Getting the little things off one's chest Part 2

[Buttercup]

I noticed another pointless feature in my current game:

I was Bombing an enemy city with Bombers and Stealth Bombers and on every hit they were either:

Destroying buildings
Killing Citizens
or
Having failed bombing runs

Which was a shame because all I wanted was for them to reduce the HP of the defending Units.

(quite why the programmers thought destroying buildings was a good thing for an attacker is beyond me...)

So I tried out the Stealth Bomber's Precision Strike option...

... and it just destroyed a building.

Wouldn't the whole point of a Precision Strike infer that one is choosing what to attack?

 

[vmxa]

Pedia states Precision Strike hits buildings only, hence I never use it.

 

[Buttercup]

And even if for some really obscure reason one did want to hit buildings, one can't even choose which one!

Imagine the headlines if one sent out a bombing raid to destroy a munitions factory and the pilots came back saying they have successfully destroyed the 4000 year old Cathedral!

 

[vmxa]

That sort of thing did happen in WWII. No precision in those days. Anyway it would be too easy, if your bombs always hit troops. The fact that they tend to kill pop or structures, is what determines that I makes so few bombers.

There best use is to sink boats in port or bombers in that town for my money. Well their best use is to sink boats period.

 

[creamcheese]

Only use bombers to reduce city population and buildings, they are rather lousy at units in cities. I use them for bombing units outside of cities, and for finishing off units my artillery has already redlined.

 

[Buttercup]

I know vmxa, I was still referring to Precision Strikes

In terms of easiness, I think once one has Stealth Bombers one should be permitted a certain amount of easiness.

I love the way they reduce citizens, it makes pacifying the population so much easier.

They are indeed awesome at sinking boats *and* helping to wipe out those big front-line stacks, but once that front-line is gone I love using them to fully empty cities (Artillery can only red-line Units, they cannot remove them completely) and permit me the 'golden walk-in' which saves me both movement points and any loss of HP whatsoever

But yes, if you have Artillery in range and it stall has movement/attack points left, then it's always wise to use them first and do the finishing off with a Bombard Unit that has the Lethal function

& I agree, I shan't ever be using the Precision Strike again

 

[Spoonwood]

I don't use any bombers or fighters. Even in a space game, I generally do most of my warring before they come around... and except in the occasional 20k game, modern era wars just don't happen for me. I had a recent space game on Demi-God where I ended up warring with tanks, 4 calvary armies, and artillery proper in the early modern era. Thinking on this, bombers would have to had to re-base first and then bomb, which might have came as slower in terms of turn time than shelling out the enemy cities with artillery proper, and then attacking with a tank, calvary army, or tank army even.

 

[Smellincoffee]

And even if for some really obscure reason one did want to hit buildings, one can't even choose which one!

Imagine the headlines if one sent out a bombing raid to destroy a munitions factory and the pilots came back saying they have successfully destroyed the 4000 year old Cathedral!

That's pretty much the story of World War 2. The height, distance, and speed of the bombers was too great to go after particular buildings, so the Allies chose carpet-bombing...and cathedrals were lost in raids intended for factories.

 

[Buttercup]

That's pretty much the story of World War 2.

They had Stealth Bombers doing Precision Strikes in World War Two?

 

[web25]

planes are useless, i spend the shields on modern armor and howitzers.

i do have a couple stealth for spying on the map and to bomb resources like oil, aluminum and rubber tiles.

 

[HagiaSophia]

I love to use Stealth Bombers on an enemy civ while using my Army & Navy defensively (sorry, but I like Marshal Douhet). Cripple their economy, ruin their cities so they riot, blast their links to other civs so they can't trade, destroy resources- they're amazing!

 

[Buttercup]

howitzers

Omg, this brought back some memories! I used to get so excited when I could build Howitzers. Why haven't I been using them recently I suddenly thought to myself So I went to see if I was missing some resources, but they aren't on the civopedia list of available Units. Damn, more civ2 memories.

 

[vmxa]

You want howitzers, try the CCM mod. Never forget that kill the top unit, kill the stack in Civ2. Oh, they have SoD at my town, I will kill the top unit and poof, no problem. Loved Cov2, but do not miss it any longer.

 

[Cannon]

The "buildings" that Precision Strike will hit first are tactical military improvements.

ie) barracks, walls, civil defense, coastal fortress

Therefore it does have a use,especially when you knock out civil defense in a metropolis.

-Cannon

 

[vmxa]

Not being useless, is not the same as being useful.

 

[HagiaSophia]

Another thing:
Is it possible to raze a city with the UN in and still win a Diplo victory?

 

[vmxa]

No, you will not be able to hold a vote. Even, if you could get a vote the AI is not going to like you razing towns. Not to mention that, by the time you get to a city with the UN, you shold be close to at least domination. Actually, how did you let them build the UN? They rarely even manage that on Sid.

 

[Buttercup]

The "buildings" that Precision Strike will hit first are tactical military improvements.

ie) barracks, walls, civil defense, coastal fortress

Therefore it does have a use,especially when you knock out civil defense in a metropolis.

-Cannon

I can see where you're coming from cannon, in that you've explained the logic behind implementing the feature Precision Strike.

However...

This might have sounded cool and useful in the production stage but in the practical reality of the game there are certain factors which have already accumulated prior to the discovery of Stealth which render these 'benefits' little more than abstract tokens.

Firstly, it is unlikely that one's air-force will consist of just one Stealth Bomber. It's a possibility, but too highly remote to start creating specific buttons just for this scenario. It is more probable that one already has a horde of regular Bombers and at least a handful of Stealth Bombers. So, unless one is playing a kind of role-play where one is simply weakening the opposition without any intention of invasion, it is unlikely that any of these military installations will be of any great issue (not to mention already destroyed by regular mass-bombing).

Secondly, by the arrival of Stealth one will already have vast quantities of Modern Armour, naval bombard Units, Radar Artillery and Armies of at least Tanks, probably Modern Armour. These Units wont have a problem with anything the game has to offer, even Mechanised Infantry Fortified behind Civil Defence in a Metropolis.

To which, thirdly, comes the crunch. The primary target in any city one is invading is the military Units. If one is planning to keep the city rather than raze it then it's preferable that no buildings get destroyed. Second priority will be reducing the Citizen population prior to take-over in order to reduce the number of Resistors.

To which the conclusion must be that it seems a bit of a pointless let-down to get to Stealth and find that the 'special feature' of a Stealth over a regular Bomber is simply the ability to have a chance to remove Civil Defence when the whole point of a 'Precision Strike' would imply that one is able to choose a target (any target) and get either a direct hit on the selected target or a 'rare' Failed Bombing Run.

What I'd expect from this button would be a drop-down list of targets for the location chosen.

But yes, I do see that in it's current state of just bombing city improvements there might well be a rare instance where someone has managed to find a very specific and isolated instance where this feature might be considered 'worth opting for'.

 

[HagiaSophia]

And even if for some really obscure reason one did want to hit buildings, one can't even choose which one!

Imagine the headlines if one sent out a bombing raid to destroy a munitions factory and the pilots came back saying they have successfully destroyed the 4000 year old Cathedral!

Whoa, whoa!
I didn't think Christianity had been around for 4000 years!

 

[HagiaSophia]

No, you will not be able to hold a vote. Even, if you could get a vote the AI is not going to like you razing towns. Not to mention that, by the time you get to a city with the UN, you shold be close to at least domination. Actually, how did you let them build the UN? They rarely even manage that on Sid.

I didn't. It was just a hypothesis.