GE strat

[ShredZ]

At first this was done by accident, now Im trying to perfect it a bit. I know the first thing the nay-sayers will say is that my genepool, oh no wait, my GPP are contaminated too much, but Im not as picky as some...

Anyways, I got a start with stone real close by, so I thought Id trying getting GW and Pyramids, playing a philo civ really helped. I do believe that before I finished Pyramids I got my first GE, so I waited till it was done then rushed the Parthenon. So my next GE came even faster, allowing me to rush HG. Soon after I rushed the GL, built Heroic Epic (100%GPP?) and then I snagged some of the nonessential ones like Collosus and GL.

If you deversify your GPP enough, you will consistantly get GE allowing more and more Wonders. Its slightly addicting so try it at yer own risk. The only problem is that there are too many Wonder in the beginning of the game that give GProphetPoints, Oracle, Parth, Stonehenge (Chitchanitza?)... you need to stay away from those or build them in yer second city, otherwise youll get too many GP.

I think I took a SS of my city, I had basically all the Wonder from the beginning of the game on Monarch level. It became a chore to finish that game as it was pretty much wrapped up before 1AD.

Thoughts?

 

[Cam_H]

ShredZ,

My first thought is 'well done'. If you can get The Pyramids without sacrificing too much in the way of other early-game objectives, then 'great'.

It does remind me a bit of the 'OMG! Futurehermit's Gandhi Opening on Emperor' thread that you might find of interest.

 

[svv]

Don't build heroic epic there (pair it with West Point in another, high-hammer city). Instead, build national epic, and save the other slot for ironworks (which you should get by targeting steel asap). Get metal casting early, build a forge, and hire an engineer specialist. Build great wall, pyramids, hanging gardens, and Hagia Sophia in that city. I also build other wonders, especially including Great Library, but also other useful things. This pollutes the great engineer points somewhat, but I find I still get enough great engineers for what I want to do.

When you get ironworks, hire three more engineer specialists. Get a factory when you can to hire two more.

Later, build pentagon and (if you have a river) Three Gorges there. I also like to build other late non-engineer wonders, including statue of liberty, eiffel tower, and UN. I find it's ok to build merchant wonders because (1) there will still be few merchant points, and (2) I don't mind getting great merchants too much anyway.

I do try to avoid building great artist wonders (except national epic) in my great engineer farm.

 

[LuckyAC]

Why did you wait until Pyramids was done to rush Parthenon?

 

[axident]

At first this was done by accident, now Im trying to perfect it a bit. I know the first thing the nay-sayers will say is that my genepool, oh no wait, my GPP are contaminated too much, but Im not as picky as some...

Anyways, I got a start with stone real close by, so I thought Id trying getting GW and Pyramids, playing a philo civ really helped. I do believe that before I finished Pyramids I got my first GE, so I waited till it was done then rushed the Parthenon. So my next GE came even faster, allowing me to rush HG. Soon after I rushed the GL, built Heroic Epic (100%GPP?) and then I snagged some of the nonessential ones like Collosus and GL.

If you deversify your GPP enough, you will consistantly get GE allowing more and more Wonders. Its slightly addicting so try it at yer own risk. The only problem is that there are too many Wonder in the beginning of the game that give GProphetPoints, Oracle, Parth, Stonehenge (Chitchanitza?)... you need to stay away from those or build them in yer second city, otherwise youll get too many GP.

I think I took a SS of my city, I had basically all the Wonder from the beginning of the game on Monarch level. It became a chore to finish that game as it was pretty much wrapped up before 1AD.

Thoughts?

I either rush early or rush slightly-less-early after building the "three stone wonder" triad: stonehenge, GW, and Pyramids. Anything after that is gravy, though I typically lose the race to every other early wonder and don't get another one until Great Library. By the way, Philo/Industrious was a valid trait combo back in beta testing, I think, but they took that out because it was too strong; you could basically pull wonder after wonder and great person after great person.

If you play your cards right, you also can get free Great People from discovering techs first. If you settle all GP of all types in your capital (except maybe a GE or two for rushing early wonders like Parthenon that you'd normally skip, and a GS for an Academy, and a GP for holy shrine), your capital with bureaucracy, representation, mercantilism, Statue of Liberty, National Epic, and Oxford will be insane. And that's withOUT philo + industrious.

 

[gettingfat]

re. the OP, I am not sure if you really meant putting the Parthenon in the pyramid/GW city. That's a no-no, unless you really want GA.

IMHO, putting the Heroic Epic in the Wonder city may not be the best idea. First it pollutes your GE production. Second you are trapped in between using this city for military production and Wonder/GPP generation. I'll pick the second most productive city for the HE, settle a GG there if available, and keep the 2nd national wonder slot for the West point.

