GOTM 165 Spoiler

[Peaster]

@grigor: In my opinion, early taxes are almost always better than early science. The only exception I can think of is a fairly rare situation like this: approx 6-7 cities in Diety, with monarchy still 10-20 turns away. Here, further growth would have to wait for science to catch up. So, beakers > taxes here. I also sometimes raise science temporarily if I need some other special advance urgently, such as Trade.

Like you, I got 50g from a hut. I spent it quickly on a RB thru row 4. After that, I IRB'd any row 1 with about 3-9 shields, and I usually RB'd rows 3 and/or 4 if possible. After hbr, I IRB'd row 2 asap too. IIRC, I had taxes on max until nearing a need for monarchy, and generally spent my gold as soon as possible throughout most of the game. IMO this style is part of good ICS.

Overseas van deliveries can eventually dominate ICS methods, but I still keep taxes as high as I can, and pump spare gold mostly into RBing vans and boats. Assuming you do not need science at that point, this system makes sense with trade bonuses over approx 150g each. If the beakers also matter to you, deliveries as low as 75g are OK. If ongoing trade routes also really matter to you (but IMO they should not) even smaller bonuses are OK.

 

[Ali Ardavan]

Wow! I was gone on a trip for a couple of weeks and when came back had to catch up with real life first. So the game, and this thread, was put on the back burner.

After a few years dealing with illness and personal issues , I am Back

Glad to see you back URUWASHI. Hopefully the problems are all done and will get to see you regularly again.

I am playing for a fairly early conquest, as always...
OK, but I got no nomads or ATs until approx 200BC. My growth rate is pretty far behind my norm and the games of halewuud and Urawashi.
...
Stats at +1: 38 cities ...

Glad to see you back playing Peaster. Without early hut luck you still managed to have 75% more cities than I at +1. Amazing; particularly considering I had more than many other players.

1AD Hut: German South. Washington builds Aqueduct. .

Status: 39 Cities ...

You had some early hut luck but still having 39 cities by +1 is amazing. This is one of the toughest competitions we have had recently.

I played a few turns some time ago and then took my frequently civ2-break. So I will be skipping this one and be back for #166.

Major, missing this competition is a pity. I wish you were playing too. May be it is not too late for a last minute effort. The deadline got extended. I have not finished myself but intend to do so by the weekend.

 

[Ali Ardavan]

My game is going slow. I should have stopped expansion and started conquest earlier than I did. I razed London with an elephant and could have done the same elsewhere. But my bigger problem is the habit of serial conquest; I should have started a multi-front conquest.

At +500, English and Egyptians are gone (the latter thanks to Japanese). Japanese are down to a couple of cities and no capital. I have a large army approaching Celtic capital.
I am preparing a small army for the Sioux. I allied with Germans for 250g and have to leave them to be last.

