Discussion in 'Civ2 - Game of the Month' started by Inkerman, Oct 5, 2015.
Probably won't matter if Ali's going for EC anyways.
This period was prep for war and culminated with a successful attack on walled well-defended Sioux capital. As usual, my bottleneck was boats. Somehow I never build enough though this time I built a lot more than usual.
+0020 Polytheism -> Philosophy.
+0080 Hanging Gardens built. T7L0S3. Domestic Silver for 24 establishes the first trade route.
+0120 Celts build Colossus. Birmingham (home of the Gardens) celebrates. Bristol founded. Copper from London to Wounded Knee establishes the first foreign trade route for 136.
+0140 Philosophy -> Monotheism -> Seafaring. First Barracks built.
+0160 Leicester founded. Philosophy -> Celt -> Construction.
+0180 Carlisle founded.
+0200 Domestic offshore hides for 32.
+0240 Michelangelo built. Beads to Sioux for 72.
+0280 Wine to Sioux for 190.
+0300 Seafaring -> Republic. Dezful founded.
+0320 Undemanded Beads to Sioux for 84.
+0340 Portsmouth founded.
+0360 Silver to Sioux for 130.
+0380 Construction -> Sioux -> Astronomy, maps.
+0400 Lighthouse built.
+0420 Salt to Sioux for 80. Berwick founded.
+0480 Sioux walled capital of Cedar Creek attacked with 4 crusaders, 3 of them vet. The 3 defenders are killed by the vets and the city is taken for 57g and city walls. Single defender of Little Bighorn killed and the undefended city bribed for 90g. Got 15g and Granary.
+0500 Exeter founded. Wounded Knee bribed for 295g. Got 37g and Phalanx.
Status at +500
Population: 2.6M; Cities: 31; Techs: 21; Government: Monarchy
Gold: 324; Cost: 6; Trade routes: 12D2F;
Wonders: Pyramids, Hanging Gardens, Lighthouse, Marco, Michelangelo
Units: 15 settlers, 24 warriors, 1 Phalanx, 6 crusaders, 10 triremes, 5 diplomats, 9 vans
Footprint: 25 cities on homeland; 1 in 16, 2 in 19, 3 in Sioux homeland.
Goals: Trade with Celts (one boat is on its way), Great Wall (3 turns), Republic, celebration while we reach Celts.
Celtic: 10 cities, 15 techs; Colossus
Sioux: 4 cities, 16 techs
Doesn't city walls boost unit defense against land units by x3? If so, how did you beat them so easily? They had 9 defense power and your vets had 7.5 attack power. Seems like you attacked a bit early and lucked out.
Maybe it's wrong in the Civilopedia and only x2 defense? Idk...
As far as I recall, forts give you x2, and city walls give you x3; like you said. However, fortification of units behind city walls do not give an added advantage. So a Phalanx would be 6 and a vet Phalanx would be 7 (bonuses are always additive, never multiplicative). How did you get 9?
The first defender was a Phalanx and my vet crusader barely survived. The other two were warriors and an easy kill.
Ok, that explains it. I was taking in account the 50% bonus from fortification inside a city in my calcs, then tripling to get 9. I think I remember reading it somewhere now. Kinda counterintuitive, but whatever.
But the bonuses being additive, now that's news to me. The same behaviour must be applied for river and terrain bonuses, right?
Right. So if the city was on a river the vet phalanx's defensive strength would be 8 and on a rivered forest it would be 9.
I finished last night. All went according to plan. Republic was established in 540 which was of little concern to my war machine since Sioux capital was already taken and I planned on bribing most of their cities anyway. Republic + Michelangelo + Hanging Gardens + high lux (at the expense of science) gave me a good population boost which was capped at size 12 due to lack of sanitation.
Meanwhile, my triremes sailed fearlessly (thanks to lighthouse) west towards Celtic lands. The first trireme with 2 wine vans on board reached there in +720 and made a delivery. It took another 5 turns for my boats carrying vet crusaders to reach there and get into position. I waited one extra turn to reduce the length of anarchy. In +840 the Celtic capital fell and due to their good spread (they had 11 cities) it took till +1000 to finish.
