goody hut probabilities

In your 'scenarios' where you set up all these goody huts to grab, do you have any opponents? If you have no opponents, maybe you can't get any barbarians?

Another thing I have noticed: Every single game I have played with v1.21, I never get more than 1 settler. Except for 1 game. In that game I never had my capital build another settler. It just kept producing scouts, with an occasional warrior for military police. I ended up getting THREE settlers! This was on Regent level.

And from what I have noticed also (like Grey Fox mentioned), you never get a settler at 4000 B.C. Best to move your settler over (if the terrain makes this feasible), build your city at 3950 B.C. , then have your scout grab the goody hut. This at least increases the chances of getting a settler.
 
Bamspeedy,

I think your post about never getting a Settler from a hut on the first turn is true. I have tried it about 40 different ways and never have gotten a settler. If I stumble around and take the long way to the hut, then I get Settlers from the huts in turn two at a normal rate.

I cannot say that I never get more than 1 settler because I have two recent games in V1.21 with two settlers.

I also think things avergae out in the long run over many games and even quicker if we could consider teh results of what the AI players are getting.

Perhaps that's a suggesting for a game ending logfile that gets spit out by the game. Just a listing of years, coordinates, and the civ that found a goody hut and what they got. I'd trade my warrior gong slide for that in a heartbeat.

I still think there should be a flag to allow the goody hut contents to be fixed at the beginning of a game. This would be a simple array with coordinates and outcomes that would be used as the first choice outcomes from the specific hut locations.
 
Originally posted by etj4Eagle

Again I used Japan with raging barbariens, however this time I used diety skill level.

From this I have derived the following conclusions:

Gold has a 15% chance at every skill level
A deserted encampanent increases from 5%->55%

At diety this accounts for 70% of the goody huts.
of the remaining 30%:
33% are Techs
33% are Units (including settlers)
33% are Maps

One conclusion from the above is that diety really crimps the ability to get techs from the goody huts.
Click to expand...

Eagle, I was hoping you would show up and educate us yet again. Thanks. :)

I stopped observing the scenario goody huts after I noticed that barbs never appeared because I didn't trust the results, and I still don't. (I even waited 10 turns to see if the huts would "mature." Nope. Waited 20 turns. Never ever got any barbs.) I wonder if the 70% deserted would be abut 35% for barbs and 35% for deserted in a real deity game. Judging by casual observation in a real deity game, the tech percent is lower than at other levels, which agrees with your results. I think I am going to have to observe real games to see if the deserted% + barb% is about 70%. If it is, then we can probably trust the scenario results for everything except barbs.

I am playing a real deity game where I get lots of barbs, and in fact that is what made me curious. Maybe you have to play on a huge world in deity to get much of a benefit from goody huts.

Also on deity, the barbs are stronger, so if you are Aztec and use jaguar warriors to open huts you will have a higher casualty rate but they can retreat some of the time (and if they win they can get promoted). Having barbs appear is not necessarily a bad thing if you want elite units and leaders eventually. Zulu Impi have the defensive strength to survive but they are not supposed to get barbs since they are expansionist....

Thanks again. I will look a a real game for a while....
 
Originally posted by sumthinelse
* deserted

I wonder why I can't get barbs from goody huts in the scenario
Click to expand...
I got barbs most the time. At least 90% of the time, I get barbs.:( So, I try out the expansion civ, guess what I got - deserted. It's always deserted if I play the expansion civ and barbs if I play some other civs.:( The goody hut curse is on me.:( Nowadays, if I encounter those goody huts, I just ignore them.
 
Originally posted by Grey Fox
Moonsinger: Barbarians can be good at times, if you get an elite unit out of it.
Click to expand...
That's true, but sadly, my lonely scouting warrior doesn't stand a chance against 3 or 6 barbarians .:(
 
I figured out how to put extra goody huts in a real game, so of course I do get barbs in my testing.

I started to say that the probabilities are affected by how many techs you have, but testing seems to disprove that. In my testing in a "real" diety game, hacked to put in extra goody huts to make the testing faster:


(update with 600+ trials)



  • * Barbs 325 times, 53%

    * deserted 157 times, 26%

    * tech 36 times, 6%

    * map 36 times, 6%

    * gold 31 times, 5%

    * unit (settler in this case) 26 times, 4%

Total 613 tries.

Eagle, I think my results do not agree with yours because you are in a scenario while I am testing in a "real" game.

Of course you know how to add huts to a scenario, but I can hack your "real" saved game if you want me to put goody huts on the map. Post a saved game if you are interested. You would have to use a different file name if you cared about the original game of course. Or I will post my test game if anybody wants to use it.

Shevek, the AI may be beating you to the goody huts. Of course you can't see the whole map at the start of a game.
 