+0260 Phalanx survives English warrior. Domestic deliveries for 60, 64. Nomad founds Shiraz on island 9.
+0270 Japanese develop Feudalism. This is going to make it much more difficult to conquer them. Kish founded on island 24. Silver to Nottingham for 80. Nottingham bribed for 350g. Got Pyramids, 129g, barracks, and 3 units. T7L0S3
+0280 Monotheism -> Theology. Cairo founded. 7 barbarian horsemen from hut on island 9. Domestic Hides for 52. Fereidoon founded.
+0290 Barbarians kill my warrior. Legion survives barbarian legion. Celts, Germans, and Sioux ignore my tribute demand. T7L0S3
+0300 Aleppo founded. Hastings bribed for 192g. Got 81g and Phalanx. Barbarian leader for 50g.
+0310 Canterbury bribed for 118g. Got 55g and warrior. Beads to Kyoto for 240. T3L0S7.
+0320 Island 9 pikeman survives 2 barbarian horsemen and turns vet.
+0330 Island 9 pikeman survives another barbarian horsemen. Domestic Hides for 28.
+0340 Medicine from hut. Seafaring -> Celt -> Bridge Building, maps.
+0350 Coventry bribed for 171g. Got 62g and warrior. English civilization destroyed.
+0360 Island 9 pikeman survives another barbarian horsemen. Refused to remove troops near Kyoto. Japanese declare war and lose 2 units attacking my vet legion in fort. Theology -> Republic. Domestic Wine for 100. Lost a crusader on Satsuma before its single defender is killed. Japanese Nara bribed for 162g. Got 33g, Engineering, and a legion. Damascus founded. Poole founded again.
+0370 Japanese lose another unit attacking me. Michelangelo built. London founded. Satsuma captured for 34g and Granary.
+0380 Japanese lose another unit attacking me.
+0390 Japanese build Sun Tzu and develop Chivalry. They lose two more units attacking me. Accepted German offer of 250g for declaring war on Celts. 2 Archers defending Kyoto killed. Beads to Japanese for 64.
+0400 Japanese kill an elephant. Last defender of Kyoto killed and the city taken for Sun Tzu, 63g, and Granary. All 5 barracks sold. Japanese Osaka bribed for 213g. Got King Richard, 40g, pikeman, and barracks. Domestic Beads for 20.
+0410 Japanese lose another unit attacking me.
+0430 Japanese lose another unit attacking me. Republic -> Navigation. Domestic Beads for 56. Japanese Edo bribed for 66g. Got 13g, pikeman, and barracks. Republic established. T3L4S3
+0440 Barbarian legion lands near Richmond. Wide spread celebrations. Bach built. Population is 4.4M. Barbarian legion killed. Barbarian trireme bribed for 82g. Domestic deliveries for 80.
+0450 Japanese build a new capital at Heliopolis. Domestic deliveries for 60. T2L6S2
+0460 Domestic deliveries for 90.
+0470 Japanese lose a unit attacking me. Lost a crusader attacking Kagoshima. Domestic deliveries for 228, 180.
+0480 Japanese lose 2 units attacking me. Navigation -> Physics. Silk to Japanese for 186. Domestic deliveries for 75. Celtic Rhondda razed. Lost my last elephant attacking Celts.
+0490 Celtic warrior killed. T3L4S3
+0500 Domestic deliveries for 62, 117. 2 defenders of Heliopolis killed and the city captured for 26g. Senate hands cease fire to Japanese. 50g from hut. Japanese Nagoya subverted for 2x320g. Got 60g, 2 archers, a settler, and a granary. Hampshire founded.

Status at +500
Population: 12.5M; Cities: 58; Techs: 32; Government: Republic
Gold: 93; Cost: 13; Trade routes: 55D0F;
Ancient Wonders: Pyramids, Hanging Gardens, Great Wall
Medieval Wonders: Marco, King Richard, Sun Tzu, Michelangelo
Industrial Wonders: Bach
Units: 33 settlers, 2 warriors, 2 Phalanx, 4 Archers, 5 Legions, 32 Pikemen, 3 horseman, 9 Crusaders, 3 Knights, 16 Triremes, 1 Caravel, 16 diplomats, 14 vans, 1 explorer
Footprint: 21 cities in home (no more planned); 8 in England; 10 in Japan; 4 on 23; 3 on each of 10 and 22; 2 on each of 11, 14; 1 on each of 9, 12, 16, 21, 24.
Goals: Magellan, Magnetism, Leo, bribing the rest of Japanese cities, conquest of Celts. Democracy or Fundamentalism or keep the Republic?
Celt: 12 cities, 19 techs; Lighthouse; war with me, Germans, and Sioux
Japanese: 2 cities, 15 techs;
German: 7 cities, 17 techs; war with Celts and Sioux, allied with me
Egyptian: Destroyed by Japanese
English: Destroyed by me
Sioux: 5 cities, 20 techs; Colossus; war with Celts and Germans

 

[Ali Ardavan]

An emergency out of town trip delayed the last few turns of this game. Germans were last and it took quite a few turns to reach them due to their geography.