+0520 Sioux catapult killed. Sioux Three Forks captured for 13g. Manchester founded.
+0540 Republic -> Navigation. Sioux horseman killed. Shushtar and Ipswich founded. Republic established. T4L6S0
+0560 Great Wall built. Sioux Slim Buttes bribed for 275g. Got 32g, Granary, and warrior. Domestic silver for 100.
+0600 Domestic Gems for 96. Stony Lake bribed for 108g. Got 12g and phalanx.
+0620 Senate hands peace to Sioux. Sioux Phalanx bribed for 42g to get it out of the way. One barracks sold. Killdeer subverted for 2x106g. Got 13g and Phalanx. Sioux civilization destroyed.
+0680 Domestic deliveries for 160.
+0700 Republic -> Celt -> maps. T4L5S1
+0720 Wine to Celts for 530.
+0740 Navigation -> Medicine. Wine to Celts for 270. Domestic deliveries for 102, 88, 150.
+0760 Babol founded.
+0800 Domestic deliveries for 60.
+0820 Medicine -> Wheel. Domestic deliveries for 39. Ready to attack Celtic capital but will delay one turn primarily for the oedo year in +860 and secondarily for my diplomats to get closer to Celtic island.
+0840 Revolution started. Six crusaders are ready to attack Kells. Without the benefit of city walls, all 3 defenders are killed easily. The city is captured for 18g. The remaining two crusaders kill 3 nearby Celtic units to reduce the chance of a counter attack. T2L6S2
+0860 Celts bring forward a crusader of their own but it does not manage to reach my forces. Celtic crusader killed. Celtic settler killed to open the way. Single defender of Tintagel killed and the city taken for 39g. Celtic horse killed. Rhymney bribed for 210g. Got 26g, Phalanx, and marketplace. Caerphilly bribed for 207g. Got 24g, warrior, and marketplace. Capua founded. Republic re-established. T4L4S2. Domestic deliveries for 62, 46.
+0880 Izeh founded.
+0900 Genoa founded. Single defender of Cork killed and the city taken for 14g. Senate supports me against Celts. Single defender of Cardiff killed and the city taken for 26g and barracks.
+0920 Celts finally counter attack but manage to kill only one crusader. Domestic deliveries for 242. Sioux crusader killed.
+0940 Celts build a new capital at Armagh. Celt settler killed. Rhondda bribed for 136g. Got 16g and phalanx. Carmarthen bribed for 570g. Got 37g, Colossus, phalanx, settler, and marketplace. Domestic deliveries for 24.
+0960 Wheel -> Engineering. Iona bribed for 333g. Got 29g and Phalanx. Hoveizeh founded. Domestic deliveries for 107, 58, 42.
+0980 Domestic deliveries for 48, 182. Single defender of Armagh killed and the city taken for 20g and marketplace. 2 Crusaders kill 2 defenders of Caernarfon. Celts are down to one undefended city though they do have at least 2 phalanxes around.
+1000 Magellan built. Silver Moon founded. Domestic deliveries for 96. T1L8S1. Single defender of Caernarfon killed. Celts could have moved another phalanx from a fort here, but did not. Caernarfon captured for 54g. Celtic civilization destroyed.
Here is the last part of my log, now that the deadline is over. I managed to finish before 1000AD as I wanted. I finished in 860AD (last Celt empty city with one active crusader next), but continued playing till 980AD before actually finishing and submitting.
I stupidly missed Light House, but this turn out to be not important
at all, as I was able to reach Sioux with triremes chain (I only don't
have the +1 move bonus for caravels but I am going for magnetism
instead). So I'm still looking forward EC.
500 Cannot find way to celts with triremes, needs Leo before. Or
should I take the risk? I recall navigation decrease risk but I
don't know how much. Does Magellans help? I'll try. I refuse to do
black cliking so I'll take the risk. It seems to work
540 Physics -> Warrior Code (I forgot to ask for Iron Working first.)
Wait: nobody has Iron Working :-( Sioux building wonder don't want
to trade any think. But did not plan to attack this turn. Hides
160g, 132g; Don't really need magnetism right now, don't want to
research Warior code, but invention out of reach (don't have
construction) and Sioux not willing to trade. Tax : 6.0.4 so let's
go for WLTK and money. I feel it's time to start final part.
