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[R&F] Game exploits to avoid that can ruin the experience

Discussion in 'Civ6 - General Discussions' started by Ansive, Jan 13, 2019.

  1. Ansive

    Ansive Chieftain

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    About war and trading away your resources.
    It might be acceptable to sell your resources if you are going for a surprise war, but at least not in the same turn. If it's something a real leader would do, sure. Or even if you denounce the next turn and declare in 5 turns. But not OK for emergencies.

    About City State surround
    In R&F if you are suzerain when they attack you can denounce and get a Cassus Belli. (one of them, the protection or the liberation one, even lets you declare war on the same turn, though that might be a bug)
    I just feel it is a bit gamey to block the AI from taking the city AND avoiding war with them at the same time.
    Of course, when it's your friends attacking your city states... that's just wrong.

    About district pre-placement
    This seems OK to me since it is a trade off
    You get a somewhat cheaper district but:
    - you commit to building it one day so you lose the flexibility of building something else instead
    - you lose the tile right away (which is why I rarely do it)
    - the tile needs to be in your city radius (range 3 tiles are expensive)
    - your city population needs to be big enough to permit building the district
    - if the price was discounted (few districts of this type) other cities might have to build at the full price
    And it could make sense lore wise - "the city has started planning on building that district" even though it is working on something else.

    Goodie huts
    I usually wait with my unit if I'm 1 or 2 turns away from city growth, or research/policy completion without boost. I take whatever I get and move on. (it's crazy when you get an early game relic)
     
  2. TheMeInTeam

    TheMeInTeam Top Logic

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    I'm actually impressed you have the patience. To me that's a bigger detractor than any potential advantage could confer in compensation.
     
  3. UWHabs

    UWHabs Warlord

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    I still haven't figured out which CB let you declare right after denouncing, and when you need to wait. I know if they denounce you you can always CB them immediately, but I've seen the options other times when I know I haven't waited the 5 turns and never figured it out.

    District pre-placement I used to consider an exploit, but recently, I've changed my mind on it. Maybe something has changed in the game, but I never really feel that the "pre-placed" districts actually end up any cheaper than the "new" ones, or if they are, the conditions you list there seem to be enough of a dis-incentive that it no longer really feels like I'm "cheating" the system anymore. Plus, more than once, I've "pre-placed" a district in a city, and then I roll around to another city and suddenly that type no longer has the discount on it, and I suddenly feel sad because I would rather this new city have been the one to get the discount, for one reason or another.
     
  4. Starwars

    Starwars Chieftain

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    I periodically reload maps. My patience for that varies a lot. I can be a fan of playing a "bad start" but it kinda depends on what kind of bad it is. I don't like it when my settling opportunies are immediately cut off because the enemy civs is spawn right next door in a way that actually prevent you from expanding and you just know that, yes, it will be one of those games where it's all out war again. To me it's like... it happens too much. And sometimes I just don't have the patience for it whatsoever.
    I think it's my biggest problem with the game at the moment, maybe even moreso than the AI, how map generation and spawns tend to work.

    The overflow stuff is a bit... I don't know. I have done it, and I do it sometimes but I never plan for it to make use of it in an optimal way because... well, I always feel like I'm cheesing it. Plus, now I'm trying to get into the swing of things with how GS will change it up.

    I have definitely done the "surround city-state" stuff because of reasons others have listed. There are times when there is just no proper game mechanic to react to the AI declaring war on city-states, or to prevent them to. It feels like there is something missing.

    Something I feel bad about at times, but which is definitely not an exploit because it's specifically about the game rules, is using certain long range units. Like artillery with a balloon/drone. I mean, the AI sucks at defending but it's just even more noticeable when you get that kind of range on units. It's not hard to take down cities with a single artillery and balloon and then just drive in with whatever melee unit you have.
    It almost feels like an exploit but yeah... it really shouldn't because it's just the way the rules are and the AI can't handle it.
     
    Stringer1313 likes this.
  5. UWHabs

    UWHabs Warlord

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    Personally I don't have a problem with re-rolling maps. I mean, if I'm going to dedicate 5-10 hours or more to a game, I want to make sure I'm going to enjoy myself. Sometimes it means playing a "tough" start because I want a challenge (and because sometimes those games will only take 15 minutes until i get steamrolled by the AI :p), but to me, there's not really any point to playing a game as Norway if I'm not by the water. If I want to play a civ with no bonuses, then I'll play as Georgia.
     
  6. steveg700

    steveg700 Warlord

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    Some pretty questionable things here are labeled as "exploits". How deep does that rabbit hole go?

    Is choosing Divine Spark exploitive because it's a really good pantheon that the AI devalues to the point of never choosing it?

