GOTM #13 *Spoiler* Talks

[Leowind]

I'm not even out of the BCs yet, but if you haven't started, there may possibly be spoilers for you in the following.













I've had a lousy start to this game Just a few turns in Barbarian CHARIOTS appeared! My overmatched warriors have been fighting Chariots and Archers ever since. I've seen one barb horse other than a bunch I popped from a hut. I've lost several cities and settlers (not to mention warriors) and had to pay off the barbs to avoid having my capital sacked. I've managed to explore most (I think) of the island and currently have about 6 cities, but none over size 2 Now that I have Phalanx and Archers myself I think the situation will stabilize, but it has really put me behind. 5th in population! I"ve got my work cut out for me to get back on top in this game.

 

[frunobulax]

[Might be some slight spoils here...]

Well, I played for about 6 hours last night and am up to the early 1500s (AD) and just got gunpowder and ironclads. It's actually the first time I've ever played at Deity level. It ain't quite so scary as i thought, but was alarmed how Civil Disorder in cities kicks in so much earlier and cities are much more volatile when it comes to troops moving out etc...

Still, have 9 decent cities on the go - managed to beat the Americans & Vikings to building the Great Library, Leonardo's W/shop (hate the music for that one!), Michaelangelo's thingymajig and (my fave) Adam Smith Trade Wotsit.... not managed to kill anyone off yet, but there are plenty of goody huts all over the place. Am low on gold (200) after rush-building one wonder, but am now concentrating on trade to kick-up the science/gold side of things... getting a discovery every 8 turns....

Zimbabwe has 3 resources - 2 silk and 1 pheasant (I think) - built it 2 squares south and one west of original start position (I think... am at work at the monmet and trying to recall this from memory...)

 

[frunobulax]

Extra things:

I also built GREAT WALL at start (as soon as I could) and it paid off big time with barbarians - lost no cities to them (or units), whilst Vikings too a hammering and lost 3 cities in 2 turns to them .... definitely build this wonder !

Also managed to build Isaac Newton (but not Copernicus) - Vikings built that.... so have a decent science level, but no hoipe of a monster science city this time around...

Considering restarting at some point to get this....

 

[Leowind]

Haven't read fruno's posts 'cause I'm not that far yet (around 500AD), but things are looking better for me. The barbs have gone away for the time being and I've been able to get about a dozen cities founded. Just discovered the Viks and they've left some land on their island close to mine that I can settle. How nice of them. Everyone has built a wonder but me , but I am in the process and will have researched Monotheism before it's finished, so I can about guarantee I'll get MIkes I've managed to climb up to third in population. It won't be a quick victory, but victory is looking more hopeful now.

 

[Duke of Marlbrough]

I usually use my barbarian supression techniques to try and avoid getting hit hard by Barbs. In the very early turns in the game you will not get Barbs from huts. If you don't have a city built yet, you won't get Barbs from huts early on either (You also won't get advanced tribes or nomads either, but oh well). I also wait on grabbing some huts until I have two or more units to take the huts or have built a city near it to avoid barbs.

Be sure to learn the hut pattern and go for them like crazy in the first 10-15 turns. Then after that use some supression techniques.

In this GOTM I have one hut that I just had to bypass because I only had a chariot to go after it and the hut is on 2 movement terrain, which means that if barbs popped up I wouldn't get first strike and would most likely lose the chariot. Since the chariot is the only unit I have in that area to protect two cities, I couldn't afford to risk it.

I'm at ~1600BC and have 11 small cities. I had real scary moment when some sea Barbs landed on an unprotected front. I was able to rush buy a warrior and fortify him on a hill to hold out. Then by the time the fighting was over I finally got a chariot there and captured the leader. I'm already at Monarchy and have yet to see anything of any other civ. I have two decent sized islands pretty well explored, so I think it's time to get some boats out and roaming around.

I normally play on Deity, but since I have only been playing GOTM's anytime I play it's hard to switch gears back to deity playing. I'm having to build lots of units just to keep unhapiness down, so expansion is really slow now.

 

[frunobulax]

I'm now up to the early 1800s, and things are going real slow... am in 3rd place behind the pesky Americans and Vikings. The Mongols and English are perpetualy at war, which has eased the pressure after a brief English invasion near my northernmost city. Have just started building Hoover Dam , after getting Darwin's Voyage. Americans are gathering by my eastern flank, but have a strong fortress on a mountain with 2 alpine units to repel their dragoons if they decide to attack. Just got Marines too, so am looking to attack someone soon :rocket: - probably the English or Mongols, who are the two weakest Civs. Unhappiness is a real problem (I'm currently a democracy), as the Vikings got to build Women's Suffrage and I know several cities will be on the brink of disorder if I move too many troops out by ship to invade England. My largest city is at 12, and growth is soooo slow at Deity level ... have a feeling I ain't gonna win this, so might have to start over - but it's a good challenge to try this Deity thing anyway.

