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G-Minor CXLIII

Discussion in 'Civ5 - Hall of Fame Discussion' started by Denniz, May 2, 2017.

  1. Denniz

    Denniz Where's my breakfast? Retired Moderator Hall of Fame Staff

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    While the general Hall of Fame is an ongoing competition, we like to run time-definite competitions between updates that we call Gauntlets. Standard Hall of Fame rules (*) still apply, but any games meeting the settings will be counted towards the Gauntlet.

    (*) Please read the >> HOF rules << BEFORE playing!

    Settings:
    • Expansion: Brave New World
    • Victory Condition: Culture (though all victory conditions must be enabled)
    • Difficulty: Warlord
    • Map Size: Small
    • Map Type: Pangaea
    • Speed: Epic
    • Leader: Any
    • Opponents: Any
    • Version: SV8
    • Date: 2nd to 2nd May 2017
    The earliest finish date wins, with score as a tiebreaker.
     
  2. Zlither

    Zlither Warlord

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    Small, pangea & Epic (GMusician's even more powerful)... Greek Liberation?
    Though, at Warlord, maybe not necessary?

    (And thank you Denniz!)
     
  3. zenmaster

    zenmaster King Supporter

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    I second the hearty thank you to Denniz.

    @Zlither, I think Greek Liberation is spot on.
     
  4. billybgame

    billybgame Prince

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    When is the due date? June 2nd? Or? Just finishing learning at Chieftain....ready to move on to Warlord, so perfect timing to give this one a go:)
     
  5. Zlither

    Zlither Warlord

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    @zenmaster - was looking through the tables and saw your turn 108 (as India) on the same speed. Impressive!

    I tried last night as Attila due to his early strong units (esp if you find a ruin).
     
  6. Zlither

    Zlither Warlord

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    Tips that seem to work for a turn 95 game:
    • Attila - his early units are powerful.
    • Don't buy any units - save $ for cultural CSs, as finishing Liberty is slower than taking over everybody.
    • Take tribute from all CSs (except the ~2 cultural CSs). A lone batter ram is enough to get tribute.
    • One warrior->battling ram plus 4-6 horse archers is enough for everything. Maybe one more BR later.
    • Get the warrior upgraded, and, with it alone, take over the first 2 capitals not on hills.
    • Build a road from your capital to the first victim, so your GM can get there as quick as possible.
    • High Seas / 5 BYears / Hot / Arid for quickest movement (high seas unfortunately partly negates the 5BY)
    • Don't bother with a second city, you want the +1 / worker / golden age more.
    • Liberty -> {free worker / +1 production} -> Golden age -> Meritocracy -> Settler
    • Tech's: beeline horse archers.
    I was very lucky in the game: Mt K nearby, first ruin was an upgrade, second(?) was culture, and
    a pair of scouts could keep Alex from settling any cities as he was on a narrow strip of land.

    Vadalaz's "greek liberation" is pretty amazing.
     
  7. vadalaz

    vadalaz Emperor

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    Yeah, Greek liberation is all about syncing your culture and conquest. Map luck plays a huge role in this, unfortunately. My first try was a turn 98 game as the Shoshone on what turned out to be a really bad Pangaea for fast conquest:

    20170507200136_1.jpg

    In this case, killing everyone took longer than finishing Liberty even with just one culture CS friend... Most of the maps I've rolled have been just about as bad so far. In my experience this tends to happen a lot with smaller Pangaeas.

    A couple of thoughts on what Zlither wrote above:

    - You don't necessarily need to build a road to your first victim's capital. Plant your Collective Rule expo close to the capital, gift it to the liberated AI and culture-bomb there. The AIs sometimes choose to raze the city, so to be safe you have to be able to perform the concert tour on the same turn as you gift the city.
    - Consider rolling for a starts that have potential for good culture pantheons. Silver/Gold or Wine/Incense are excellent since you don't need to improve the tiles for them to start generating culture.
    - I'd go Collective Rule first in most cases. I'm fairly sure a second city with a quick monument actually speeds up your Liberty finisher time, especially if it can benefit from a culture pantheon. I think it also makes sense to delay the free Golden Age and make it your second-to-last policy, so that you gain as much bonus culture from it as possible (from all the monuments in puppets/annexed cities)

    The Shoshone are great for this gauntlet in theory, but Small size really limits the number of ruins you get. The Huns, Venice and Spain should be really good here as well, not sure about Poland. Siam can work too.

    Turn 85 seems like a pretty realistic goal, sub-80 should be doable on a good map with some luck.

    Edit: in my second try as the Shoshone I had the conquest done by turn 76, but there wasn't a single cultural CS on the map, so it would've been a late turn 90s again. Should probably just discard maps that don't have a cultural CS nearby...
     
    Last edited: May 8, 2017
  8. vadalaz

    vadalaz Emperor

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    Third time's the charm and I almost hit my goal with a t86 victory as the Shoshone. Just one cultural CS and three hill capitals on this map, so there's some room for improvement. Did a cute little trick in the end there and expanded Te-Moak's borders with a Great General so that it'd save my Musician one turn of movement. Another tip is to keep your ally status with a CS by gifting it units you don't need (see the 4 archers in Kabul).
    20170508142720_1.jpg
     
  9. vadalaz

    vadalaz Emperor

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    Got a turn 77 victory as Poland. I finished Liberty on turn 68, and the finisher policy would've normally cost 345 culture, so you could say the UA was equivalent to about 5 culture per turn in that game. Few civs can match that and they aren't nearly as consistent.
     
