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GotM 170 Spoiler

Discussion in 'Civ2 - Game of the Month' started by Inkerman, Oct 5, 2015.

  1. Jokemaster

    Jokemaster Insert something here

    Joined:
    Nov 15, 2010
    Messages:
    524
    They are so far away that I felt that the trade bonuses would be absurd. My land wasn't exactly bountiful, so it helped quite a bit. My GOTM 124 game (similar large map with 3 civs) also had a far-away Colossus, built by the Celts again. Didn't get to try largescale trading earlymidgame bc of getting Inv before Mono from a hut, so I wanted to try it out this time. Concept seems solid.
     
  2. lasingularidad

    lasingularidad Chieftain

    Joined:
    Nov 11, 2015
    Messages:
    27
    Location:
    Spain
    Sorry if my question wasn't clear. I meant, why reach them by the east route and not west route (which would start with the Sioux and continue towards the Celts)? It even seems a shorter route and you can have only one long ship chain so en-route caravan can decide whether stop at the Sioux (if small amount urge) or go towards the Celts (if commodities change or time for larger bonus).
     
  3. Jokemaster

    Jokemaster Insert something here

    Joined:
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    It was because the west side of my island was woefully underdeveloped with no good land or specials, so no good city sites to build boats from. I'd have to build/support many boats in the same cities, potentially with expensive rushbuys.

    It's not a big worry in Monarchy, but in Republic you get unhappiness if 2+ triremes supported by the same city are outside city limits. Which hampers celebrations. (Nevermind the shield support.) The same effect happens in Demo even when you have JS Bach (until you discover Magnetism, which transforms your boats in civilian units). I'd have to expend a lot of energies just to get it right, and possibly send over lots of boats from my east side. So it was mostly a convenience decision, since I didn't want to check too often where each individual commodity was heading once it was onboard (ok, do I stop here or do I keep going?). Having a separate chain for every AI trading partner makes it a very fire-and-forget thing. Which is a huge timesaver in massive PD games.
     
  4. lasingularidad

    lasingularidad Chieftain

    Joined:
    Nov 11, 2015
    Messages:
    27
    Location:
    Spain
    I see. I think I have almost never played a game with more than two or three caravan deliveries in the whole game, before this one. But now I read about this strategy (and watched profciv2 videos), which changes everything, and I understand in large games like this one you might have about 4 caravans leaving each turn (so you would need two ship chains anyways).

    BTW, I have finished my mid-conquest game. I have posted my log till 500AD, should I post what's following (which includes ending date, etc) or should I wait till the deadline is finished?
     
  5. Major Advantage

    Major Advantage Chieftain

    Joined:
    Mar 21, 2011
    Messages:
    504
    Location:
    Germany
    Welcome lasingularidad!
    Regarding that question, it is a common rule not to reveal the end date until the deadline.

    Regarding my own, I just played 2 more turns...took me about 1.5-2 hours. At least it is just one more turn until launch! Maybe I should have sticked to my rule (that I intentionally violated this time - there was so much room to grow into!) for spaceship-games: Launch the biggest ship as quickly as possible.
     
  6. Jokemaster

    Jokemaster Insert something here

    Joined:
    Nov 15, 2010
    Messages:
    524
    1010 AD: Astronomy > Theology. Warwick hides (d) to Tintagel: 576g. Richmond hides (d) to Tintagel: 392g. T4L4S2. 2 domestic trade routes for 110g total.
    Interturn: Sioux develop Currency. Celts start Sun Tzu’s.

    1020 AD: Theology > Navigation. York starts JS Bach, 6 vans in, 100s left. Leicester II built. Carlisle II built. Hastings hides (d) to Tintagel: 704g. T2L4S4.
    Interturn: Sioux gov’t overthrown.

    1030 AD: Ipswich II built.
    Interturn: Sneak attacked by the Sioux! Lose 2 ships and 2 vans. Alright mate, this middle finger is for you.

    1040 AD: Navigation > Invention. Cambridge beads (d) to Cardiff: 360g. Yewtch. Rush remaining shields for Magellan’s (Switched from JS Bach) Dip rushed in Oxford II: I intend to bribe Little Bighorn. Berwick II built. Naples II built.

    1050 AD: York Magellan’s, starts JS Bach. Leicester hides (nd) to Little Bighorn: 114g. Warwick hides (nd) to Little Bighorn: 86g, Need more deliveries to deliver next turn and not waste beakers: and I need to deliver next turn if I want the money to bribe Little Bighorn. T2L4S4 still. Sink murderous Sioux trireme. 3 vans in York: 250s left. Issos II built.
    Interturn: Sioux sack Issos II and take Navigation. Talk about bad luck. Random explorer.

    1060 AD: Invention > Gunpowder. Coulda-been-worse-luck. Next oedo year is 1090. Bribe Little Bighorn for 308g: get 40 back and Warrior Code. Still have the horsemen slot. There was only one legion inside… darn. Warwick hides (d) to Tintagel: 312g. Hastings hides (d) to Tintagel: 376g. Brighton wine (d) to Tintagel: 425g. Cunaxa II built.

    1070 AD: Gunpowder > Explosives. York wine (d) to Caernafon: 400g. Canterbury wine (d) to Tintagel: 585g. T1L4S5. Hastings II starts Leo’s and York switches to JS Bach: 7 vans used, RB the remaining shields. Massive van glut at Hastings II, the ship chain is almost ready… Rush JS Bach in York for 750g.
    Interturn: Celts deveop Construction.Sioux acquire it from GL.

    1080 AD: Hastings builds Leo’s. Many units upgraded. Explosives > Democracy. It always feels soo good when all my settlers are upgraded in Engineers… Canterbury wool, starts Cope’s. Should have done that a long time ago. York JS BACH’s. Coventry beads (d) to Kells: 368g. Birmingham hides (d) to Tintagel: 344g. Cremona II built. Warwick hides (d) to Tintagel: 312g. Birmingham silver (d) to Exeter: 62g. Hastings gold (nd) to Tintagel: 206g. Liverpool coal (nd) to Little Bighorn: 49g. Still not sure if full… Liverpool beads (nd) to Hastings II: 15g. That’s not helping… Leeds wool (nd) to Cambridge: 17g. T6L4S0. I really hope it’s enough for a 0-turn revolution…
    Interturn: Celts sneak attack! Lose a caravel, although it was not a critical one.

