[GS] Game Analysis?

[dbwithlemon]

I mostly just lurk on here and only rarely sign in to post, but over time, the idea that my gameplay is off is creeping up on me.

I usually play deity, quick, standard size, shuffle with balanced starts.

I almost always play peacefully and rarely build more than 1 Archer per city.
I very rarely chop, and I play tall(usually stopping at 4 cities).
I almost always get a religion, regardless of my planned victory type(s).
I also usually play towards 2 different victory types at once, just in case.
<Edit>
I allow myself one reroll in case of a bad map, but I have to take the second. And I dont restart saves, even if I lose an important wonder.
</Edit>

The general information on the forums is that those are all sub optimal choices, yet the only times I lose is to a very early rush from a too-close enemy(before turn 15 or so). Or to a religious victory that sneaks in a win before I can (if I didn't get a religion myself to stop it).

I'm not a bad player, but I know I'm not that good to beat what seems universally accepted as multiple bad choices every game. I can easily win every VC except Domination, though I find religion tedious and avoid it. Leaving science, culture and Diplo as my most used.

Is there an easy way to analyze someone's gameplay without watching hours of replays?
I'd love to be able to share advice with people, but the advice I see given frequently on here flys in the face of everything I would advise.

 

[Victoria]

Is there an easy way to analyze someone's gameplay without watching hours of replays?

There are standard approaches as you have seen discussed but you do not need them. You can win with one city on deity so why not 4, in fact I find 4 quite interesting but I do chop etc.

However... with the last release things have got a bit more agressive and the AI is starting to chop also... Before the patch it tended not to win on deity before T300 normal speed and now it is a little faster.... so maybe this is why your game is seeming a bit off?... the AI is not starting to do the efficiencies you do not do.

 

[dbwithlemon]

My apologies for not being clear, it's consistent for me. Just finished a science game with brazil over the weekend where I was also leading in culture and diplomatic points.

What I meant is that it seems off compared to what I read, it feels counterproductive to give advice on here when the overwhelming base of advice is opposite mine in most every category.

And side note, I picked 4 so I could be lazy in mental calculations for luxuries, which are vital for multiple cuties pushing 20-30 pop.

 

[Victoria]

Well lemon DB you consistently win on deity online with 4 cities... there are people screaming out for tall strategies.often some of us wanting to talk mechanics get blinded by fast rather than tall.
4 cities can be a population based beastie, I would love to hear you outline your strategy and tips. Loads of people would give it a go, certainly tips on the start but also all the way through.

 

[dbwithlemon]

That's what I'd like to do, other than logging my turns and choices, any tools I could analyze an old save file or for a game in progress? Or simply log it myself?

If I do have to do it myself, I'll do a write up of and my choices and make a manual save every 25 turns for people to look at. Unless someone has a better methodology.

 

[Bangau]

I'd welcome a different perspective on deity strategies! I like playing different styles every game, perhaps your approach gives me new ideas. There are some things in CIV VI that are universally seen as 'good' and 'bad' play, but fortunately the game works in such a manner that many different strategies can be used to win. Some are definitely more efficient (i.e. give faster win times) than others, but many are effective. If you can beat deity consistently you must know about the truly 'bad' plays and found strategies that can beat deity. I'm curious to read about them.

 

[Bliss]

You should check out the Game of The Month board. People use the same game file there and share different approaches.

 

[Victoria]

I could be lazy in mental calculations for luxuries, which are vital for multiple cuties pushing 20-30 pop.

BTW, I played a game where my self imposed VC was 10 pop 30 cities. I really did not find luxuries vital, amenities in general had to be pushed but I think I only had 8 luxe’s at the end of the game. There is plenty of amenity sources but sure, with only 4 cities, having them ecstatic I guess is more important.

 

[Ihodael]

dbwithlemon,

I'm also a forum lurker with a similar playstyle. Would love to see your notes for comparison.

Thanks

 

[dbwithlemon]

I started my game the other night, I still haven't finished it yet, but I'm at a point where victory is just finishing the grind of a science victory.
These are the settings, and starting location.
Deity
Shuffle Map
Online Speed
Standard Size
Disaster Intensity 4

I usually do quick, but know people want info for online, so I went that route.