  10. billybgame

    billybgame Prince

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    Geez....I realize I've yet to even get a Warlord victory, so I'll take any I can get. But, when I read someone getting cultural victories on turn 77, and I am on turn 383, it makes my eyebrows raise. Never been one for gimmicky victory efforts....but obviously I've some reading to do about quick cultural victories! I just took my first map, settled in place, and have gone from there...not even close to victory. But, again, since it'll be my first ever Warlord victory, I'll take it. I'm just getting somewhat comfortable with cultural victories, let alone how to use loopholes for crazy early wins. Sounds like Firaxis really screwed this aspect up, if this can be done.
     
  11. zenmaster

    zenmaster King Supporter

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    The "Greek Liberation" cultural victory makes thematic sense in that if you're controlling almost the whole world and culturally dominate the lone surviving rival civ, you could rightly assert cultural victory! :)

    The "Sacred Sites" Cultural Victory presumes your religion and its cultural history and treasures dominate the spiritual realm of the world. Less clear on theme, but not totally unreasonable. It also is a type of victory that relies almost totally on faith, and thus it is different from most victories in which either military might and/or technological prowess sees you dominate the world. This uniqueness makes it interesting, at least.

    Below is a summary of the ways you can achieve cultural victory I wrote up in response to a question during a previous gauntlet.

    Hi,

    hard to tell what strategy you're attempting, as generating faith and conquering don't need to go hand in hand; I'll give a quick rundown on the methods to Culture Victory just to try to cover all the bases and answer your question:

    1) The "Standard" Way

    How to Generate Tourism: Build culture-producing buildings (amphitheater, opera house, museum etc.) and wonders (Parthenon, Sistine Chapel, etc.) and then fill them with Great Works you create with Great Artists, Writers, and Musicians, and also with artifacts you dig up with archaeologists. These Great Works generate your tourism. Later buildings like airports and hotels also significantly boost tourism.

    Conquest?: Not necessary, and often detracts from your tourism creation; however, each AI civ you wipe out makes it easier to win by having one less civ to be influential over. Can't conquer them all though, as that is a domination victory :).

    2) Build Sacred Sites

    How to Generate Tourism: Get a religion and choose the beliefs that let you build sacred buildings with faith (Mosques, Pagodas, and/or Monasteries). Then go down the Piety Social Policy Tree until you get Reformation. Choose the Sacred Sites reformation belief and you will generate 2 Tourism per faith building.

    Conquest?: Same as above-- Not necessary, and often detracts from your Sacred Site creation; however, each AI civ you conquer, makes it easier to win.

    3) Using Liberty and AI Liberation

    (100% credit goes to Vadalaz for figuring out this possibility!)

    How to Generate Tourism: You generate tourism generally in one way at one time-- Have a Great Musician do a Concert Tour in a civ that has less than 100 culture (on standard speed), when no other AI civs are remaining in the game.

    Conquest?: Here is the process: Conquer an AI civ before it gets to 100 culture on Standard Speed (150 on Epic Speed); Then wipe out all the other civs but one; Then gift the sub-100-culture capital to the last remaining Civ. Hopefully that civ will liberate the sub-100 culture AI civ and bring it back into the game. You then quickly destroy the liberator civ before the sub-100 culture civ gets over 100 culture. You have a Great Musician (obtained as reward for completing the Liberty SP tree) do a Concert Tour in the sub-100 culture civ. The tour creates a default value 100 Tourism Points even though you are generating no tourism. If that civ is still under 100 Culture and is the only AI civ left in the game, you win!

    I usually call this the Greek Liberation strategy as Greece is one civ that will reliably liberate a capital gifted to it more often than not. Gifting other civs that sub-100 culture capital often will not get the city liberated and thus the strategy is moot.

    ---

    That's it, in a nutshell. Hope you find it helpful.
     
  12. Denniz

    Denniz Where's my breakfast? Retired Moderator Hall of Fame Staff

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    Gauntlet Results:
    G-Minor CXLIII - Culture, Warlord, Small, Pangaea, Epic, Any Leader Prince, Standard, Archipelago, Marathon, Venice (Enrico Dandolo)[/b]
    1st zenmaster - 2200 BC T-72
    2nd vadalaz - 2075 BC T-77
    3rd zlither - 1875 BC T-85

    Congratulations!
     
  13. zenmaster

    zenmaster King Supporter

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    Hong Kong
    I snuck in a couple games late with the same theme to them: Mt. Kilimanjaro FTW.

    My original couple tries focused on Spain, as it is ALWAYS the default best choice for a "choice of any civ" gauntlet. I had wanted a culture natural wonder like Kilimanjaro or Mt. Fuji, but took what I could get from early NW find cash and added benefits.

    Gave the Aztecs one try as they get culture from killing units. I knew finishing Liberty would take longer than conquering the AI civs on Epic speed. I just could not kill enough barbs and enemies on Epic to get enough culture to speed finishing Liberty enough. I thought about trying again with Aztecs on "Raging Barbarians" setting for added culture, but thought that might slow down conquest too much.

    Poland was my third choice. Lo and behold, I got a start almost right next to Mt. Kilimanjaro. The added culture from turn 1 and more importantly the mountain movement bonus for all my troops got me a T75 win just under vadalaz' effort.

    After seeing what Poland did with Kilimanjaro, I knew Spain could do even better with it, as 6 food and 4 culture from early turns would go a long way with the movement bonus and Spain's cash bonus for finding it. Managed a T72 finish with a cap next to Kilimanjaro, having to spend 6 turns or so to get there.

    Any civ gauntlets are always fun to experiment with.
     

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