    1090 AD:Democracy > Physics. Phew! REVOLUTION! What.. not an instant revolution? Ah darn, must have forgot about that scientist in Berwick. Democracy established nonetheless. T5L5S0. Celebrate good times come on! Cannae II built.
    Interturn: Celts kill a van. Really?? That’s lame.

    1100 AD: Celebrations everywhere. Capoue II built. Turin II built. Gênes II built. Warwick hides (d) to Tintagel: 372g. Richmond hides (d) to Tintagel: 264g. Birmingham hides (d) to Tintagel: 428g. The ship chain is finally complete. Gloucester gold (d) to Cedar Creek: 204g. T2L5S3.

    1110 AD: Physics > Magnetism. Oxford dye (d)to Kells: 544g. Leicester hides (d) to Tintagel 2x: 440 and 440g. Celts: peace. T4L5S1. Crête II built. Many aqueducts built.

    1120 AD: Magnetism > Metallurgy. Tintagel now demands Coal and not wine: Hides demand untouched. Need to make a second ship branch for Caerphilly. Hastings hides (d) to Tintagel: 496g. Leicester hides (d) to Tintagel: 464g. Issos hides (d) to Tintagel: 448g. T3L5S2.

    1130 AD: Metallurgy > Theory of Gravity. Issos hides (d) to Tintagel: 448g. Richmond hides (d) to Tintagel: 296g. Prague wine (d) to Caerphilly: 500g. Vérone II built. T2L5S3. Salamis II built.

    1140 AD: Theory of Gravity > Electricity. Hastings hides (d) to Tintagel: 568g. Damn shame Tintagel is not the Colossus city. T5L5S0. 27s left in Canterbury for Cope’s. Lisbonne II built. Hambourg II built. Prague II built.

    1150 AD: Bristol wine (D) to Kells: 655g. Something else as well maybe? Idk. T2L5S3. Bunch of cities built, maybe 2-3. Reading coal (d) to Leeds: 82g.
    Interturn: Celts develop Engineering. Sioux get it from GL. Enjoy. Celts switch to KRC from Sun Tzu’s.

    1160 AD: Electricity > Refrigeration. Canterbury Cope’s. Issos wine (d) to Cardiff: 615g. Cannae wine (d) to Carmathen: 535g. Cunaxa cloth (nd) to Tintagel: 206g. Need to over-deliver to pay for everything. Leicester hides (d) to Tintagel: 568g. Melbourne hides (d) to Tintagel: 400g. Richmond hides (d) to Tintagel: 384g. Leicester hides (d) to Tintagel: 568g. Hastings copper (d) to Tintagel: 600g. Only 19 vans left… Brighton gold (d) to London: 66g. Milan II built. Ghent II built. Will probably have to end up finish by conquest bc not enough RL time. T5L5S0.

    1170 AD: Refrigeration > Conscription. Birmingham hides (d) to Tintagel: 640g. Hastings hides (d) to Tintagel: 624g. Warwick hides (d) to Tintagel: 452g. Londres silver (nd) to Tintagel: 176g. T4L5S1. Pise II built. Dublin II built. Toronto II built. T4L5S1.
    Interturn: Sioux develop Chivalry.

    1180 AD: Conscription > Atomic Theory. Cannae spice (d) to Carmathen: 672g. Warwick hides (d) to Tintagel: 476g. Hastings hides (d) to Tintagel: 624g. T5L5S0. Melbourne II built.
    Interturn: Celts almost done with KRC.

    1190 AD: Atomic Theory > Steam Engine. Exeter Gems (nd) to Cork: 238g. Exeter gold (nd) to Tintagel: 284g. York silver (d) to Little Bighorn: 225g. T0L5S5. Gênes coal (d) to Manchester: 70g.
    Interturn: Cardiff builds KRC. Sioux switch to Sun Tzu’s.

    1200 AD: Steam Engine > Chivalry. Canterbury starts Newton’s. Oxford wine (d) to Carmathen: 970g! Wow. Little Bighorn hides (d) to Tintagel: 380g. T5L0S5. Rush dip in LB.

    1210 AD: Douvres beads (nd) to Kells: 284g. Reading Gems (nd) to Cardiff: 168g. Subvert Wounded Knee for 636*2 gold. Get 61g+Chivalry. T4L5S1. Sydney II built. London III built.

    1220 AD: > Leadership. I did not discover it this turn… darn! York III built. Nottingham III built. Hastings III built.

    1230 AD: Leadership > Tactics. Leicester wine (d) to Cork: 975g. Birmingham wine (d) to Rhymney: 780g. Canterbury III built. Coventry III built. Dips near Celtic lands.

    1240 AD: Tactics > Amphibious Warfare. Liverpool copper (d) to Kells: 608g. Cambridge copper (d) to Tintagel: 528g. Lisbonne spice (nd) to Tintagel: 262g. Cunaxa wine (nd) to Cardiff: 242g. Subvert Caernafon for 721*2g, get 111g+60 from selling granaries. T4L3S3, officially putting an end to celebrations that lasted forever (talk about inefficiency) Need cash for the final conquest push. Warwick III built. Newcastle III built. Oxford III built. Liverpool III built. Douvres III built.

    1250 AD: Amphibious Warfare > Fundamentalism. Bribe Celtic diplomat for 150g. Coventry gems (d) to Killdeer: 366g. Little Bighorn Hides (d) to Tintagel: 416g. Douvres salt (nd) to Tintagel: 312g. T3L3S4. Brighton III built. Norwich III built. Leeds III built.