Originally posted by Aeson
I remember someone posting that if you gave a civ the ability to build scouts that there wouldn't be any barbs from huts. Even if the Expansionist trait wasn't checked. Were you using Scouts through a mod?
Click to expand...

No scouts, no expansionist civ attribute. It's just that scenarios are different from real games in certain ways....
 
It seems to me that not being able to get barbarians in goody huts if you are making a scenario is a bug.

Someone should have mentioned this bug to the Firaxians in the chat last Friday. Oh well, let's hope they find out about it themselves, and fix it.
 
Originally posted by sumthinelse
I figured out how to put extra goody huts in a real game, so of course I do get barbs in my testing.

Eagle, I think my results do not agree with yours because you are in a scenario while I am testing in a "real" game.
Click to expand...

After looking at your results, some of the data still holds. The ratio of Tech-Unit-Map remains the same at 1:1:1. One differance is that in a real game gold is dropped to 5% and the sum of Tech-Unit-Map is halved to 15%. Where I always got nothing before you are now getting Barbarians and that freed up precentage from above (25% goes to deserted huts).

As the deserted from my scenario tests is the same percentage as the Barbarians in your "real" game test, I am thinking the bug that we have discovered lies somewhere around here. It would seem that the percentages are not individually set, but the game uses some kind of formula to generate them (as I have come up with a rule that gives the results that you are seeing and then when the results I am seeing when the deserted and barbarian steps are accidently combined).

For those interested the rule would be:
Set Barbarian % to 55%
Set Desterted % to 25%
Divide remaining % by four and round down to the nearest 5%, set X as this value and Y as the remainder
Set Tech, Unit, and Map to X
Set Gold to X+Y

Now for scenarios step 1 and 2 of the rule appear to have been combined to read: Set Deserted % to 55%. The reason for the rule is that we know that the editor reads in the correct version of the rules from civ3mod.bic. So the error has to be a read error, and this type of rule only requires one error. (The percentages are variables that are set in reading the file. So in this case the value for barbarians would remain at its initialized value of zero).

I am geussing that the rules for generating the goody huts much be included in the bic file. Hence there must be a bug with the editor for generating these rules. This leads me to wonder if you use a game generated map but edit civ3mod will you see the scenario goody hut behavoir. My guess would be yes, as long as the bic file rules have been modified by the game you should see these results.
 
Originally posted by Homie


No he didn't, he had them set to Roaming:cool:
Click to expand...

And mine was set to raging. And it was quite fun trying to watch my unit try to path find its way around those barbarians.
 
I am using a tiny map with two continents and two civs to test this same area of thought process.

I have two start locations that have a solid mass of goody huts thrown out around them in all locations outside the initial 9 squares.

My explorer unit is the initial worker with 100 movement points and this is a V1.21 scenarios with lots of testing modifications. It plays just great without hangs, crashes, or otehr discernable bugs.

I have been testing start positions with the Random Seed Preserved to see if I can identify that the games is using a single RNG sequence that is essentially preset at the start of the turn. I have also been testing with the Random Seed Preservation turned off just to try and see what the base probabilities look like.

I haven't had any problem generating barbs on Regent with the Restless or Raging settings on. In fact, the barbs get in the way of producing a statistically valid test sample in my first set of test approaches becasue when you pop three of them out of a hut, they block three squares from the exploration worker and this takes an ever increasing number of huts out of the test pool.

I am initially getting about 40% barbs out of the huts but still working to get statically valid results.
 
Originally posted byetj4Eagle
Again I did not produce any barbarians while visiting any of the goody huts.
Click to expand...
What patch are you on? I distinctly remember a Scn. I made, A "duel to the death" one. Where me and another civ started srounded by goody-huts(there was a small path seperating us FILLED WITH BARBARIANS). It seemed all I got out of them where barbarians. I think this was the 1.17 patch though.
 
Originally posted by PCHighway

What patch are you on?
Click to expand...

1.21f and the scenario goody huts behave differently from the "normal" game goody huts.
 
Hmmmmm, i'll check the list of changes in the recent patch again but... I'm sure that game (a scn.) I played was normal, as far as barbs go.
 
Okay I gotten some more results. This time I tried two different ways of doing the scenario if I could figure out this bug a bit more. For the first case I first modded civ3mod and then created a scenario with a modified rule set. The idea here was to look for a change in precentages with an error being doubled (hypothesis was both barbarians and nothing would be at 0%, proved false as I got the same percentages as before.)

The second case was to create a custom map, but not edit the rules. In this case I have gotten barbarians. (my fledgling city is getting utterly bashed by the barbarians.

Next up on the test bed will be to try a map with custom player data and then one using a modified civ3mod file.

(and yes I am using the latest patch, and this is the US, PC version)

PC-Highway, my second case above is the same type of scenario as your "Duel to the Death" one (I am assuming that you did not use custom rules).
 
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