 

[jomey]

Deity hhhmmm.

Start off looking for a decent capital position and there were some fine pheasants to the North. popped a few huts before I laid my roots and was lucky enough to get a few NON units. I have been building settlers like mad and exploring with my units but civil disorder is starting to set in. Have explored the whole continent now and have 10 decent cities .. All in all a good start but am now getting hassled by barbs

Not a civ in sight and will start on a few basic wonders

 

[frunobulax]

Not a civ in sight and will start on a few basic wonders

:enlighten POSSIBLE CLUE:

Go NW across the sea from the start island to find the English, and east of the start island there
*should* be Americans...

Get building a trireme and send a diplomat and/or some NON units if you have any... :rocket:

 

[Duke of Marlbrough]

Originally posted by frunobulax
have a feeling I ain't gonna win this, so might have to start over - but it's a good challenge to try this Deity thing anyway.

Just a reminder that you are not allowed the replay the game. The second time through you would already know the 'lay of the land' and know where the AI is. Play your best in this game and submit that score. Believe me at Deity the scores will be widespread anyways.

 

[Leowind]

Duke, thanks for the tips, but these were ALL barbarians that just showed up. They were not from huts!! I had no chance to have units ready to deal with them, not that my warriors stood much chance against chariots and archers anyway.

 

[Lucky]

And on to the next GOTM!
After playing the Civ1 GOTM1 in the last couple of days and reaching a reasonable score for not having played Civ1 in over 5 years, I decided to start the Civ2 GOTM today.

Archipelago map on Deity could be a real challenge if you don´t find the AI civs soon.
So I started the game, founded my capitol immediately, used the other settler for exploring to the SW, where the Silk was and discovered a decent SSC site there, very close to the capitol. Two silk and a whale and maybe another special (still in the dark, but should be another whale ) isn´t too bad, just a little low on production (no hills). I immediately researched Horseriding and scouted my continent. I popped the huts as quickly as I could (only 2 barbs ), got 2 or 3 cities and 1 NONE settler in the process, some techs and a little gold.
After having built my own cities the unhappiness was about to get out of control , so I switched from Colossus to Hanging Gardens and went for Monarchy ASAP.
My scouts used the polar access to explore these regions and discovered this island to the west with some more huts.

The BC years are almost over, I have constructed the HG, currently building the Colossus for my SSC and the Pyramids in my Isthmus city near the Iron.

I have not yet seen another AI nor any seaborne barbs. I will construct my first triremes as soon as I finish Philosophy, which I´m currently researching and then taking MapMaking of course.
The only hint of the AI is that the Americans are constructing the Pyramids, too, but I´ll probably finish before them or I´ll switch to the Great Wall or Oracle.

 

[Duke of Marlbrough]

Originally posted by Leowind
Duke, thanks for the tips, but these were ALL barbarians that just showed up. They were not from huts!! I had no chance to have units ready to deal with them, not that my warriors stood much chance against chariots and archers anyway.

I kinda figured that, but wanted to offer the ideas because Barbs seemed to be an issue last GOTM for many people also.

BTW, unless your warriors were on good defensive terrain and fortified, you were attacking with you warriors sometimes, right? Chariots, horsemen and archers are stronger on the attack than on defense, so hit them (especially chariots and horsemen) anytime you can.

Sounds like a lucky game for Lucky again. Only getting two things of Barbs from huts and getting no roaming barbs is better than I could even have hoped for.

I know the hut pattern, and also think there could be another special in that city location, but why would it be a whale? It would be a water one, so it could be a fish or whale. Just curious if I'm not fully schooled in specials to the point that I should know what specials they would actually be as well as where they might be.

 

[Lucky]

Originally posted by Duke of Marlbrough
Sounds like a lucky game for Lucky again. Only getting two things of Barbs from huts and getting no roaming barbs is better than I could even have hoped for.

I´m still pretty early in the game, still in the BC´s, so the rush of seaborne barbs can easily come later.
My strategy against roaming barbs popping up near the darkness is to explore as much and as early as possible. I think that by 2000BC I knew most of my continent (maybe a bit later ). Also the 2 settlements I got were in the far eastern and northeastern part of the continent so no possible barbs from there. I´m not quite sure but there is something like a minimum distance a barb uprising has to have to the next town, maybe even to the next unit. So that leaves only the northern part and this other western island.
And maybe seaborne barbs don´t come until you have mapmaking?!
AND I forgot to mention that I had barbs in 2 huts on the western island, I only mentioned what I got on the main continent!
In earlier games I didn´t send as much scouts and as far away as now and consequently I got a lot barbs, too.
So the best defense is to explore and colonize!