    STATUS AT 1250 AD: (176st turn)
    Cities: 118 Techs: 53 (currently researching Fundamentalism) Government: Democracy
    WoW: Pyramids, HG, Marco, Lighthouse, Mikes, Adam Smith’s, Magellan’s, Leo’s, JS Bach’s, Cope’s
    Units: 2 Musketeers, 6 Riflemen, 44 Engineers, 29 Caravans, 34 Galleons, 3 Diplomats
    Peace and maps with both enemy civs. Beachheads on both continents.
    Goals: Keep expanding, trading and might as well finish the game? Probably not gonna get gold or blue star, so might as well end it here since I feel like I’m behind the tech race as well. No green star either, I expect Peaster to finish by 680 AD or something.

    Usually, the conventional wisdom is to delay Invention/Navigation for as long as possible to keep the 2x trade bonuses. Unsure if this was the right choice here, as I grew quite noticeably after Demo and the trade bonuses ended up being similar-ish, although having more time to stockpile vans helped on the other hand. But if I had a chain to the Celts set up soon enough… maybe it changes.

    Dang, I wish I knew where the Celts were sooner, and prioritized MPE/LH more heavily. Island map doesn’t lend itself very well to blitzkrieg expansion, so the Pyramids’ effectiveness wasn’t that great in hindsight. Focused on the Sioux ship chain first but I ended up barely using it… Celt one was more effective. Had a lot of the southern map empty for a long while, maybe that will be the big difference in the end.

    Anyways, last part of my log. The rest is too spoilery.
     
  7. Major Advantage

    Major Advantage Chieftain

    Joined:
    Mar 21, 2011
    Messages:
    504
    Location:
    Germany
    I still have 4.5 turns to go. And my game crashed while I was moving vans around at the end of the turn, about 30 minutes after the last save, OUCH! It was still the same turn though, the save was when every unit was in place and only the ships were waiting, crash was when about 75% of moving ships/vans was done...still to come: rushbuying in cities. This game really grew huge! :crazyeye:

    Next part of my log, during which everything more or less started to explode:

    Stats at 1000AD:
    pop.: 14.7M; Cities: 112; techs: 39; gold: 207; Gov.: Rep; wonders: Pyr, HG, LH, Marco Polo, Michelangelo, Bach; TR: 22D/21F
    units: 53 engineer, 8 musceteer, 6 crusaders, 12 boat, 29 vans, 3 explorer, 1 dip
    Goals: more expansion; Demo next turn, then head for railroad+corporation, railroad-network, intensive trade, maybe shipchain to Celts

    1010 Demo(revolt&est.)->Physics; delivery 117; Silverpool, Savannah, Saguenay founded
    1020 120, 420; Sala, La Coruna, Stirling, Loch Lomond founded
    1030 Phys.->Steam engine; Junaxa founded
    1040 Santiago, Rouen, Saskatoon, Thunder Bay, Barcelona founded; 250
    1050 Steam->Railroad(1470); New Jersey, Pittsburgh founded; 306, 156; Luckily, we have a crusader from London in LBH, so zoom-to-Darwin should bring us corporation instantly
    1060 RR->Ind.->Corporation->Magnetism; Darwin built; Sportsmouth founded; Lux down to 20% and some entertainers
    1070 Vancouver, Providence, Andorra founded; 192, 260, 290, 195
    1080 Mag->Metal; Swimba, Poitiers founded 330, 212, 140
    1090 Metallurgy->Genetic Eng; Timmins, Hamburg, Mississauga founded; 182
    1100 Senua, Pitlochry founded; 88, 230, 260, 250
    1110 Genetic->Electricity; Cure for Cancer built, time to pick up celebrations; Gran Bahama founded; 194, 126, 102
    1120 Electr.->Ref.; Sioux Harbor founded; 228, 115, 430, 234, 200
    (Celts steal Steam Engine, we choose not to care)
    1130 Ref.->Steel; Wonderham, Bordeaux, Sydney founded; 88, 216, 306, 375, 290, 195
    1140 Steel->Combustion(1683); Shakespeare built in Pepperland; Lake Superior founded; 158, 246, 108, 234, 152, 142, 264, 335, 290, 182, 232, 400
    1150 Comb->Automobile; Ontario, Milwaukee, Santander, Brüssel, Lake Louise founded; 164, 117, 350, 315, 400, 165, 134, 174, 240
    1160 Auto->Electronics; 182, 194, 110, 135, 164, 484, 400, 170
    1170 Eletron.->Grav.->Mass Prod.(1925); 637, 240, 246, 228, 600, 924, 252; cut down science again, I cannt afford everything I want to buy...
    1180 MassProd.->Conscription; Newton College; Hannover, Lüttich founded; 177, 228, 394, 362, 234, 174, 420, 212
    1190 Conscr.->Chivalry; Coronation, Hudson, Port Sioux founded; 396, 356, 666, 355, 225, 590, 225, 122, 188, 338
    1200 Chiv.->Leadership; Sork, Calgary founded; 676, 267, 580, 803, 135, 136, 580, 222, 558
    1210 Leader->Tactics(2183); Minneapolis founded; 828, 50, 100, 276, 380, 375, 90, 216, 206, 324, 318, 207, 248, 1111, 693
    1220 Tactics->Mach.Tools->Mini; Miami, Dunedin founded; 457, 102, 1204, 450, 375, 548, 412, 154, 517, 166, 140, 560, 345
    1230 Mini->Computers->Atomic(2520); SETI built; Melbourne founded; 324, 278, 332, 380(1st delivery to Celts), 148, 350, 686, 483, 198, 580; now generating 4999 Beakers with 60%S>Get some more science and do a 3a/t?? Maybe not, would be short of gold
    1240 Atomic->NFiss->NPower; Valencia, Montpellier, Kiel, Frankfurt founded; 618, 234, 595, 147, 582, 870, 448, 666, 444, 957
    1250 NPower->Laser->Flight; Hoover Dam built; Tauranga, Everton founded; 469, 472, 352(My 1st and only delivery to Colossus), 534, 456, 227, 651, 183, 458, 314