    How about giving gifts to gain diplomatic bonuses? AI overvalues luxuries, and it's not hard for a player to make enough gold to throw it around casually.

    Or establishing a cultural alliance with a civ, and then discontinuing it off after they settle a bunch of cities that will now be subject to loyalty pressure from you?
     
  7. Archon_Wing

    Archon_Wing Vote for me or die

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    If only we had a functional notification system.
     
  8. Ziad

    Ziad Warlord

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    Its not so much about a perfect start as much as an appropriate one (in my subjective view).

    It's a downside of roleplaying. Having preconceived notions of how a game should play out is what leads to this.

    A while ago I decided to just play on 22 civ huge Mediterranean maps to avoid this. Less exploration fun but more historical (and what if) fun so it works out.

    Although now that I've picked up DeI Rome TW 2 I've found a far better channel for such roleplaying so I've gotten better at not restarting in the more randomized Civ setting hehe.

    I'm still not playing Desert Norway though.
     
  9. jddods

    jddods Chieftain

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    I agree an exploit is a value judgement, for some people they maybe a bit of fun.
     
  10. Ansive

    Ansive Chieftain

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    Divine Spark is more of a mid game policy. I'd rather get some faith generation instead, something to kick start me in the ancient era.
    In the early game you can get gold and make friends by trading, are you saying it's too cheap to get to friends? Maybe, but if you don't have an army the AI will still go to war with you. At least you can't buy other civs into warring with each other, that was crazy in civ 4. If I'm doing too good I noticed the AI will not give me any more gold.
    Planning a loyalty trap using a cultural alliance sounds really fun, I never considered it.
     
  11. greenblade

    greenblade Chieftain

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    In my opinion, protecting City State with units is probably not worth banning. But stealing a CS from AI is a pretty bad exploit. When you see an AI attacking a CS, you can declare war on the CS, send your warrior standing next to the city center, and take the city when the AI beats it to low health points.
     
  12. ezzlar

    ezzlar Chieftain

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    Since it's an island I was thinking about the navy! Anyhow, back to to topic! :)
     
  13. Greywulf

    Greywulf Chieftain

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    Oh I'm guilty of this one...I'm very protective over my CS friends.
     
  14. Tech Osen

    Tech Osen Warlord

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    I'd never do that, (if for no other reason that it takes me 5 minutes or more to reload.) :nono:
     
    Ansive likes this.
  15. Ondolindë

    Ondolindë Warlord

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    Why would this even be considered an exploit? You’re choosing to defend your friends. I do not get it.
     
    Greywulf likes this.
  16. Ansive

    Ansive Chieftain

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    Because you are not at war with the AI.
    Imagine all the City State army was defeated and the AI has 2 cannons a few cavalry and some muskets. He can't do anything to take the city. He's not smart enough to declare war on you since you are in his way.
     
  17. steveg700

    steveg700 Warlord

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    After you've got your pantheon, how is faith going to kickstart your civ?

    Divine Spark is baller in a game where GP generation is just about district spam. It kicks in as soon as the player starts dropping districts, and lasts for the rest of the game.

    The AI doesn't give me you gifts, does it? It always expects something in return.

    From what I can tell, it takes little to dissuade an AI from attacking. The diplo bonuses for bribery need to be scaled a bit better. Luxuries simply aren't that important because the unhappiness penalty is mild. Gold gifts are too potent because spamming cities for trade routes is such an easy route.

    Oh, it is. And the AI doesn't react to loyalty-flipping as if the player swiped a city from them.
     
  18. WillowBrook

    WillowBrook Lurker

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    Nothing wrong with exploits - as used here, it's pretty much anything that someone might think was an unintended or unsportsmanlike way to play. Or a way that the AI is incapable of playing. There's no moral judgment on people using or not using them in single player.

    Divine spark? It's a pantheon any civ can pick. I don't see how you could argue against it, unless there's a use I'm unaware of?

    Now, setting up a loyalty trap with a cultural alliance? That's clever. Some might call it an exploit, as the AI isn't designed to do it. But I think I might try it one of these days.... :mischief:
     
  19. steveg700

    steveg700 Warlord

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    Yes, it's a matter of pleasure becoming "guilty pleasure", which largely means it's fun the first time, but when it sinks in that the AI has no means of response, it diminishes the sense of accomplishment in playing the game as a whole.
     
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  20. Alexadamz

    Alexadamz Chieftain

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    I guess the only real exploit in the game is the production overflow from chopping. Some could argue that I don't play well if I don't use that thing, but I have never used overflow - neither with cards nor with Magnus. Maybe that will mean I will be readier to play GS, if the overflow changes are indeed a game changing mechanic. All the rest I don't think are a real exploit - the cultural alliance trap is really interesting, I want to try it once.
     

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