I know the hut pattern, and also think there could be another special in that city location, but why would it be a whale? It would be a water one, so it could be a fish or whale. Just curious if I'm not fully schooled in specials to the point that I should know what specials they would actually be as well as where they might be.

Well, I hope I can explain that.
Let´s see, at first you always have 8 specials in a certain area, and 2 distintive pattern, like these:

Second comes the seed level (not sure what´s it in English), i.e. what kind of specials are in that pattern. In my example all specials are the same in one pattern.

Now for our GOTM map.
First we have 2 silk and 1 whale and on the western island another silk and to the south 1 whale. Then we do NOT have a special on the southern mountain, in the 2 tile lake near the starting position NOR on the plains tile next to the northen mountain.
Ok, that means that it has to be the second pattern, 6 specials in a row and 1 above and 1 below.
Now as a conclusion there have to be even 2 specials in the darkness sea and another one on the eastern tip of grassland on the western island.
So far so good, this should be obvious to most players. Now why a whale?!
The seed gives you either 8 equal specials or 2*4 different specials. BUT we already know 5 specials, 2 whale and 3 silk, in that area. Whale and silk are the SAME special, ´just´ convert water to forest.

So it has to be 8 equal specials in the second type of pattern.
Therefore a (or better 2) whale!

I hope this was understandable. :crazyeyes
To review this just open an empty map in your map-editor and play around with the seed level (?) and terrain converter.
Hope this helps!

 

[Duke of Marlbrough]

Originally posted by Lucky
My strategy against roaming barbs popping up near the darkness is to explore as much and as early as possible. I think that by 2000BC I knew most of my continent (maybe a bit later ). Also the 2 settlements I got were in the far eastern and northeastern part of the continent so no possible barbs from there. I´m not quite sure but there is something like a minimum distance a barb uprising has to have to the next town, maybe even to the next unit. So that leaves only the northern part and this other western island.

Yes, there is a minimum distance from a city that roaming Barbs will appear, but having them near the darkness doesn't matter. They can appear in explored terrain as well as unexlpored. And that doesn't stop hut barbs from appearing. Hut barbs won't appear only if the hut is within a cities radius.

I'd rather have romaing or sea Barbs over hut barbs anyday. Hut barbs don't have a leader.

And maybe seaborne barbs don´t come until you have mapmaking?!

Nope, they appear somewhere on the map at fixed intervals (I don't remember the details, but they start on a certain turn and a new one is 'born' something like every 10th turn after that until a certain tech is discovered). [I should write this stuff down somewhere so I don't have to relearn it everytime I forget the details.]

The seed gives you either 8 equal specials or 2*4 different specials. BUT we already know 5 specials, 2 whale and 3 silk, in that area. Whale and silk are the SAME special, ´just´ convert water to forest. So it has to be 8 equal specials in the second type of pattern. Therefore a (or better 2) whale!?!

Now I remember reading about this before. I just never much use it when I 'm playing. I never much cared what speical it was, just where they were. Guess the saying is ture, 'If you don't use it, you lose it'.

Wow. This is the longest discussion that has been carried on in here in awhile.

 

[Lucky]

Originally posted by Duke of Marlbrough
Hut barbs won't appear only if the hut is within a cities radius.

I used this feature, too. So along with that 4 barbs out of 15 or so huts is pretty nice but not unusual.

I'd rather have romaing or sea Barbs over hut barbs anyday. Hut barbs don't have a leader.

True, but in the beginning hut barbs only have 1 unit, the others at least 2 and most of the time stronger ones!

Nope, they appear somewhere on the map at fixed intervals (I don't remember the details, but they start on a certain turn and a new one is 'born' something like every 10th turn after that until a certain tech is discovered).

Ok!
Wasn´t sure about that one, but they do have to sail a small way and I don´t remember fighting them really early (like in the first 10-20 turns).
And the certain tech is Automobile!

Now I remember reading about this before. I just never much use it when I 'm playing. I never much cared what speical it was, just where they were. Guess the saying is ture, 'If you don't use it, you lose it'.

I always use this after the initial exploration to determine where to start my SSC.

Wow. This is the longest discussion that has been carried on in here in awhile.

Great, aren´t we!
We sure do a lot to keep the Civ2 GOTM alive!

 

[Matrix]

Here's a stupid mod-post of mine...

Lucky, DoM, please keep the subject of this thread about the current GOTM, not about huts. (Stay on topic.)