    Stats at 1250AD:
    pop.: 107.96M; Cities: 168; techs: 67; gold: 212; Gov.: Dem; wonders: Pyr, HG, LH, Marco Polo, Michelangelo, Bach, Copernicus, Magellan, Shakespeare, Leonardo, Newton, Adam Smith Darwin, Hoover, SETI, Cure; TR: ?D/?F
    units: 120 engineer, 8 musceteer, 2 crusaders, 17 boat, 47 vans, 3 explorer, 2 dip
    Goals: more expansion; Spaceship
     
  8. Major Advantage

    Major Advantage Chieftain

    Joined:
    Mar 21, 2011
    Messages:
    504
    Location:
    Germany
    Finally finished and submitted! No more complaining, I just want to add that I bet my previous personal HOF-record (dating from the "pentagon") by LIGHTYEARS! :D
     
  9. Inkerman

    Inkerman Engineer Civ2 GOTM Staff

    Joined:
    Jan 14, 2011
    Messages:
    447
    Location:
    London
    Again, sorry to be missing at the time of the main conversation, particularly after starting the spoiler.

    I have now finished.

    Here's my log to AD 1250.

    1010- disc Gunpowder (warriors -> musketeers, phalanx -> musketeers) -> Explosives.
    1020- disc Explosives (settlers -> engineers) -> Economics.
    2 deliveries to Celts for 656g.
    1030- disc Economics -> BB (at last).
    Internal delivery for 72g.
    1040- Note I am giving up on Sioux discovering BB, they have been researching it for ages. Give 16 techs to Sioux (all except Steam Engine).
    Delivery to Sioux for 168g.
    1050- disc BB -> RR. SSC builds StEx.
    Give BB to Sioux, they can now research something else.
    Give Inv to Celts, they are still (5).
    Start several aqueducts (we have 1 so far.)
    Delivery to Sioux for 192g.

    1060- disc RR (cancel HG) -> Industrialization. Bitumen builds Adam Smith Trading Co.
    SSC size 24.
    Celts nearly done Oracle.
    1070-
    Cardiff builds Oracle.
    1080- disc Ind (galleon -> transport ) -> Corp.
    1090- disc Corp (caravan -> freight) -> Genetics.
    2 deliveries to Sioux for 492g.
    3 deliveries to Celts for 960g.
    1100- disc Gen -> Ref.
    SSC delivery for 108g.
    Delivery to Sioux for 225g.
    Delivery to Celts for 388g.
    Sioux start SoL.

    1110- disc Ref -> Met. SSC builds Factory.
    3 deliveries for 400g.
    1120- disc Met -> Electricity. Inkling discovers C4C.
    Give RR to Sioux. Give RR to Celts.
    3 deliveries for 1181g.
    Celts start Darwin.
    1130- disc Electricity (ironclad -> destroyer) -> Refrigeration.
    Give Steam Engine to Sioux.
    SSC delivery for 335g.
    Delivery to Celts for 435g.
    1140- disc Refrigeration -> Steel.
    Give Metallurgy to Sioux.
    Delivery to Celts for 558g.
    Internal delivery for 170g.
    1150- disc Steel -> Combustion.
    Give Steel to Sioux.
    Delivery to Sioux for 690g.
    Internal delivery for 132g.

    1160- disc Combustion -> Automobile. First pollution.
    Bitumen builds SoL. Sioux change to Darwin. SSC = size 25.
    Deliveries for 1569g.
    1170- disc Auto (cancel Leonardo) -> Electronics.
    3 deliveries for 663g.
    ... Sioux develop Industrialization. Sioux change to Suffrage.
    1180- disc Electronics -> MP. SSC completes Supermarket.
    Delivery for 128g.
    1190- SSC = size 27.
    3 deliveries for 509g.
    1200- disc MP -> Communism.
    Jane completes Darwin, disc Communism (cancel MPE) -> Espionage -> Recycling. Celts abandon.
    SSC builds Superhighways. SSC = size 28.
    Swap Industrialiazation and Gunpowder to Celts(5) for WC and HBR.
    2 deliveries for 1126g.

    Two-thirds point in techs. Have 58 techs, 29 to go.
    Lining up to do Feudalism next, allows Theology. And then Miniaturization (needs Machine Tools (also needed for AF) which needs Tactics, which needs Leadership, which needs Chivalry, needs HBR.)

    May not rush techs now, they will come no matter what, as we seek to build cities and trade.

    Celts start Suffrage.

    1210- disc Recycling -> Feudalism. SSC = size 29.
    Sioux ironclad appears.
    1220- SSC = size 30.
    Establish Embassy Sioux.
    1230- disc Feudalism -> Theology. SSC = size 31, and will rest.
    Asphalt builds Eiffel Tower.
    Van, Gems, SSC - Cardiff (Celt), for 1600g.
    Spend 1200g on wonder.
    1240- disc Theology -> Chivalry. SSC builds Mass Transit.
    Bitumen grants Women's Suffrage. Celts and Sioux abandon.
    Establish embassy with Celts. Give them Physics.
    1250- disc Chivalry -> Leadership.
    Spend 1200g on JSB.

    Status at 1250AD (Turn 175 in this large map game.)
    Population: 22.27M; Cities: 55; Techs: 62; Government: Democracy; Power: Supreme.
    Gold: 8577; Cost: 72(Smith); Trade routes: ?D?F;
    Wonders(16): Pyramids, HG, Colossus / MPE, Mike's, Copernicus, Magellan, Shakespeare /
    Leonardo, Newton. Adam Smith, Darwin's, SoL, Eiffel / WS, C4C.
    Sioux have LH, GL; Celts GW, Oracle.
    Units: 48 engineer, 14 musketeer, 1 destroyer, 14 transport, 4 dip, 4 spy, 6 vans, 2 explorer.

    Celts(5): Enthusiastic, Peace, 848g. 10 cities. 29 techs. Res: Banking.
    Sioux(4): Enthusiastic, Peace, 1209g. 10 cities. 46 techs. Res: Communism.
     
