Getting a city to flip

[1940LaSalle]

I now have one opposition city hemmed in completely on three sides, which the fourth side is open water. Moreover, in the surrounding cities, I'm working on building the fundamentals of culture (e.g., libraries, universities)--and I should note the opposition is behind me in terms of technology. So what can I do to encourage this city to throw out the incumbent governor and come to my side? The one thing the opposition has that I don't is mutual defense agreements with other civs, so I don't feel like getting into a multiple front shooting war--hence the question.

 

[vmxa]

Not much, you could spend money on propaganda, but that is expensive and not sure to work. Flipping is never guaranteed to work and could take forever.

 

[Spoonwood]

Why does that city matter? Could you post a save?

 

[vmxa]

I think the city itself is not important per se. He just wants to get it, without a war.

 

[darski]

I have surrounded cities with culture so that they only have 2 tiles and they still did not flip. (even at the low level I play)

 

[ThinkTank]

This thread discusses the formula for flip probability. From this, it follows that what you can do (peacefully ) is:
- maximize number of tiles worked by foreign city under your control
- prevent WLTKD in foreign city
- increase total culture of your civ

 

[1940LaSalle]

Turns out I could use the city since it's the closest source of coal (I have none in my own borders, and other sources would be a real pain to go after--much farther away, would require sea routes, etc.) This is also handy knowledge in general.

By the way, what's "WLTKD", please?

 

[Aabraxan]

WLTKD = We Love the King Day.

 

[Mursi lives]

WLTKD for "We Love The King Day".
A city is in this state when it has no angry and at least 50% happy citizens. That reduces corruption, increases resistance to flip, and launches nice fireworks above the city.

At for the coal, don't wait for an hypothetical flip. Either capture it, trade for it, or find a source on a desert island.

 

[1940LaSalle]

WLTKD for "We Love The King Day".
A city is in this state when it has no angry and at least 50% happy citizens. That reduces corruption, increases resistance to flip, and launches nice fireworks above the city.

At for the coal, don't wait for an hypothetical flip. Either capture it, trade for it, or find a source on a desert island.

I should have kept a saved game but I've deleted them in the interim. Anyhow, the driving force behind trying to induce a flip was the existence of several mutual defense pacts between the target civ (the one whose city I was trying to flip) and a lot of my neighbors. Since fighting a multiple-front war is a PITA (not to mention a near sure-fire way to lose big time), I wanted to avoid going to war. As I (believe I) noted previously, the sources of coal (the key resource) were very few, far between, and at some remove from my territory--and all were held by other civs, none of which had any use for it since none had steam power.

I should also note that I've had not-so-good luck with warfare even with what might appear to be overwhelming odds in my favor (e.g., cavalry facing a Panzer--and cavalry winning!); therefore, I have something of an avoidance at going to war if I can get around it.

Then again, maybe I'm just too much of a nice guy and have to learn to be more of an SOB.

 

[Mursi lives]

I should have kept a saved game but I've deleted them in the interim. Anyhow, the driving force behind trying to induce a flip was the existence of several mutual defense pacts between the target civ (the one whose city I was trying to flip) and a lot of my neighbors. Since fighting a multiple-front war is a PITA (not to mention a near sure-fire way to lose big time), I wanted to avoid going to war. As I (believe I) noted previously, the sources of coal (the key resource) were very few, far between, and at some remove from my territory--and all were held by other civs, none of which had any use for it since none had steam power.

Looks like you were the tech leader. In that case the simplest way to go to was probably to capture the coal city, wait a few turns, then offer a tech for peace to your ennemy's allies (ideally the same tech for every tribe). AI civs break any deal for a free tech. Or if your tech advance is minimal, another way is to spot a civ with 2 coal sources, sell (gift if necessary) steam power, then trade. Anyway you are right about coal: it is the key resource.

 

[1940LaSalle]

Aha: so if I want to isolate the target civ, the idea is to simply offer (let's say) sanitation to all the other rival civs as a gift? Or is there something specific I need to request to get those other rivals to break the mutual protection treaties with the target civ? (Clearly I'm in uncharted waters for myself here.)

 

[Spoonwood]

Can you load the autosave, save it as a regular save, and then post it here? You might want to consider signing an MPP with all the tribes that currently have an MPP with tribe A that has the coal. Then declare war on tribe A. DO NOT ATTACK THEM OR HAVE ANY UNITS IN THEIR TERRITORY. WAIT UNTIL THEIR UNITS CROSS INTO YOUR BORDERS. Then the other civs who you now have an MPP with will declare on tribe A (if it's not waltzing into your borders, wait until they attack a unit of yours). Finally take the city of coal from tribe A.

The only thing with that plan comes as that you might end up in other unwanted wars before the MPPs expire. However, it would probably come as a game of "axis and allies" then instead of 5 on 1.

FYI you can always gift tribes Steam Power and possibly sign an RoP with a civ to road up their first and second coal source for them, though your map might not need it. You can also potentially win a space or diplomatic game without any coal whatsoever, as you can with a 20k game also.

 

[1940LaSalle]

@ Spoonwood: turns out that I discovered empirically that, as you pointed out, one can win without coal (I did so via the el cheapo victory points avenue, scoring the minimum requisite 50K victory points by about 1570 AD) and subsequently dumped the saves since the game was moot at that point. [I guess the sidebar lesson here is to make sure a save is available when posing a strategy question like this.] It just sort of offends my sensibilities to not have railroads when I have the ability to airlift troops, build battleships and so forth.

Your strategy about signing MPPs with the other parties sounds like a reasonable one for avoiding a multiple-front war. Duly noted for the next time something like this surfaces.

Afterthought: given that there are military vehicles driven by internal combustion available, it seems to me that there ought to be at least one analogous civilian vehicle (say, a truck) that could move settlers and workers as an alternative to railroads using an existing road network. Indeed, a truck need not be strictly civilian: it could move anything, with different units taking apportioned spaces (say, three workers = one infantry).