560 Salamis(38) on the way to Celts. Hides 96g (to size 8 AI city!)
580 WLTK not working any more
600 Lisbon(39) very close to Celts. Update Celts map, road system is
not advanced. Will slow down conquest. Not huts so no advanced
tribes far away. No walls. Update Sioux map, nothing new, no
620 Hamburg(40) on south Sioux island just because I had nothing
better to do with it
640 Celts are starting to expand, I will want to take action. Sioux
will never find invention or finish wonder, nor Celts, in
time. Should I wait? I am not going for earliest conquest I guess.
660 First trirem lost in see (so this may happen with nav+magellans),
lucky she was empty.
680 Sioux Invention (at least!), and switch to leo. Warrior Code ->
Feudalism. Silver 190g, Hides 74g, 72g, 70g, Wine 76g, 68g. I will
stop trading with Sioux, not worth, even if Hides demanded. Sioux
now don't mind sharing knowledge and got invention.
700 Leo Workshop (no more trirems!). Feudalism -> Theology. Sioux do
not switch to crusade. No reason to wait then. Mmm, this is a oedo
year, I have to wait three more. Salzburg(41) near Celts cities.
720 Sun Tzu built. Tax 8.2.0 245 income.
740 Start disbanding caravels. Get maps for last time.
760 Revolution. 3 defensors in Cardif could not get the city. I should
have planned that, I will loose the LH as the city is now size
2. I destroyes Sioux capital as well (size 3 when I
attacked). Wonders are in other city. Bribe 2 Celts cities and 3
Sioux cities. My strategy didn't really worked well. I should
learn again how to conquer a civ.
780 Celts switched to monarchy and bribed a small city I've built
there. I also switched to Monarchy. Tax: 6.4.0 and many
Elvis. Bribe disorder Sioux city and capture colossus. So lucky!
Celts capital just grew up, so I captured Lighthouse. Bribed
another celt city.
800 5M pop. Sioux destroyed. Celts have two left. Venice(42) founded.
840 Revolution. I will not have time to go to Theology before the end
(that I choosed to be 1000AD)
860 Celts go to Republic. Me too. London builds Oracle. Last Celt city
bribed. There is only a single lonely empty one but our crusader
will wait a few turn so we can grow and finish last wonders. But
here is when I finished conquest. Gent(43) founded. Pisa(44) too.
900 8.8M pop.
920 10.7M pop.
940 Dublin(45 built; but 60th city)
960 Build Copernicus; Great Wall; Richard crusade. Toronto(46)
980 12.8M pop. Build GL. Two last settles (47, 48).
END -> Bribe last Celt city.
Stats at 980AD:
pop.: 3.1M; Cities: 37; Techs: 22; Gold: 1; Gov.: rep.; Wonders: Pyr,HG,MP,Mikes,Magellans; TR: 0D/15F
units: 11 settler, 11 trirems, 11 caravans
Both other civilisation destroyed.
Clearly it was a mistake stop expansion in 300AD. South cities, which
were far aways and were not of much use should have built more
settlers to expand souths, as I was not really going for fastest
Well. the "not fastest conquest" might be enough still to net you a green star. Good job!
Indeed ! Lucky that I "chose" to finish in 980AD and not in 1000AD From what I've seen from other GOTM, I understood it was quite possible to finish around 500AD even on large maps with 7 civs, so I tough my gameplay was not really EC. I guess the no huts setting and the not so good land (I mean mostly plains) made this game longer than usual for EC ? Maybe it is not really possible to compare gotm and maps.
I think many things went quite wrong in my strategy, but one good, I think, I did was to sail towards Celts early, west (and not east), having only one ship-chain with a stop at Sioux places, and also not destroying Sioux before ready to tackle Celts.
Glad you made the "right" choice. You deserve the green star in this case. The real luck in play here was that the usual EC players were either absent or chose not to play conquest.
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