  10. Inkerman

    Inkerman Engineer Civ2 GOTM Staff

    Joined:
    Jan 14, 2011
    Messages:
    447
    Location:
    London
    We have logs from Major Advantage, Jokemaster, lasingularidad, Inkerman. We know catalin72 has played early in the life of the game, and grigor continues late in the life of the game, and will no doubt contribute here in due course.

    And a welcome from me too to lasingularidad.

    Jokemaster has commented that the game setting will mean similarities in all the starts. It is a particularly interesting comparison game with chance playing so little a role.

    Here are summary comparisons from the logs.

    Code:
    1AD               Cities     Techs       Wonders
    Major Adv           29        15            4 
    Jokemaster          28        12            3
    Inkerman            20        13            4
    lasingular          23        12            3
    
    500AD             Cities     Techs       Wonders
    Major Adv           53        26            5 
    Jokemaster          51        21            5
    Inkerman            31        23            6
    lasingular          37        22            5
    
    1000AD            Cities     Techs       Wonders
    Major Adv          112        39            6 
    Jokemaster          73        32            6
    Inkerman            42        37           10
     
    1250AD            Cities     Techs       Wonders
    Major Adv          168        67           16 
    Jokemaster         118        53           10
    Inkerman            55        62           16
     
     
  11. Jokemaster

    Jokemaster Insert something here

    Joined:
    Nov 15, 2010
    Messages:
    524
    Last part of my log, foreal this time. Extended deadline was yesterday. Be warned: end dates will be revealed.

    Spoiler :
    1260 AD: Fundamentalism > Railroads. Carlisle dye (d) to Cardiff: 804g. Norwich copper (d) to Tintagel: 652g. Lisbonne salt (nd) to Tintagel: 262g. Hastings II spice (nd) to Tintagel: 314g. Birmingham salt (nd) to Cunaxa: 43g. T7L3S0. I swear to God, if that box isn’t full… Subvert Armagh for 708*2g, get 100g+60 from Granary sale.

    1270 AD: HG is Cancelled as Railroads > Industrialization. Canterbury Isaac Newton’s. Gloucester copper (d) to Tintagel: 251g. Oof… Issos spice (nd) to Tintagel: 140g. T1L3S6. Caerphilly subverted for 615*2g, get 84+60 back. Reading III built.
    Interturn: Celts develop Bridge Building.

    1280 AD: Industrialization > The Corporation. Canterbury 198 beakers. York Darwin’s, The Corporation > Genetic Engineering > Electronics. Reading wine (d) to Cardiff: 420g. Domestic delivery for 32g. Brighton starts CfC, Van sent inside. T7L3S0.

    1290 AD: Domestic delivery for 120g, 248g. Liverpool copper (d) to Cardiff: 600g. Newcastle wine (d) to Cardiff: 700g. Undemanded foreign deliveries for 374, 284, 274g. Three Forks subverted for 822*2g. 62+60g plundered.

    1300 AD: Civil disorder somewhere… scary scary! Electronics > Refining. Is if Refining or Combustion that skyrockets oil supply? (Postgame edit: Apparently it’s Combustion.) Foreign undemanded deliveries for 208g, 226g, 266g, 268g. (AKA Tintagel deliveries. If only it was the Colossus city.) Carlisle silk (d) to Carmathen: 1170g, unblocks dye. Salamis dye (d) to Carmathen: 640g. Domestic undemanded deliveries for 49, 60g. Buy CfC for 2,2k gold. Richmond III built. Exeter III built.

    1310 AD: Brighton Cfc, some cities start to celebrate again at 30% luxuries. Damnit, box wasn’t full… back up to 49 freight, I shouldn’t be stingy with vans now that my railroad network is starting to come online. Subvert a revolting Cedar Creek for 563*2g, get 68g and the GL. Cambridge III built. Gloucester III built. Domestic delivery for 300g. Manchester III built.

    1320 AD: Refining > Steel. Foreign undemanded deliveries for 304, 324, 344g, 288g. Bristol III built. Melbourne wine (d) to Cardiff: 500g. Londres II copper (d) to Tintagel: 472g. Demanded local deliveries for 317g, 302g. Capoue wine (d) to Cardiff: 935g. Cork subverted for 1248*2g, 180+60g plundered. I need the UN to declare war on someone.

    1330 AD: Steel > Communism. I can stomach the happiness loss and I need the UN to wage one war on both civs. 50% of the time, it works everytime. Coventry silk (d) to Tintagel: 852g. Portsmouth silk (d) to Tintagel: 816g. Cunaxa silk (d) to Tintagel: 696g. Undemanded foreign deliveries for 2XX, 274, 172. Norwich gold (d) to Caerphilly: 570g. Leicester III built.

    1340 AD: Communism > Espionage. Toronto beads (d) to Slim Buttes: 588g. Milan gems (d) to Wounded Knee: 407g. Oxford II silk (d) to Tintagel: 468g. Carlisle III built. Undemanded deliveries for 207, 308, 222, 272, 230, 274, 290, 166, 316, 294. Rush the UN and the Hoover Dam for 1k, the SoL for 1.5k. MGE diplomacy is the weirdest thing. Hambourg gems (d) to Carlisle: 518g.

    Interturn: THERE WE GO! Celtic sneak attack! My Cavalry survives, of course. No clear path to Cardiff… gonna take a while.

    1350 AD: Leicester II riots. Espionage > Machinery. Norwich Hoover Dam, Nottingham Statue of Liberty, London United Nations. Salzbourg spice (d) to Bear Paw: 750g. Brighton dye (d) to Killdeer: 424g. 2 Celtic units killed. Pise silk (d) to Salamis: 402g. Norwich gems (d) to Leeds II: 308g. Ipswich III built. Milan wine (d) to Carmathen: 885g. Undemanded deliveries for 312, 244, 225g. Women’s Suffrage bought for 2,3k. Portsmouth III built. Domestic delivery for 302g, 320g.

    Interturn: Sioux develop Invention, abandon Sun Tzu’s. Celts lose a unit attacking me.

