Gatling Range?

[galacticrevenge]

There was a gatling gun in a city that I was attacking and it was able to shoot my units from 2 hexs away even though the gatling gun only has a range of 1. Do the machine guns and gatling get a range bonus inside cities?

 

[bonafide11]

Was it English? Could've been a promoted Longbowman with its increased range promotion.

 

[jimbbq]

i am always wondering... what is the point of gatling guns/machine gun with only 1 range!?!?!

 

[Gali]

they can take hits and fire. BY firing instead of attacking they take less damage. Give em cover, and they make good siege meatshields who can contribute damage without killing themselves.

Oh and their high strength makes them very deadly on defense.

 

[dac050]

I also like to use them to shoot at ships and landing forces that get too close before they decide to land.

 

[StukaScream]

i am always wondering... what is the point of gatling guns/machine gun with only 1 range!?!?!

The point is they can fire and do damage while stationary. Instead of charging in and losing hitpoints. IMO its quite cool, and more realistic. I would like to have archers also this way, because its not realistic having long range on archers like cannons and siege weapons.

I hope its possible to mod it, making them able to defend a little better as tradeoff and decrease range to 1. Archers were not bad for defending a position in the old days, and in previous civ games they were main defense unit for cities.

Crossbows realistically also have much shorter range, so it should be the same for it.
Gatling guns would then be a replacement for outdated crossbowmen in that case.
So IMO all these should have some defense capability for holding a position on the map (like gatling gun currently have) but not too high because of game balance.

Someone who modded this already?

 

[RealHuhn]

The point is they can fire and do damage while stationary. Instead of charging in and losing hitpoints. IMO its quite cool, and more realistic. I would like to have archers also this way, because its not realistic having long range on archers like cannons and siege weapons.

I hope its possible to mod it, making them able to defend a little better as tradeoff and decrease range to 1. Archers were not bad for defending a position in the old days, and in previous civ games they were main defense unit for cities.

Crossbows realistically also have much shorter range, so it should be the same for it.
Gatling guns would then be a replacement for outdated crossbowmen in that case.
So IMO all these should have some defense capability for holding a position on the map (like gatling gun currently have) but not too high because of game balance.

Someone who modded this already?

This wouldn't make any sense whatsoever. In battle, archers always formed a line behind the melee troops and had very light armor.

On topic: +1 range promotion or upgraded longbowmen.

 

[GeoNZ]

I have to say that I have seen this too when fighting Sweden (so it can't have been the Longbow upgrade). I would normally have said that it was a range upgrade, but it was on every one of his gunners, including those coming fresh from cities. It was very annoying when my gunners couldn't fire back at them.

Anyone have any more thoughts on this? Could it be a bug? I would be surprised if all their new gunners had that range upgrade.

On another note, I think the idea of the 1 range gunners defending and being able to bombard back is really awesome. But what irks me is that they were upgrades from units with 2 range. This implies that the new weapons have half the range of those previous. I would love to see the crossbow that has twice the range of an MG. However, I do see the idea they were going with, it's just that the realism side of me is a little peeved.

 

[Barghaest]

Yeah, I always had issues with Archers having a range of 2. It makes sense for the 1UPT perspective but would work better on a larger scale map (where rivers were 1 tile instead of just borders between them). What they should do is allow limited military unit stacking (2 units) then they could drop archers range down to 1 and just have you stack them with one melee guard (spears usually).

Hrm... I might try that in my mod, remove archers from the military stack limit and reduce their range to 1 - of course this will cause issues with town garrisons since they'll likely keep civilians (primarily worker/inq) from sharing the tile...

 

[bonafide11]

i am always wondering... what is the point of gatling guns/machine gun with only 1 range!?!?!

They're actually quite powerful.

 

[mabalogna]

These are great defensive units in rough terrain, and in open terrain they get first strike.

My only beef is that they can get 2 range, something i'd like to see gone. I dont even think Archers should get this promotion - maybe switch Logistics with the ignore terrain cost promotion scouts get so they can set up in hill/forests and shoot in the same turn, but not logistics. Logistics should really just be for Artillery - but thats just me

 

[Wolfbeckett]

I have to say that I have seen this too when fighting Sweden (so it can't have been the Longbow upgrade). I would normally have said that it was a range upgrade, but it was on every one of his gunners, including those coming fresh from cities. It was very annoying when my gunners couldn't fire back at them.

Anyone have any more thoughts on this? Could it be a bug? I would be surprised if all their new gunners had that range upgrade.

On another note, I think the idea of the 1 range gunners defending and being able to bombard back is really awesome. But what irks me is that they were upgrades from units with 2 range. This implies that the new weapons have half the range of those previous. I would love to see the crossbow that has twice the range of an MG. However, I do see the idea they were going with, it's just that the realism side of me is a little peeved.