I moved to settle on the diamonds.
I'll write up some more detail, just wanted to throw this out there for those interested in seeing the game.

This game has gone horribly, in so many ways, but we learn from mistakes, so you get to see a lot of mine, and I'll update this with the final saves so we can show you can win Online Deity without going to war or city spamming.

 

[dbwithlemon]

Some big points.

Targeting a science victory.
Got the 2nd religion, for base benefits, but mainly as a defensive measure to not lose to a religious victory.

Starting spot is good, but not good for going really tall, so I've not even hot 20 pop yet.

Around turn 60 jadwiga hit me with a surprise war that lasted around 50 turns. I tried to maintain only 5 military units total, but she was particularly aggressive and I was killing 2-3 units a turn for the duration of the war.
I eventually bought an extra unit and pushed her closest city until she was willing to pay for peace so I didn't take it.
Current army is 4 field cannons, 1 musketeer and 1 AT crew.

I've lost 4-5 wonders mid production, including Oxford which is annoying.
In the last 10 turns or so, I noticed Eleanor getting closer on culture. So I threw up a pair of theater districts to offset, coupled with moon landing, I should be able to fend it off easy enough.

Getting this far with only one war, a defensive one requires knowing how the diplomacy system works.
When you first meet someone, always offer a delegation turn one, it can get in before the negative first impressions penalty hits.

After that, it takes carefully timed bribery. Ideally you want to send someone a trade route, give them open borders and a gift all in one turn.
Timing this around era change is helpful as many civs have agendas based on golden or dark ages.
You get a sizeable bonus from gifts, new luxuries and strategic resources work best. Once someone is willing to declare friendship with you, they will be your friend/ally for the remainder of the game, no matter what you do.
Side note for those who don't know, you/the AI cannot declare war on a declared friend, and if you renew friendships the turn they expire, the AI doesn't say no.
Maybe it's an exploit, haven't dug into it enough to know, but it makes avoiding war easy.

 

[Ihodael]

Ty for the info.

Also, if interested (apologies if you already know it), take a look at Production from Population which makes tall much more viable (author has a bunch of other mods to enhance tall, but I find this one to be the most significant). You never get the speed that others get with wide-builder play, but it makes tall-builder less challenging.

Also since the AI gets the same advantage, I consider it a fairly balanced mod.

 

[Bangau]

Got the 2nd religion, for base benefits, but mainly as a defensive measure to not lose to a religious victory.

I've seen AI get close to a religious victory with 8 players, but never close enough to win it. Have seen them win it with 6 players or less. In this case I think you could probably have skipped a religion if you didn't plan on using the beliefs and faith. Those can be very beneficial for a science victory though, I often go for it if I can.

new luxuries and strategic resources work best.

I find that diplo favor works great. If they like it, iirc only 10 DP gives a boost of +10. If they don't care much for DP 20 or so still gives that boost to your relation. One of the reasons I often go for early suzerainty. Very early neighbours this doesn't work for off course, so bribing them with gold and luxuries you don't need works good as well.

Nice to read about your game. I second @Bliss : join the GOTM games! It's fun seeing how others played compared to how you choose to play a certain map.

 

[dbwithlemon]

Here is the final save the turn before victory.

I've tried the production from population mod and I like it, but it makes things way easier and I didn't want to rely on that for this test.
I only had 3 mods turned on for this. 2 were UI mods and the last adds new historical religion options(no beliefs, just new new and icons).

As to not needing a religion. You are correct the AI doesn't often pull out a win, but it does happen and I like to cut out that possibility. Especially if I plan to only have a few cities and don't want to conquer anyone.

That being said, I've gotten used to adapting to the religion to compensate for the production loss.
Choral music is amazing for compensating for an early culture deficit, and abusing monumentality for mass worker purchasing can help recover from the early loss of getting a religion.

Trading Diplo is a good plan, but j often use Diplo as a backup victory plan and getting those early votes right can be a big factor in that.

Turn 174 win for an Online speed Deity science win. By no means optimal, but optimal is a lot less fun to me.