    1360 AD: Cunaxa Women’s Suffrage. Machinery > Miniaturization. Ipswich wine (d) to Carmathen: 1025g. Bergen gems (d) to Killdeer: 534g. Ghent silver (d) to Little Bighorn: 425g. Newcastle II dye (d) to Wounded Knee: 314g. Coventry II silk (d) to Tintagel: 1206g. Sydney salt (nd) to Tintagel: 284g. Subvert Big Mound for 220*2g, get 43 back. Senate denies a sneak attack on Sioux.

    1370 AD: Ok, it’s Combustion that triggers the oil demand, darnit. Miniaturization > Combustion. Undemanded foreign deliveries for 182, 372, 226, 446, 320, 284g, 172, 314, 220, 280g. Bergen wine (d) to Carmathen: 620g. Kill 2 units in Cardiff. T6L4S0. Found the Celtic city of Iona. Buy Shakes for 1k. Berwick III built. Naples III built. Issos III built.
    Interturn: 1 Celtic unit killed.

    1380 AD: Combustion > Automobile. Nottingham Shakes. Exeter hides (d) to Tintagel: 612g. Manchester II hides (d) to Tintagel: 400g. Salamis silk (d) to Tintagel: 900g. Gênes gold (d) to Armagh: 582g. Richmond wine (d) to Carmathen: 680g. Undemanded deliveries for 198, 406, 282, 272, 180. Rush all unbuilt WoW for about 4.5k. I’ll finish next turn because stuff’s BORING. Inb4 not enough cash to bribe everything, I’m at 2k. You know what, I’ll wait another turn to be 100% sure. Kill last unit in Cardiff, but I won’t conquer this turn because I still want full arrows in Tintagel. Deactivate the scientist in Berwick because it would trigger Automobile, and I don’t want any pollution to ruin my score. Cunaxa III built. Cremona III built. Cannae III built. Capoue III built. Turin III built. Gênes III built.
    INterturn: 1 Celt unit killed.

    1390 AD: Brighton Eiffel Tower, Liverpool Sun Tzu, Newcastle GW, Coventry Oracle. Sneak attack successful against Sioux! Kill 2 Archers. That saves me an extra turn. Exeter hides (d) to Tintagel: 612g. Toronto silk (d) to Tintagel: 924g. Undemanded deliveries for 288, 216, 258, 238, 310. 8k should be enough. Kill Archer in Cardiff: Cardiff seized for Colossus, KRC + 216g. Rhymney seized for 130g. Senate maintains action against Celts. Kells bribed for 537g, get 130 back. Tintagel bribed for 567g, get 123 back. Carmathen bribed for 527g, get 99 back. Senate backs me again, Iona bribed for 185g. Get 30 back, CELTIC CIVILIZATION DESTROYED BY ENGLISH. Slim Buttes taken for 90g, Senate backs me a third time. Bribe Stony Lake for 165g, Bear Paw for 138g, and Killdeer for 308g. SIOUX CIVILIZATION DESTROYED BY ENGLISH. Game, set, nowhere near the bronze medal! At least it’s over with. T0L10S0. Crête III built. Vérone III built. Salamis III built. Lisbonne III built. Hambourg III built. Prague III built. Salzbourg III built. Bergen III built. Venise III built. Milan III built. Ghent III built. Pise III built. Dublin III built. Toronto III built. Melbourne III built. Sydney III built. Londres IV built. York IV built. Nottingham IV built. Hastings IV built. Canterbury IV built. Coventry IV built. Warwick IV built. Newcastle IV built. Oxford IV built. Liverpool IV built. Douvres IV built. Brighton IV built. Norwich IV built. Leeds IV built. Reading IV built. Birmingham IV built. Richmond IV built. Exeter IV built. Cambridge IV built. Manchester IV built. Situations like these are exactly why CfC is a really good wonder. ENTER… but first, let me take a recap.

    STATUS AT 1390 AD: (189th turn)
    Cities: 181 (many of those cities sub size-12… rip RL time) Techs: 66 (currently researching Automobile. Didn't want to finish it bc scared of pollution squares) Government: Democracy
    WoW: Pyramids, HG, Colossus, Marco, Lighthouse, GL, Oracle, Great Wall, Sun Tzu’s, KRC, Mikes, Adam Smith’s, Shakes, Magellan’s, Leo’s, JS Bach’s, Cope’s, Isaac Newton’s, Darwin’s, SoL, Eiffel Tower, Suffrage, Hoover Dam, UN, CfC.

    Total score is honestly pretty bad, I coulda had a much higher GOTM score if I wanted. But my homeland wasn’t exactly bountiful, so I was unable to support many Engineers unlike in GOTM 124 where I finished 30 turns later with almost
    Spoiler :
    triple
    my current Civ score.

     
  12. Major Advantage

    Major Advantage Chieftain

    Joined:
    Mar 21, 2011
    Messages:
    504
    Location:
    Germany
    My game was a little more ... hmmm ... pointy. ;)
    I was at least as happy as you when the game was finally over! Each turn took about 2 hours in the end, I was growing impatient, but having gone this far, I wanted to get it though focused and not ruin it by sloppiness.

    There was nothing spectacular in the end, just more cities, more trade, spaceship, even more cities, even more trade, no more cities then since, for the first time ever, I ran into the max-number-of-cities-limit. I bribed some more in the final turn for score.

