Gipped

[Venger]

I think this got changed in 1.29 and it SUCKS...

Had a nice patch of flood plain to start a city by, and I did all the math for the best spot.

Except that when I settle the city, the flood plain that WAS going to produce 4 food, now only produces 2. WHAT THE FLI$@!$%!?

I also think this screws up the AI, I've seen them start cities on resource tiles that get screwed up by the new center city tile rule...

Anyone confirm?

Venger

 

[Cunobelin Of Hippo]

Yeah, that's probably true. The number of food in a city centre tile is now hardcoded to match the number of food per turn each citizen consumes - which of course is 2 unmodded.

 

[smallstepforman]

This has existed from day one, as far as I recall. The only benefit you'd get is resources or gold, so I never build a city on cows/dears.

 

[Catt]

I can't swear on a stack of bibles, but I too believe that the city center has always produced two food, regardless of underlying terrain or bonus resources (technically, I think it now produces whatever the rules (modded or not) indicate is required to support one pop point).

I have at least always played as if this were true - somewhere I picked up the tidbit of information, and started placing my cities on the poorest tile available that still allowed city laborers to work the more productive tiles I was targeting -- even desert and tundra produced 2 food from the city center.

 

[Pillager]

Civ II wasn't like that, was it? IIRC, I used to build directly on wheat etc, to ensure a good start to the city.

 

[Kilroy]

You don't even the get the bonuses from resources anymore...

That is really bad design, IMO.

 

[Daaraa]

I don't think it is all that bad of an idea. Just adjust your gameplay and adapt.
If you think about it, if you were to build a city on an Ivory resource, the Elephants you are getting the resources from will not continue to live in a large city. Likewise with many other resources. Would everyone like to have an open pit coal mine as part of the town square?
Anyways....Just keep it in mind next time and adapt.

 

[Bill_in_PDX]

Further, you can use this to your advantage. I just built a city last night on a patch of desert adjecent to three grasslands, so I ended up with a potential oil city that still has growth potential.

 

[poprawkz]

Bill_in_PDX has a great idea I think I will keep my eyes open for that circumstance in future games. This is a great way to get extra production out of bad squares like tundra or desert!

 

[Venger]

The best result is to make the center tile hardcoded to a MINIMUM of 2 food and 1 shield. This allows cities in varied landscapes, but allows cities to take advantage of good terrain or resources...

I also think the AI doesn't understand how this works, and as a result screws up city placement...

PLEASE, if there is a new patch, change this to allow better city placement...

Venger

 

[Cartouche Bee]

This was changed to 2 food; 3 or 4 patches ago! I doubt they would change it back now. Thats' why you see so many AI cities on hills now, works for them.

 

[smallstepforman]

Speaking of terrain, in the Civ3 world, Jungle tiles can be adjacent to desert tiles. He he, in my current game, a desert the size of sahara is adjacent to a jungle the size of the amazon. I also find it ironic that mountain squares are along the coast. Right....

 

[MSGT John Drew]

They did not change it to 2 food - at least not actually. As they said they changed it to "the amount of food needed to support 1 pop point." - just in case it was possible to change the cost of a pop-point in present/future game editors.

 

[TheNiceOne]

Venger, it's possible you have a point about the AI don't understand it, but otherwise I disagree with you. In real life, you can't have a large city and have farmlands in the same spot. I find it logical that the optimal city placement is close to good food/resource cites, not on them.

smallstepforman, if you find it ironic that mountains can be along the coast, feel free to visit Norway and have a look.

MSGT John Drew, it is possible already to change the cost of a pop-point. Check the "double your pleasure" mod which uses 3 food.

 

[rangers85]

Originally posted by smallstepforman
Speaking of terrain, in the Civ3 world, Jungle tiles can be adjacent to desert tiles. He he, in my current game, a desert the size of sahara is adjacent to a jungle the size of the amazon. I also find it ironic that mountain squares are along the coast. Right....

Like said by TheNiceOne, it's possible. This would be caused by a fault line right on the ocean causing the coast terrain to rise over many hundreds of thousand of years.

Originally posted by Bill_in_PDX
Further, you can use this to your advantage. I just built a city last night on a patch of desert adjecent to three grasslands, so I ended up with a potential oil city that still has growth potential.

This is exactly what I already do. I'll try to place my city on the worst terrain in the area I want to found it on. Meaning, if I have the choice of a grassland or bonus grassland, I'll take the grassland. Or a desert or plain, I'll found on the plain. Basically, founding on the worst terrain will provide the best results in the long run.