+0510 Advanced tribe founds Tokyo. 100g from hut. Izumo and Raqqa founded. Senate hands peace to Japanese.
+0520 Physics -> Magnetism. Domestic deliveries for 63
+0540 Had to withdraw from Kagoshima due to peace. Elephantine subverted for 2x366g. Got 104g, granary, temple, and 3 units. Neyriz founded. Domestic deliveries for 111.
+0550 Domestic deliveries for 102, 93, 68, 50.
+0550 Magnetism -> University.
+0560 Turned down Sioux offer of alliance against Germans. Crusader from hut. Legion from hut. Domestic deliveries for 48, 36. Senate hands cease fire to Celts; my crusader backs up into an empty fort.
+0570 Magellan built. Senate hands peace to Celts. Kagoshima bribed (rather than subverted) for 224g. Government falls. Got 58g, barracks, and 2 units. Japanese civilization destroyed. T0L6S4. Broke peace treaty with Sioux and killed the only defender of Three Forks. The defenseless city is then bribed for 189g. Got 58g and trireme. Celtic Armagh and Caerphilly bribed for 372g and 208g.
+0580 Lost 2 vet crusaders on Cardiff before its 3 defenders behind city walls were killed and the city taken for 59g and Lighthouse. Kells bribed for 216g.
+0590 Republic established. Domestic deliveries for 66, 90, 112, 77, 80. Two defenders of Caernarfon killed and a vet crusader lost. The defenseless city bribed for 175g. Lost a vet horse attacking Celts. Rhymney bribed for 198g. Crusader and nomad from huts. 2 defenders of LittleBigHorn killed and the city taken for Colossus and 99g. Canceled German alliance. T3L4S3
+0600 Barbarian legion lands near Buffalo. 3 Celt units killed. Single defender of Celtic Cork killed. 1 Sioux unit killed. Barbarian Frigate bribed for 102g.
+0610 Barbarian legion dies in attack on my city. Celts lose 2 units attacking me. University -> Chemistry. Cork captured for 30g. Senate hands peace to Celts. Tintagel subverted for 2x320g. Domestic deliveries for 93, 62, 28. Single defender of Killdeer killed and the city captured for 40g. Senate hands cease fire to Sioux as well. Provoked Germans into declaring war.
+0620 Refused to remove troops. Celts declared war. Cedar Creek bribed for 244g. Domestic deliveries for 122, 72, 75, 62. Bear Paw subverted for 2x186g. Faribanks founded by nomad. T4L4S2
+0630 Germans kill a warrior. Domestic deliveries for 97, 120, 90.
+0640 Germans kill a crusader. Chemistry -> Invention. German elephant killed. 2 defenders of Carmarthen killed and the city bribed for 142g. Celtic civilization destroyed. German Iona bribed for 76g. Rhondda founded. Senate backs me up against Germans. German diplomat killed.
+0650 Domestic deliveries for 147, 60. 2 German units killed. Munich bribed for 240g. T2L4S4
+0660 Munich survives a German elephant. Lost a crusader killing the 2 defenders of Konigsberg and capturing the city. Six barbarian horsemen from northern hut will surely kill my explorer. Nomad from island hut. Domestic deliveries for 51, 55, 90. Tech bombed Sioux.
+0670 Invention -> Banking. Bouremouth founded. Domestic deliveries for 70. None legion from German hut. Nomad founds Abskun. Laar founded. 25g from hut. Lost 2 knights attacking Heidelberg. Wounded Knee subverted for 2x236g. Sioux civilization destroyed. Tech cost went from 1254 to 1520.
+0680 Leo built. Luxor founded. Domestic deliveries for 135, 93, 40. One German unit killed.
+0690 None crusader from German hut. Domestic deliveries for 8, 78. Lost a knight attacking Frankfurt. Killed a German catapult. Canal founded.
+0700 Banking -> Sanitation. Domestic deliveries for 105, 95, 64, 97, 102. Nuremberg bribed for 237g. Barbarian chariot bribed for 61g and used to capture barbarian leader for 50g. Senate backs me up against Germans. 4 barbarian horsemen from remote island hut; diplomat escapes. Leipzig bribed for 616.
+0710 Legion from polar hut. Lost 3 units capturing Heidelburg. Senate backs me up against Germans again.
+0720 Lost 4 units attacking Berlin killing one of its 2 defenders and heavily wounding the other. Manchester founded. Domestic deliveries for 129. Frankfurt bribed for 635g. Senate hands cease fire to Germans.
+0730 Sanitation -> Democracy. Aswan founded. Advanced tribe founds Toronto. Hamburg subverted for 2x308g. 50g from polar hut. Senate hands peace to Germans. Domestic deliveries for 66.
+0740 Domestic deliveries for 148, 2x36, 57, 165, 50.
+0750 Two pikemen survive barbarian horsemen. Democracy -> Economics. Democracy established. T0L10S0. 2 units from German huts. Rhana founded. Domestic deliveries for 105, 93, 50, 107. Took advantage of revolution and attacked Germans. Lost 2 units before taking Berlin. German civilization destroyed.

