn't that the best...So Far!??


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[Morcar_olmig]

Awesome Job!!

Not Great!?, isn't that the best...So Far!??


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No , Vadalaz has turn 133 victory, but it looks like he didn't submit that game yet Anyway there is still room for improvment.

 

[vadalaz]

Nah, it's just that I finished Liberty on T133 in the game I submitted. T142 was the final result.

Good job Morcar

 

[zenmaster]

Initiation Rights is "No Brainer" (IMHO) for the "Founder Belief", it is the "Follower Belief" that doesn't have anything of great benefit.

Religious Community +1% 20xProduction5 Production for each follower (Max +15%)
Swords into Plowshares 15% faster 20xFood5 Growth rate for city if not at war
Feed the World Shrines and Temples provide +1 20xFood5 Food each in city
Asceticism Shrines provide +1 20xHappiness5 Happiness in cities with 3 followers

And I personally wouldn't even want to waste gold or production on a Shrine, so really only the top two,...I just think it is funny, if you received a religion Pre T60 you initially find yourself smiling,...thinking you received a "rare" advantage. BUT, you REALLY hardly get anything...?? Some gold, and a tiny bit of production or growth...That's it!

After getting faith for a Pantheon, the +190 faith from ruins is like receiving absolutely nothing unless you closing in on Religion, and then religion isn't that great....I find myself praying that my ruins are something other than faith.

_

A lot of times, the capitals you capture have shrines in them, so the last 2 are not always a total waste.

Also, didn't you have a win on the 1st quantum level Chuck with a 300pt GM, like T176? Great job! Any juicy details?

 

[Bleidraner]

t141. Nothing special, limiting factor was the war, not good. I decided to go first for the farthest AI, upper right Pacal in the middle of the woods on hill, 18 defense, on the other side of the world. Not sure why I did this, it would have made a lot more sense to go for that one as the last civ, I think I just wanted to get rid of the most difficult one first.

To add insult to injury, when I attacked, I stupidly lost my melee unit, did not calculate well as it was slightly injured, and forgot that Pacal always builds its unique unit, the Atlatlist, and had to walk another melee and a worker. The rest of the guys went in like 20 turns, all flat caps and easy with little detours.

Finished Liberty I think around 127, could have finished earlier but I saw the limiting factor was going to be the conquest, so did not bother to spend money there. This could have been a 133ish if I had played optimally.

The fun thing is that the guy that never built the monument was Harun, I really don't know what he was doing, he built a settler yes, I left 2 scouts idle for 60 turns ready to nab it which cost me, and I took it as soon as he got it out. But he must have been building something else, he only had like 1 scout on top of that. Maybe a wonder? I don't know. Also he was producing 2 culture by turn, not sure what he built, or maybe he got a pantheon. Anyway, he had me happy but baffled all game.

Really want to try again, but not sure if I will have the time. I also want to try the diplo minor, and I should try to do the SS GOTM, not sure if I will have enough time to do all that or any for that matter as I am drowning in work and need to dedicate time to family. Anyway, fun game.

Spoiler :

View attachment 391310

EDIT: Ok that screenshot sucks, content free. Let's try again:

Spoiler :

Spoiler :

Yes built a granary while waiting for The Wheel, built a really tall city, like pop 6. Should have built archers instead and take down a couple of caps with them. Also, extremely unusual, I found like 15 ruins and I am not exaggerating. No population ruins and no culture ruins. Really weird. Got like 4 free techs, 3 completely useless to me, pottery, writing and bronze working, one useful, Minery, I was half way through researching that, but saved me like 10 turns. The rest were maps, barbarian camps and 3 faith, only first one was useful for the pantheon. Very unlucky with ruins.

 

[chuckh89]

A lot of times, the capitals you capture have shrines in them, so the last 2 are not always a total waste.

Also, didn't you have a win on the 1st quantum level Chuck with a 300pt GM, like T176? Great job! Any juicy details?

This is a OCC Gauntlet, so every city is "Razed" immediately,...You wouldn't be getting any shrines,...Not sure what you referring to...??

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I have abandoned most creative approaches, and am now sticking with Vadalaz's original game plan, BUT my best time DID come from forward settling my neighbor, and still feel that decimating your local guy early increases the chances that he will be a "Culture Laggard", and most importantly you won't have far to go with your GM.

Decimating=Eliminating your neighbors units early, and not allowing him to get any new units out,...then putting scouts on his vital tiles.
Is is a winning strategy?...No, But I was looking to get on the board, SO that was good approach at that time, and now I am looking to challenge the leaders.

I have a lot of games under my belt now,...It is still the same story if your looking at a sub T140 win (IMHO)!!,....You need all of the intangibles, and Luck (Of course)!!

- A "Cultural Laggard"
-A upper level Tech. (The Wheel, Bronze Working, Writing) from a ruin
-Good CS quests, and at least 2 Cultural CSs
-Early Pantheon

People sometimes gloss over the bog that is the Eastern Woodlands/Marsh on Great Plains (Plus), but I've played too many Great Plains type maps to discount how many extra turns/units it will take to clear cities in that muck, even at low levels. I usually prefer to spawn on the edge of the Woodlands, as you can still get Mining Luxes and Pastures, but will have at most one other Civ in the forests with you.

That time I posted will be crushed in the near future,...Mainly because I changed my starting position and followed YOUR advice,...Still need a "Laggard" to jump on board though...

Also, didn't you have a win on the 1st quantum level Chuck with a 300pt GM, like T176?

Zen, where do you go to check the standings for this Gauntlet?

I am obviously not looking in the right place...And you knew I was on the board, so it must be information that is available to all players.

When I looked this Gauntlet's board it showed my placement, but I couldn't see others scores, or where other players were in the rankings.



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