GL in NE or commerce city?

[NoMan]

In my current game my capital is a food rich coastal city but no nearby rivers. I plan to build NE here. My second city is near a river (no flood plains but irrigated corn and bananas), has a gold mine, and is the Confucian holy city. This seems like the place to build Oxford and science and commerce buildings. Should I build the GL here to boost science or in the capital to boost GP?

Other factors that might be important. I'm playing vanilla at Emperor level as Mao, who is philosophical. I already built the Oracle in the capital (I took COL) and won't run scientists there until I get a Prophet to build the shrine.

 

[madscientist]

GL (great Library I assume) usually is best in the NE city to max out those GS's which will help the science city with an academy and either bulbing or settling the GS there. GL, NE and Phil sounds like a great GP farm already especially if you can run a pair of scientist specialist.

 

[Polobo]

There are no "commerce buildings", there are gold buildings and there are science buildings. Keep in mind that shrine income is GOLD and not commerce and does not go through library/university/lab/Oxford. In your case I would focus on gold multipliers and farms early game, running merchant specialists to further increase gold income. Consider adding a corporation late game here as well. You should be able to run slider @ 0% gold and still generally make money if you spread Confucinism. If you do go for the GL placing it in your capital would make for an excellent science city (again, run specialists there too) and you'd end up with 2 GP farms. I would maybe even consider NOT building the NE or building it late game in a Engineer GP farm setup especially for a one-time shot at a Great Engineer for founding a corporation (with the slight risk of getting an artist instead). Early/Mid game you would get a merchant every other GP and only have an (increasingly) small chance at the prophet (instead of a scientist) due to the Oracle in the capital.

 

[madscientist]

Harbors are commerce buildings.

 

[DaveMcW]

GL is usually obsolete by the time you build Oxford.

 

[BARBEERIAN]

If you plan on running piles of scientist specialists in your Capital with the NE (which you most definitely should since you're playing a Philosophical leader), building the GL there to add to that bonus and throwing in Oxford will pay off in more raw beakers and Great Scientists. As for these Great Scientists, aside from an building an academy or two, I highly recommend you settle them in your Capital. The settled GS's produce massive amounts of science over the long term and are much better than bulbing. Bulbing the odd tech if you need to catch up in the Liberalism race is ok though.

As for your main shrine city, it's always the best bet for Wall Street not necessarily Oxford. Since Shrines give raw gold not commerce thus no science it won't necessarily make enough beakers to be worth it. Also as others mentioned, you might consider farming it up and running merchants to better gear it towards raw gold.

 

[Polobo]

"Harbors are commerce buildings."

True, although they are limited strictly to commerce generated by trade routes and not commerce generated by land or improvements.

Bureaucracy also enhances commerce and depending on the other tiles and cities the OP may want to consider moving the capital to leverage the gold mine as well as generate the additional hammers needed to build the market/grocer/bank in a food-heavy city.

 

[NoMan]

Well thanks everyone. It seems unanimous. GL (yes Great Library) in the capital followed by NE (produces artists in vanilla).

Someone want to loan me some marble?

 

[cheffster]

GL is usually obsolete by the time you build Oxford.

This totally depends.

I often build GL, ToA, UofS, Spir. Min, and lots of monastaries, etc.
Therefore I tend to postpone researching scientific method untill its the last availible tech in order to squeeze as much juice out of my wonders as possible.

Obviously on the other hand if you only build GL but not the other wonders, given that SM does unlock some crucial techs this could vary.

I however build Oxford LONG BEFORE discovering SM in most of my games, and usually in my capital that has NE/Oxford as it's national wonders.

And in response the OP's question: I would build GL in your capital and possibly Oxford there as well.

Oxford might be better in your capital for many reasons:

- With representation you could generate lots of from running lots of specialists - this has excellent synergy with building NE there as well, you may also consider settling some specialists in your capital to further enchance this.
- Your capital is costal, and hence can build harbors, and later custom houses, it will also generate a higher base trade income from being costal. Do not underestimate the value of trade-routes in BTS, they are huge sources of commerce.
- While running beaucracy you get +50% in your capital, coupled with large trade income can mean serious

- In your second city, it might be worth considering building Ironworks, and Wallstreet there instead of Oxford since that once you have steam power all those river tiles give +1 , and since you have a shrine that generates , not Wallstreet would be a good national wonder for this city.

 

[cheffster]

"Harbors are commerce buildings."

True, although they are limited strictly to commerce generated by trade routes and not commerce generated by land or improvements.

Bureaucracy also enhances commerce and depending on the other tiles and cities the OP may want to consider moving the capital to leverage the gold mine as well as generate the additional hammers needed to build the market/grocer/bank in a food-heavy city.

If you complete the harbourmaster quest, then harbours also give +2 each ontop of the % bonus, although no building gives a pure multiplier from worked tiles, the effects of trade routes I think effectively qualifies Temple of Artemis/Airports/Harbors/Customs houses as commerce buildings since sometimes commerce from trade is often competitive with the commerce generated by working resource tiles.

 

[TheMeInTeam]

"Harbors are commerce buildings."

True, although they are limited strictly to commerce generated by trade routes and not commerce generated by land or improvements.

Bureaucracy also enhances commerce and depending on the other tiles and cities the OP may want to consider moving the capital to leverage the gold mine as well as generate the additional hammers needed to build the market/grocer/bank in a food-heavy city.

That commerce can be huge. I've yet to leverage it myself, but I saw a post on here where a guy playing at deity was researching assembly line in the 1100's while basically running his economy off of trade...!

Markets and such don't add to commerce, but the amount of gold generated from the slider can be such that you can increase the % of your current commerce going into research (aka 80% instead of 70% say). Their impact is very real unless you can run 100% science (I rarely can), although placing them in a particular city is not necessary...they go in whatever cities they're cost effective in. I haven't checked the math on it but that could be quite a few. Also the trade route guy indicated these buildings might raise the likelihood of good foreign trade routes through the city. I'm not sure if this is the case...I wonder if there's a way to verify.

 

[madscientist]

Trade Route or a worked tile, what difference does it make. Commerce is commerce and goes in to the commerce pool prior to adjusting the slider

Other commerce buildings are

Customes House
Airport