 

[grigor]

Ten year goal:
see how far I can get in the tech tree: Banking (I have about half of 840), Wheel (steal from English), Eng, Inv, Demo
Trade: big Silk delivery in 6 turns

10 Boston Hides to York (d, 240). Delay Banking two turns to steal Wheel.
20 Phoenix builds LH. Hut: NONE crook. Hut: Wheel – no need to wait. Hut: Astro.
30* Cincinnati hides to York (d, 136), 23SE founded. Hut: 50g Germans: Peace
40 Banking=> Eng. Naples Hides to York (d, 72). New Orleans Copper to Thebes (d, 168)
50 Germans sneak attack, kill crook. Philadelphia Silk to Leipzig (d, 408). Hut: Venice
60 Hastings razed. 23 NW founded
70* Eng => Inv. Chicago Salt to Memphis (d, 210). Boston Hides to Heliopolis (d, 304) Hut: Navigation – well, I can build Magellan, but delivery rates are now going to be low. NY Silk to Camarthen (u, 68) See?!! German West founded.
80 Japanese develop Bridges. New Orleans Hides to Heliopolis (u, 54). Trade Nav to Japanese for Bridge Building to make Demo available.
90 Inv =>Demo

*****************************
Goal: Demo by 150AD (good luck!)
Decision: Cope’s in Washington now or Leo in 2 turns?
I think Leo, because it costs less to make 8 SoL vans, so only one turn of high tax.
Other funds from Phl Beads van, Silver van to Kyoto (probably need escort)

Conquer plans:
English: need 3 crooks for London, 2 dips for Canterbury and York.
Do it fast so German attack can begin.
Put New Hastings on Coast.
If they have other cities mopup can be later.

Germans: Put Two more cities in W.
Build up forces for Berlin (5 Crooks)
Maybe conquer Frankfurt early and get tribute in the Govt change year.

Japs/Egypt – plenty of time once the shipchain is done.
Need Canal City on Swamp

Sioux: need staging city near LBH, which also could carry a silk van.

Celts: need one more staging city in far north for Cardiff.
Others will be rolled up from the south with shipchain from home island.

Set Tax to 70

100. Magellan in Phoenix. Adjust shipchains.. Need another turn of Taxes.
110* Hastings re-founded on coast. German NW founded. Only one more round of tax needed.
120 Leonardo. Cincinnati Gold to Washington (d, 60) unblocks Silk. Hut: NONE legion. Vans prepared for SoL in 3 turns. Use Van delivery funds to conquer English next turn.
130 Japanese: War. Warriors immolate on phalanx.
Cremona Silver to Kyoto (d, 100). Phl Beads to Konigsberg (d, 120). Hut: legion
English war over in 1 turn! – 2 crooks empty London, one crook empties Canterbury, a Settler razes London (33g., WC - good – we will go for Feudalism next) York subverted for 204 (90g in return), Canterbury bribed for 63, netting a chariot.
140 Egypt Canal founded on swamp. Science to 40
150* Japanese Ellie immolates on Phalanx in fort =>vet. Demo => Feudalism. - I made it! - Revolution – Monarchy. Get tribute: Sioux: 100g. Celts: 150g. Germans: peace, 50g. Egypt: peace, no tribute. Re-revolt to Demo. - no unhappiness at 50 Lux. Vans delivered for SoL

***************************

Decision: a few turns of Demo or Fundy right away: there is a van near Leipzig – and one heading for LBH. maybe get Feudalism and Sun Tzu first? Fundy science is comparable to non-van delivery Demo, but there is growth potential here.

160 Cincinnati builds Statue of Liberty. Washington Gems to Leipzig (d, 294)
170. Vans in place for big delivery – taxes to 50
180 Chicago Silk to LBH (d, 324) Cunaxa Hides to Cedar Creek (d, 152). Sioux SE founded. Buy lots of warriors for coming upgrade.
190* Feudalism =>Guns. Most of the warrior builds were one turn late and totally wasted. Washington silk to Memphis (d, 318). Vans delivered for Sun Tzu. Vans in place for Copes. Revolution. Tribute: Celts: 250g. Germans: War. Egypt, War. Sioux, War.
200 St. Louis builds Sun Tzu. Gov: Fundamentalism.