    This is what the log says:

    1260 Flight->Radio->Adv. flight; Regina, Red Rock, Green Rock, Adelaide, Queenstown founded; 1044, 652, 77, 180, 182, 165, 112, 825, 327, 170, 270
    1270 Adv. Flight->Rocket->Space; Alberta founded; 420, 1254, 21, 247, 165, 163, 84, 115, 202, 528, 214
    1280 Space->Plastics; Canberra, Dreiviertelmond, Marseille founded; 232, 467, 82, 296, 496, 720, 257, 138, 383
    1290 Plastics->Supercond.; Apollo built; Peninsula founded; 570, 620, 576, 286, 580, 336, 432, 388, 830
    (Sioux build Eiffeltower)
    1300 Supercond.->Recycling(To help against pollution, won't have the ship ready next turn anyway); ship 9-2-2-0-0-0; Empty Spot, Alice Springs founded; 574, 331, 424, 530, 217, 375, 218, 184, 360, 52, 464, 512, 1236, 360, 147
    1310 Recyc.->Environment; Ship 11-5-4-2-1-1; Brisbane, Madras founded; 1116, 360, 371, 699, 210, 492, 375, 282
    (Sioux steel plastics and spaceflight, we don't care, Cardiff builds first structure)
    1320 Env.->Fusion->FT1; 25-6-6-3-2-2; Yellow Rock founded; 459, 336, 980, 831, 747, 360, 434, 576, 344, 458
    1330 FT1->FT2->FT3; 32-8-7-4-3-3; Wickwick, Antwerpen, Sapua, South Pole1, Nassau, Köln founded; 1332, 440, 350, 211, 270, 267, 1170, 392, 1020, 432, 457, 367, 402
    1340 FT3->FT4->FT5; Full spaceship launched; Coimbra founded, 287, 728, 462, 127, 564, 225, 435, 266, 294, 165, 312, 267, 181, 387
    1341 FT5->FT6->FT7; Buenos Aires, West Canada, East Canda, Perth founded; 720, 232, 490, 437, 470, 628, 344, 346, 322, 294, 512, 119, 395, 436, 135, 414, 298, 208, 162, 384, 318, 787
    1342 FT7->FT8->FT9; Victoria, Whales, Mailand, Lübeck, Erfurt, Florenz, Subdublin, Culpepper, Rotterdam founded; 170, 362, 576, 260, 296, 616, 498, 200, 322, 247, 540, 700, 412, 272, 176, 522, 612, 347, 244; Double Science
    1343 FT9->FT10->FT11->FT12; Whitehorse, Kansas City, Rosario, Monaco, Calcutta founded; 292, 456, 894, 996, 1152, 443, 136, 170, 371, 272, 175, 163
    1344 FT12->FT13->FT14->FT15; Alaska, Yukon, Fitzroy, Waddington founded; 37, 129, 548, 288, 268, 327, 448, 584, 300, 377, 993, 302, 1077, 267, 186, 292, 334, 444, 896, 360
    1345 FT15->FT16->FT17->FT18; Kunaxa, Stuttgart, Maine, Rostock founded; 252, 714, 297, 254, 314, 606, 184, 656, 236, 566, 312, 37, 124, 650, 800, 384, 775, 396, 266, 350 AARGS! Game crashed while I was moving vans around!
    1346 FT18->FT19->FT20->FT21; Sun Tzu, SoL built; Blackhorse, Rom, Springfield, Oakland, Ramsgate, Greenhorse, Stonehenge, Blue Rock founded; 152, 160, 584, 318, 624, 488, 522, 507, 54, 144, 440, 350, 286, 592, 747, 456, 787, 192, 403, 539, 246, 732
    1347 FT21->FT22->FT23->FT24; Cleveland, Dresden, Atlanta, Dortmund, Northwest founded; 1161, 575, 430, 1086, 245, 768, 728, 656, 660, 734, 365, 552, 775, 410, 91, 450, 304, 377, 256, 275, 119, 46
    1348 FT24->FT25->FT26->FT27; Schwerin, Kamloops, Gaspe, Görlitz, Alert, South Rock founded; 374, 15, 42, 792, 544, 356, 506, 704, 37, 480, 195, 632, 540, 200, 20, 240, 738, 438, 76, 300, 576, 420, 350, 554, 491, 195, 155, 222, 752
    1349 FT27->FT28->FT29->FT30; Nome, Iowa founded, and we have reached maximum number of cities!!; 95, 425, 100, 185, 270, 185, 422, 218, 440, 180, 222, 149, 385, 792, 212, 495, 208, 354, 220, 640, 230, 308, 810, 370, 924, 332, 492, 278, 266, 159, 116, 161, 476, 104, 146, 220, 195, 651, 163, 768, 303, 146, 422, 410, 420, 486, 380, 427, 539, 366, 275, 672, 184, 312, 192, 285, 710, 128, 222, 314, 654, 560, 726, 354, 514, 904, 691, 492, 566, 960
    (Both celts + Sioux steal fusion, we don't care)
    1350 FT30->FT31->Communism(!)->FT32 ;WS, Manhattan, Oracle, UN (+plenty of courthouses) built; 136, 952, 220, 219, 222, 252, 250, 195, 310, 216, 486, 408, 464, 480, 176, 775, 332, 644, 472, 437, 440, 278, 542, 438, 185, 654, 282, 243, 392, 443, 252, 544, 252, 763, 427, 167, 603, 282, 619, 310, 196, 623, 316, 563, 252; now 31k gold in the vault, let's see how far it will get us: Subvert Cedar Creek (2*3588; 215 + GL), Slim Butts (2*2504; 115+Eiffel), Killdeer (2*1764; 75), Bear Paw (2*1686; 67), Wounded Knee (2*1620; 122), out of dips; more deliveries for 198, 756, 1086, 1086, 143, 100
    1351 Mission accomplished! Too bad we got -30 points for pollution...
    Spoiler :
    still 644% though
     
  13. Inkerman

    Inkerman Engineer Civ2 GOTM Staff

    Joined:
    Jan 14, 2011
    Messages:
    447
    Location:
    London
    Hi to Jokemaster and Major Advantage and thanks for your recent posts on how your games ended up.

    Impressive: I went a similar approach to a big game with a late landing, also hitting the city limit for my first time, and also finding a big sense of relief at the end. But I did introduce sloppiness. I needed to save time and the usual routines had to be compromised (and so too the usual logging.) My game went on quite a bit longer (not surprising as the earlier comparison for AD1250 show me with less than half as many cities as JM and MA.) The landing was in 1694.

    It may be a blue badge I suppose.

    In the UK a blue badge is disabled parking. I did find this game pretty wearing, but not quite in that way.