Maybe he had enough military buildings (barracks/armory/etc.) to automatically get them the upgrade upon production?

 

[ShredZ]

+1 range promotion people, I have lots of range 2 machine guns, they are amazing.

 

[bryanw1995]

Wow...2 range gatling guns are better than old-school canons against cities, and even start to make sense as an alternative to artillery against units at least. I haven't gotten any bow units up to 100 xp yet, but I think that I would prioritize 2 attacks/turn over extended range in most cases.

 

[gaiko]

The existence of Gats is an admission by the G&K developers that the original 1UPT design concept was a mistake. A Gat is basically a 36 strength melee unit stacked with a range unit with the range unit using the melee's strength instead of its own, and with range cut to 1 because you don't need to "shoot over" an intervening hex just because everything is arbitrarily limited to 1UPT. But the range unit (in the Gat case) is definitely "shooting from behind" the melee unit, because it is using the melee unit's strength to defend in the hex it occupies.

The fact that now you can now stack 3 different units in a sea hex is another admission of the failure of this design.

Now if they had only effing though of that in the first place! Along with STACKED MOVEMENT, so we can also be done with the tedium of M1UAAT (move one unit at a time). Still gotta move those sea stacks M1UAAT!

Limited stacks. Moving stacks as a single unit. What ingenious concepts!

 

[Lyoncet]

The existence of Gats is an admission by the G&K developers that the original 1UPT design concept was a mistake.

No it's not. Nor is it on topic.

 

[bryanw1995]

@Gaiko: I disagree completely. They included the gatling gun so that archer/xbow promotions weren't wasted when you upgraded. Also, note that the xbox is nearly 1:1 with cp vs ranged (13cp for defense vs 18 ranged), and all ranged units have better cp today than they did before the vanilla patches started rolling in.

If they wanted to go to 2 upt or unlimited upt for that matter, they would have done it. They either really like 1 upt still, or they decided that it was so a PITA to get rid of that they're going to wait until cVI.

 

[WeneedmoreCivs]

The existence of Gats is an admission by the G&K developers that the original 1UPT design concept was a mistake. A Gat is basically a 36 strength melee unit stacked with a range unit with the range unit using the melee's strength instead of its own, and with range cut to 1 because you don't need to "shoot over" an intervening hex just because everything is arbitrarily limited to 1UPT. But the range unit (in the Gat case) is definitely "shooting from behind" the melee unit, because it is using the melee unit's strength to defend in the hex it occupies.

The fact that now you can now stack 3 different units in a sea hex is another admission of the failure of this design.

Now if they had only effing though of that in the first place! Along with STACKED MOVEMENT, so we can also be done with the tedium of M1UAAT (move one unit at a time). Still gotta move those sea stacks M1UAAT!

Limited stacks. Moving stacks as a single unit. What ingenious concepts!

Call to Power 2 had this best, you could group units together as a single fighting force and there was a limit of 12 (I'd lower it to 4) units. The coolest thing was that you could name your groups, so I'd group 12 Moray Strikers together and call it "The 1st Moray Attack Group" and have an army of 6 Hover Infantry units, 4 Fusion tanks and 2 Leviathans and call it "1st Land Battle Group".

That being said, I actually think the CiV combat system is the best since CTP2. I rather like 1UPT, even if it does create issues sometimes, because it keeps the computer from sneaking up with a stack of 9 horsemen from out of the fog and taking a city before you even have time to realize an attack is coming.

 

[civnoob13]

The existence of Gats is an admission by the G&K developers that the original 1UPT design concept was a mistake. A Gat is basically a 36 strength melee unit stacked with a range unit with the range unit using the melee's strength instead of its own, and with range cut to 1 because you don't need to "shoot over" an intervening hex just because everything is arbitrarily limited to 1UPT. But the range unit (in the Gat case) is definitely "shooting from behind" the melee unit, because it is using the melee unit's strength to defend in the hex it occupies.

The fact that now you can now stack 3 different units in a sea hex is another admission of the failure of this design.

Now if they had only effing though of that in the first place! Along with STACKED MOVEMENT, so we can also be done with the tedium of M1UAAT (move one unit at a time). Still gotta move those sea stacks M1UAAT!

Limited stacks. Moving stacks as a single unit. What ingenious concepts!

1UPT is an incredible improvement in the old system. It makes past iterations absolutely laughable in terms of combat. Just because you don't like it doesn't mean that the whole of firaxis agrees with you and are just being sneaky about it by adding a few more units.

 

[Huaojozu]

1UPT is the future. With processing power expected to double again before civ VI, the AI will be able to make much more complex calculations in the same time frame as today, therefore significantly improving it's tactical capabilities.

Expect 1 UPT to stay and the AI to improve over time. Anything else would really be a step back. My dream would be to see a civ game realized, where formation of units would actually be key to a won battle. Pretty much the system we have now but with many, many more hexes and units on them.