If you build GL in that city and then the national epic, basically it's really hard to control the type of GP. I sometimes do that when I can't find another suitable GP farm city for the GL. But if this type of city is available I'll separate the GL from pyramid/GW, so later I can build the Hagia and forge in that GE city and I can still control whether I want GE or GS.

 

[nealhunt]

Even before the introduction of the Great Wall in Warlords I had a strategy that I half-jokingly referred to as my "Great Engineer Strat."

Build pyramids early. GE appears about the time I get an Aqueduct built in the same city, then pops Hanging Gardens. Build Forge and run an Engineer. Pop Hagia Sophia with the next GE and the city's running 9 GE points before any bonuses.

Throw the Wall into the mix and the whole thing starts rolling sooner, though Pyramids are a bit harder to come by after their hammer increase.

 

[oyzar]

Heh i had a game on monarch as ramses where i had marble in my first city and stone in my second one. I got temple of artemis pyramids pantheon oracle and tons of other wonders. With idousrious and the reasource building pyramids isnt that expencive at 181 hammers with monotheism.

 

[ShredZ]

...Instead, build national epic, and save the other slot for ironworks (which you should get by targeting steel asap).merchants too much anyway...

Yea, thats what I meant, thats why I put "100% GPP?" after heroic epic, I forgot the name of National Epic, doh!

Why did you wait until Pyramids was done to rush Parthenon?

I was half way thru Mids at the time, too bad you dont get overflow from GEs.

re. the OP, I am not sure if you really meant putting the Parthenon in the pyramid/GW city. That's a no-no, unless you really want GA.

Why? How many GA GPPs does Parth put towards a GA, like I said, I dont mind polluting my pool a bit.


One more thing I remembered, is the GW actually helps you continue with the 'All Wonders Strat' b/c you can leave yer military high n dry without worrying about barbs! fun fun fun~

 

[InFlux5]

I'm also starting to get addicted to an early Great Wall.

It's pretty easy to complete on Monarch - especially if you stick to one city. And the guaranteed GE gives you a diverse set of options to catapult your early game into the Classical era.

I used to build Stonehenge, but the GW surpasses it, in my opinion. The Great Wall is essentially two wonders.

As for building both the 'Henge and GW, I'm not putting that many hammers into wonders in the early game, personally. That's the whole point of the GW - you only have to build one wonder, then your engineers take care of the rest.

But the options that that first GE opens up are huge. In my current game I drew Korea on an Archipeligo Map. I build the GW asap, then was going to use the engineer for the Great Lighthouse - but was beat to it.

No problem; I pulled out all the stops to get Metal Casting, got a forge up in my capitol and built the Colossus instead. It had the same effect - my new island cities are paying for themselves very quickly without the need for cottages.

Yes, now the pool is "polluted" with Merchant points. But the capitol was the only place I could build a forge in time, and I needed the Colossus up yesterday. So you do what you got to do, managing your GPP the best you can.

But anyway, sorry for that tangent. The point is, the Great Wall rocks in many ways.

 

[snoopy369]

I'm not a big fan of rushing wonders with GEs ... I think if you settle your GEs, and run Representation in particular, you get a lot more in the long run out of a settled GE. I might rush the Pyramids (to ensure a stream of GEs), but beyond that I'm not really going to rush anything until the late game where the extra couple of hammers don't matter much.

 

[ShredZ]

Last night (still playing w/this strategy) I found another benefit to creating a stream of GEs.

My main city completely lacked hammers, the GL wouldve taken me 54 turns to build and I needed it in the main science city, luckily the GE gives you the freedom to place the wonder where ever you like, worked out very nicely.

I dont see why youd ever want to settle a GE, I just saved myself 50+ turns of building, plus I get to start on something else like military, plus I have my science city pumping out even more beakers.

The flexibility that GEs provides is a close 3rd when compared to Spiritual & Creative traits (whipping could be 4th).


I have a save game at home that Ill post that compliments this strategy and is quite perhaps the best starting location Ive ever seen.

 

[svv]

Playing Vanilla, on Noble, I managed to do this in my last game - even with a non-philosophical leader (Mansa Musa):

I didn't have any stone, so building the pyramids would have taken forever. After reseraching fishing to be able to use the seafood resources I had there, I beelined metal casting, built a forge with the chop and the whip as soon as I could, and hired my one engineer specialist. While my Great Engineer was slow cooking I researched masonry to be able to build the pyramids once my Great Engineer was born.

I've tried this before, even with philisophical civs, and failed - by the time I researched metal casting, built the forge, and cooked the great engineer, somebody had built the pyramids.

This time, though, I got there first! Pretty cool to build the pyramids without stone or being industrious, and without expending a single hammer.