Leowind, I added "(spoiler thread)" the title. I hope you don't mind.

 

[Duke of Marlbrough]

Originally posted by Matrix
Lucky, DoM, please keep the subject of this thread about the current GOTM, not about huts. (Stay on topic.)

Well I'm not sure at what point it went off topic because it started out talking about specific things about the GOTM, but somewhere it went off on it own. Sorry.

Ok, back on topic....

At about 1200 BC now. I'm really hitting unhappiness now. New cities I'm founding are not only unhappy, but angry! So settlers are building roads and improving terrain rather then foudning new cities for now. Hopefully I'll have the HG done in 4-5 turns and that should help alot. I have all the land explored that I know of so boats may be forthcoming.

 

[Smash]

I finally got around to starting(busy with Simgolf of all things).
Wow.Talk about a hut fest.Nice land also.
I played till 2000 bc and allready have received:
Pottery
5 archer
1 chariot
1 horseman
50 gold
3 advanced tribes
3 barbs(minus 1 advanced tribe )

I built close to the silk pretty quick.2nd went down I think where Lucky's capitol is.Worked both silks until warriors were built.One then uncovered a whale.Those 2 warriors started the ball rolling with 1 archer after Pottery was found in hut#1.Support became a small problem,but 2 fairly early advanced tribes took care of that.Not bad locations either.Then,unfortunately,the 2 gallant warriors met their demise fearlessly entering barb huts.They were avenged and their efforts will be immortalized in a wonderous Gardens....sometime

I have a feeling that stupid Simgolf is going to cut into this months gotm time :crazyeyes

 

[Lucky]

Originally posted by Matrix
Lucky, DoM, please keep the subject of this thread about the current GOTM, not about huts. (Stay on topic.)

Well, we were discussing what kind of specials there are in the darkness in our GOTM and the random appearance of barbs in our GOTM, maybe a bit too much detail, but it could help some newer players.


Anyway, did play again today, as I couldn´t access the forum.
I´m now in the ADs, starting to exterminate the AI.
Let´s see, what happened today?
Well, I was able to finish the Pyramids before the Americans, but they switched to Colossus, so I had to spend all my money to get it done in my SSC in time.
And I discovered MapMaking, built my first triremes and sent them along with some diplos and horsies. But the Americans discovered me before I could send those triremes far enough AND they declared WAR on me, simply because I didn´t want to give them my tech! :crazyeyes
They´ll regret that but first I have started to eliminate the Vikings, the Americans have built the Great Wall so I might wait a bit longer.
The positive thing I got is trade of course. My SSC is prospering nicely, building Newton´s U. right now. And I already got a trade revenue of over 500 gold from one trade with an American city.
Michel´s Chapel is also built in another city, as well as Copernicus, Great Library, Lighthouse and even Marco Polo´s. I have 2 great cities (SSC and Isthmus) and several other nice ones along with 2 other pretty productive cities.
The first island are beginning to get settled as well and I traded maps with the Mongols. That continent will be quite a challenge to conquer.

And concerning the barbs, I have met them now, but they don´t seem to be interested in my continent. I witnessed 2 landings near Viking cities and 3 uprisings on the Mongol/English continent. They did destroy one of my exploring parties though. And on the Viking island I got 2 barb huts full of barb horsies. At that time I didn´t have any units or cities there yet (exept the explorer of course). So they harassed my now enemy the Vikings.

 

[jomey]

After my initial good start, I proceeded to explore for a few civs.. Wish I read frunobulax post earlier but nevermind.. I started to colonise other islands.. Doing pretty well as far as number of cities goes but the unhappiness is killing me.. Managed to get the Pyramids but lost out on Collossus. Promptly switched my style of play to go for a quick finish and try and overrun the other civs but all plans have backfired as barbs are starting to cause problems...Lost out on Cops so my plan for a SSC really went downhill form there.

Mongols and English started giving me problems as they just won;t leave me alone.. Luckily I managed to get to the Great Library first and promptly dropped my science rate to get some money in the bank...

After many centuries of planning & colonising I can start on a long war campaign on 3 fronts with English/Mongolians & Americans.. I know it's a bad idea but its fun
Date is now approx 1800 and the Mongols have died, The English are down to the last few cities, The Americans are wasting all their resources on a fortified musketeer on a fortressed mountain , and my ironclads are just starting to approach the American coastline...
Have managed to get to a few wonders - MC , Isaac Newton , Oracle (Whhhyy??) and managed to capture the Hanging Garden 2 turns before I discovered Railways .

Not a perfect game by any stretch of the imagination but not bad considering I had a really bad mid-game.. Should finish them off in the next few decades