****************************

220 Salamis Hides to Cedar Creek (d, 84). Hamburg captured. Germans: we get 200g for peace. Frankfurt bribed for 340.
230* Little Bighorn captured.
240 Sioux: 250g for peace. Cincinnati Silk to Memphis (d, 108). Cremona Hides to Cedar Creek (d, 48). Buy white goods.
250 Renounce German Treaty: War. Sneak attack Celts. Cardiff captured. Camarthen emptied and bribed for 81g. Berlin captured (Pyramids). Leipzig bribed.
260 Gunpowder => Physics. Cedar Creek bribed. Konigsberg captured, Germans destroyed.
290 Three Forks found, Bribed. Sioux destroyed. Boston Wine to Thebes (d, 100) Oracle in Phoenix
320 Caernafon bribed, Celts destroyed.

Japanese and Egyptians fell in the same turn sometime later. I ended with 94 Cities. 12 Wonders.

I think Peaster wins the green, but this was an interesting and challenging game.

 

[Peaster]

grigor: I finished in

Spoiler :

250AD. Probably Inkerman was very close, maybe a few turns past this.

I assume it is OK to post this now that the game has been over for a few weeks.

I agree it was interesting. I felt that the opening did not go well for me, and I may have been the last to monarchy. The later phases were smoother. You built up a huge civ very quickly, so I guess you have a shot at gold [though I have not compared the other games carefully].

 

[grigor]

@Peaster: i think even with this big buildup my style is too lean for gold. But we shall see. I thought it was ironic that the Egyptians/Japanese were the last to go for me.

 

[Inkerman]

Peaster finishes many turns before me.

My previous post was to 250AD.
Log from then to end

Spoiler :

260- Give Republic and Philosophy to Sioux to get maps. Give Trade to Celts.
Van, Los Angeles - Heliopolis (Egyptian), Salt(und), for 44g.
270- Give Iron to Celts. They break off talks quickly - two cities location not known.
Capture Berlin.
280- Attack Celts and Sioux.
Destroy Caernarfon. Capture Little Bighorn, Sioux abandon GW, destroy Three Forks. No need for us to build GW after all.
Hut (in Japan):Nomads.
290- Bribe Wounded Knee for 288g, acquiring Colossus. 107g back.
Capture Kyoto, acquiring Pyramids.
Hut: NON crusaders.

300- Destroy Frankfurt - Germans out.
Crusader lost by Carmarthen - conquest of Celts looking trickiest. Didn't get it quite right between forces for Sioux (now 10 crusaders in general vicinity) and Celts (now only 3 after losses.)
310- Washington builds GL.
Capture Armagh from Celts - will RB units here to help.
Attack Egyptians, destroying Alexandria and Pi-Rameses.
Capture Cedar Creek.
Hut: University.
320- Van, Dallas-LosAngeles, Dye, for 44g. Found Malin.
330- Found Welshpool.
Vans, Richmond-Thibes, Hides, for 24g, Atlanta-Albuquerque, Dye, for 64g.
340- Bribe Heliopolis for 110g, get 29g back, and Egypt has another city, Giza.
Destroy Slim Buttes.
350- Bribe Kagoshima for 110g. Hut:Crusaders. Hut:Barbs. Hut:Crusaders. Hut:Crusaders.
3 crusaders lost to barbs and Celt ele.

360- Van, Los Angeles - Boston, cloth, for 70g.
Locate Giza by agreeing peace, giving techs, and swapping maps.
Bribe Osaka for 108g, Japanese out.
Capture Stony Lake.
370- Disc Construction -> ToG.
Capture Cardiff and its Oracle.
Bribe Killdeer for 56g, Sioux out.
380- Find last Celt city - they have 4 left.
Hut: Economics. Hut:50g.
390- Bribe Kells for 183g. Destroy Caerphilly.
400- Washington builds Adam Smith Trading Co.
Hut:Barbs.

410- Hut:Crusaders. Hut: ToG.
Van, New York- Tintagel, Hides, for 152g.
Van, Baltimore- Tintagel, Beads(und), for 56g.
Capture Carmarthen.
420- Start on Engineering. 2 more vans to Tintagel. Vans piled into wonders.
Raze Tintagel, Celts out. Just one city left - will hold off one turn.
Revolution. Hut: Barbs.
430- Build more wonders, become republic, bribe Giza. Egypt out - game will end.

 

[grigor]

My end date:

Spoiler :

I finished in 330