Anyway, between the pyramids and my forge, I had a pretty good start on my Great Engineer Farm. I've managed to get all the great engineer wonders in there, and a few others, despite it being a very low-hammer city, mostly using the whip and Great Engineers.

 

[ShredZ]

Here that savegame at 4000BC if anyones interested. IIRC the settings are Fractal, Rocky, Normal, Monarch - but honestly I think this is more like a tough Prince game b/c of the sweet start. Give it a go if you like a strong capital city:

My only hint is that it is best to found yer city ON TOP of the stone. Not normally recommended I know, but youll see why once the BFC is revealed.

With this start you can get out yer worker, warrior, settler - then go wonder crazy for GEs to fuel even more.

http://shredz2001.homestead.com/files/SS/ShredZ_BC-4000.CivWarlordsSave

 

[kniteowl]

I never build the Pyramids, even if I have stone and Industrious, because I can always see a better oppotunity in warring and capturing that second capital from the AI which would be more beneficial in the long term with the exception of a Isolated start.

The only times I ever get the Pyramids are,
1) I capture it
2) Oracle Slingshot to MC, build a Forge in Food Surplus City and Assign an Engineer for a GE, If Pyramids aren't built then I rush it, if they are, I'll slingshot to Machinery for Early Mace as I'll beeline to CS. (Only done with a Philosophical Leader)
3) Build the great wall and assign two Scientist in same city and Pray for a GE, although a GS sin't bad either for an Academy or Philosophy Slingshot for the Pacifism Civic (100% towards GPP = more oppotunity for a GE) If I do get GEs, I'll either use them for (in this order) Mids=>GL=>HG=>Machinery=>Angkor Wat depending on situation and techs/wonders avilable. (Only done with an Industrious Leader, May also do with a non-industrious leader, but only If I have stone and ALOT of land that will not be settled immediately in the near future eg- Hige Strench of Ice/Tundra tiles that will never be settled therefore jeeping the brabs out with the GW is useful.

 

[cabert]

I dont see why you'd ever want to settle a GE

try a epic or slower game, and enjoy settling every GE and GG in your HE city.
Churning out level 5 or 6 cannons every turn is a really good reason to settle GEs.
This is what I did with cyrus at immortal level (WotM 7 test map).

Pyramids? I get them where they are
(untrue, I built them early to make all those settled guys give me beakers with representation, but you see my point)

 

[oyzar]

oracle for MV build forge run engineer then build another forge in another city and run engineer there as well build the pyramids with the firrst engineer in the second city to get the second one faster .

Nothing is like settling on a reasource on a plains hill. Stone or marble on a plains hill is just insane as it enables so fast starts its not funny.

 

[ShredZ]

I dont play Epic or slower games anymore, I used to but now I have kids so my time on the computer is too valuable to play a single cIV game for more than 30+ hours. I need instant gratification now. (notice the time [upper-right] in my SS, I only get to play after the kids go to sleep)


Mids + Rep. + 2 Scientists + early game = gain an early lead that is sometimes never surpassed. Throw in Financial and yer rockin'

If anyone plays my save game let me know how it turns out~

 

[futurehermit]

Points of advice:

1) Combining GW + Pyramids = good, if you have stone or are industrious w/some available chops. This is especially good with philo leader.

2) Use your GEs for hard-to-get wonders and don't put GA or GP wonders in your main GPP city (these guys kinda suck unless you specifically want them for something). What I mean by "hard-to-get" is 1) expensive and 2) you don't have the supporting resource (e.g., you don't have marble and want to rush the GL)

3) Support your production with the relevant great people. As was mentioned, beeline metal casting and run an eng to support your GE production

4) Try not to rush GE wonders just for the purposes of generating more GE. Seems kinda pointless to me. I like to go GE-happy when I have stone available. I'll build GW, Pyramids, Hanging Gardens, and Hagia Sophia--all of which are supported by stone iirc. Then I'll rush the marble wonders, such as parthenon early (in a city never destined to produce a great person), GL of course, etc.

5) Obviously, industrious is handy for this if you are not going to go philosophical. Going philosophical and wonder happy you really need stone. With industrious you don't need stone (although it is nice). You just need decent production.

6) Pyramids really do rule. I can't overstate how much they rule. I just started a game today with Rameses. He really does rock. Basically, industrious pretty much ensures pyramids given sufficient production (a couple hills in capital) and a few chops. Once pyramids are in, representation alleviates early happiness problems and also incredibly boosts your research potential. Just prioritize CoL and lightbulbing philosophy and the GL. Run 4-6 scientists in addition to the 2 from the GL. With representation, that's a lotta beakers. And the nice thing is that these scientists are supported by farms, so once you have a sufficient tech lead, you can fire the scientists and whip/draft an army. Then hire them back once you have your army out. Rinse, repeat.