Get all of AI's techs and money for free, and get away with it

[sixpackAb]

plus, break a deal and suffer no visible rep hit. Yes, I do it all the time and that's how I usually manage to matain a big lead during industrial age even at emperor level.

The trick is to get into a trade deal with the targeting AI for all his techs and money using your luxuries and per turn payment, and somehow provoke the AI to declear war on you the same turn, hence the deal is off instantly. This way, you get to keep all his techs and money, yet you don't have to pay a cent. Because the AI declared war on you, so technically the AI broke the deal, not you. and you can try the same trick again and again. But if you ever broke a deal, the AI will not trade with you on a pay-per-turn base, it will only take lump sum or techs.

There are 3 ways to do it. The 1st one I would call it "MP rape" after the "ROP rape". Suppose A is the leading AI with the all the techs and money u coveted, and A has a mutual protection with B, you can trade with A to get all his techs and money, and on the same turn, declear war and attack B. A will declear war on u because of their MP agreement. After a couple of turns later, you can sue for peace with A, and play the same trick on A again if A still got anything worth taking left.

The 2nd one is more of an opportunistic play, it works well for the acient and the middle ages, before AIs have Nationalism. we all know AI seems to have no respect for borders, you have a good chance to see AI's settlers, spearmen or horsemen either on its way to settle some remote place or to fight some enemy. When you bring up the dipomacy menu, you see the option "rmove your troops or declear war" for AI, then it's ready to strike. You can trade with AI to get all his stuff, then demand his city to make him from "polite" to "furious", then if you ask him to leave or declear war, he will declear war. Voila.

The 3rd one is just to deprive AI of his financial resources before he's bound to declear war on you. when you are doing fairly good in the histograph standing, the leading AI will attack you, most times you can see it coming. when you see the AI landing a couple of horsemen around your least defended coast city, or amassing at your bourder, you know he's going to strike. u can trade with him to get all his money and techs, so when he declears war, he can't buy allies to attack you.

If you just mantain a defensive war, u suffer little or no war weariness even in a democracy. And as long as you don't go out and attack AI within his border, the AI can even be polite toward you again after the war.

[Edited to change "u" --> "you", "i" --> "I" and some other sloppy spells. btw, do some people have a pet peeve for "u"s?]

 

[Angmar]

the word is "you"

 

[barron of ideas]

This is a lot more sophisticated analysis of what I do when I think the AI is planning to attack, I try to get into trades for future delivery, not just gold per turn but luxuries or resources, on the theory that it might pursuade him to look elsewhere for a target. If it doesn't deter the war, my primary objective, at least I got some benefits I don't have to make full payment on. This is when you suspect the AI is about to make an unprovoked attack on you, and I don't feel that is an exploit, it is an attempt to manage a bad situation to make it better, or less bad.

 

[Speaker]

This seems like an exploit to me. Although, with that said, I do like to play honorably, especially on Emperor and Deity where if your reputation gets stained at all, you find it impossible to trade and thus to keep up in tech.

 

[Aggie]

This is a well known tactic, which can be called dishonorable. FYI this here is a link to a honorable rules game at CFC.

And you are clearly not always in the position to make these kind of deals. Futhermore, I think that the AI will consider you a deal-breaker. Yesterday, during a monarch game, I had a trade deal with Egypt. When America took their last city, I got annoyed and furious co-leaders.

 

[barron of ideas]

I would like to reiterate, in my opiinion, if you feel an AI opponent is about to attack you, it is neither dishonorable nor an exploit to make a trade agreement with them in the hope that that will make them change their mind, and if it doesn't, you keep what ever benefit they gave you in trade but do not finish delivering what ever you had agreed to give them because they, of their own voilition, declared war on you. You don't tell them to get out of your courntry or rely on any sort of MPP declaration of war, they just come after you. I don't think you take a reputation hit, under these circumstances, from a exploit standpoint it isn't much different than agreeing to the AI extorting something from you on the trade screen. Give him stuff, and he doesn't attack you for a while. If that is an exploit, then no-one can play an honorable game except ever war.

 

[Aggie]

@barron of ideas: your intentions are different fom those of sixpackab. I was only stating that his idea is not new.

Your way of dealing (trying to convince the AI to call off an attack by trading) is something I do as well, and it works, most of the time...

 

[PersianImmortal]

It really surprises me when some people talk about an "honorable" game with the AI ...... HELLO!!!!! are you guys playing the same cheatin'-lyin'- ROP rapin'- MPP dishonoring- tribute demanding - deal breaking - back stabbing AI that I have to face??

 

[Aggie]

Originally posted by PersianImmortal
It really surprises me when some people talk about an "honorable" game with the AI ...... HELLO!!!!! are you guys playing the same cheatin'-lyin'- ROP rapin'- MPP dishonoring- tribute demanding - deal breaking - back stabbing AI that I have to face??

Yes, I do! I like them cheating and lying to each other. All it does is making it difficult for them to trade with each other. I'm really not playing honorable all the time. But if I do, I get better trade deals and I'm certain to win by UN.

You can play CIV in all kinds of ways. 'Honorable' is one way you can choose for. Some Succession Games have a rule to play honorable, other have a rule to always be at war with all civs.

 

[Speaker]

It really depends what level you are playing on. Chiefton through Monarch, your reputation isn't that important as you do most of your own research. But on Emperor and especially Deity, good luck keeping caught up in technology if you break one single deal. Soon you find yourself unable to trade GPT deals for tech and all of a sudden they are attacking your Pikemen with Cavalry. Good luck winning like that.

 

[sixpackAb]

None of the 3 methods I mentioned constitutes a breaking of deals on your part, at least that's my understanding, because the AI decleared war on you, not the other way around. And from my experience, you can still trade GPT with AI afterwards.

And in most cases you only need to use the trick 2 or 3 times top, because each time you can get mutliple techs. For example, during middle ages, I usually beeline for the metallurgy, and by the time i was about to finish my research, i would use the trick to get from "Astronemy" to "banking", "navigation" and "economics" etc in one go. In indurstrial ages, i would let AI reseach those dead-end techs like "nationalism", "communism" and "espionage" and get them later.

I don't think the "MPP rape" is a exploit, because even human play can not avoid the trap. but I do feel it's a bit exploitative for the latter two. since sometimes I was offering around 600 GPT plus luxuries to AI, yet AI still decleared war, NO exception.

During acient ages, it's possible to offer AI a deal and dissuade him from sneak attacking you. but from middle ages and on, when AI is about to attack, he will attack no matter what, which a human play would never do if he's got a lucrative deal going on. Clearly this is one more case of inadequate programming on the AI part.