    My notes say if I ever do this sort of game again I will try and be more structured with my city names, calling everything in the home continent beginning with "A" for example.
     
  14. Jokemaster

    Jokemaster Insert something here

    Joined:
    Nov 15, 2010
    Messages:
    524
    Yeah, I started adding the continent number after every city name (so New York6 instead of New York, and Paris22 instead of Paris)

    Might save quite a lot of time for lategame trading.
     
  15. grigor

    grigor Chieftain

    Joined:
    Sep 27, 2001
    Messages:
    353
    Finally finished!

    I built directly on the Oil, with no real downside.
    I can't post a log for a few weeks, but the details are:

    Monarchy in 2250BC
    2000bc: 4 cities, 1 settler, 4 warriors
    Trade in 1050bc
    Went for Pyramids first, in 825bc
    500AD status: 15 cities, 4 settlers, 4 vans. 10 techs, researching Writing
    HG in 425
    Republic in 225bc (suffering mighty!)

    somewhere in here Colossus
    Marco 150bc
    1AD Status: 26C, 8 Sett gov: Republic at 40%Lux. 1 boat, 5 in prod, 8 vans. 4 in prod
    19 techs res Mono HG, MPE, Pyr, Colossus

    LH 60AD
    MC 140AD
    I played this phase very energetically.
    Demo 380AD
    500AD Status: 48C, 15S, (28 in prod) 9 Trireme, 9 Vans (5 in prod)
    2 trade routes with Coventry (size 12) HG, Pyr, Colossus, MPE, LH, MC, Leo
    27 Techs res Univ. Trade routes: F6, D8

    Status at 1000AD:70C, 34 Eng (16 in Prod). 24 Vans (37 in Prod). 16 Galleon.
    40 techs res Steam.

    I finished with over 200 cities, but not as fast as Major.
     
  16. Jokemaster

    Jokemaster Insert something here

    Joined:
    Nov 15, 2010
    Messages:
    524
    Yeah, too much glut with only one real trading partner kinda killed my game, not enough expansion: rip.
    Playing a different map for fun, I'm running out of vans maintaining 2 shipchains around the Railroad era! Gotta calibrate spending priorities between expansion, vans and sewers/mkts when you start WLTPDing.

    My only wish is that you'd be advised when the 16-turn cycle triggers and a city gets a new commodity to trade. (Firaxis civ2remake pls) Is there a practical way to find out that doesn't involve conquering every single one of them?

    Side note: Is the green star calculated by date or by game turn? Technically, Major landed earlier than I conquered, but since turns swap to 1year increments after launch he actually played six more turns than me before the game ended. Is that specified somewhere in the GOTM rules?
     
  17. Major Advantage

    Major Advantage Chieftain

    Joined:
    Mar 21, 2011
    Messages:
    504
    Location:
    Germany
    I am pretty sure that the crucial number is the turns played and not the end date.
     
  18. Ali Ardavan

    Ali Ardavan Mathematician Moderator Civ2 GOTM Staff

    Joined:
    May 29, 2002
    Messages:
    2,930
    Location:
    Michigan, USA
    I started this past weekend on this one. Like Major, I gave up quickly on OCC after looking at the starting conditions and doing a quick map analysis. Also in a world this big my rivals were likely on a different continent far away making trade very difficult. On the other hand, restarts off and only 2 rivals could be a quick conquest; so I chose that.

    Like some, I built a warrior first and 2 size 1 settlers next. Somehow my second and third cities were built later than any of the reported players here. My expansion was also slow and looking at the logs my city count was consistently last. Makes me wonder why, as huts and barbarians were no factor in this game.

    I played till mid +200s last night. Have 2 barracks, 2 diplomats, one vet crusader waiting, and two more in production. Will attack Sioux before +500. Plan to conquer them despite them being my key civ. I have all the techs I need for an early conquest already. At this point I am planning on continuing west and attacking Celts from there.
     
  19. Ali Ardavan

    Ali Ardavan Mathematician Moderator Civ2 GOTM Staff

    Joined:
    May 29, 2002
    Messages:
    2,930
    Location:
    Michigan, USA
    Date Notes

    -4000 Moved to unshielded grass.
    -3950 London founded. Warrior started.
    -3900 -> Alphabet.
    -3800 Warrior produced. Settler started. Still no purple capital.
    -3650 Resource seed is 18. Rivals are Celts and Sioux.
    -3350 Alphabet -> Code of Laws.
    -3250 Size 1 settler produced.
    -2750 Code of Laws -> Burial.
    -2350 Second size 1 settler produced. York founded in the west with access to whale.
    -2250 Nottingham founded in the north with access to oasis and wheat.
    -2050 Burial -> Monarchy.

    Status at -2000
    Population: 0.03M; Cities: 3; Techs: 3; Government: Despotism
    Gold: 9; Cost: 0; Trade routes: 0D0F;
    Wonders:
    Units: 3 warriors
    Goals: Expansion, Monarchy, Trade, Marco
    Celtic: no contact
    Sioux: no contact

    -1650 Monarchy -> Bronze. Monarchy established. T3L0S7
    -1500 Hastings founded.
    -1400 Canterbury founded.
    -1150 Bronze -> Currency. Coventry founded.
    -1050 Warwick founded.

    Status at -1000
    Population: 0.11M; Cities: 7; Techs: 5; Government: Monarchy
    Gold: 4; Cost: 0; Trade routes: 0D0F;
    Wonders:
    Units: 1 settler, 4 warriors
    Goals: Expansion, Trade, Marco
    Celtic: no contact
    Sioux: no contact

    -0925 Currency -> Trade.
    -0850 Newcastle founded.
    -0800 Oxford founded.
    -0725 Trade -> Mapmaking. T7L0S3
    -0650 Liverpool founded.
    -0575 Dover founded.
    -0525 T3L0S7

    Status at -0500
    Population: 0.3M; Cities: 11; Techs: 7; Government: Monarchy
    Gold: 14; Cost: 0; Trade routes: 0D0F;
    Wonders:
    Units: 6 settlers, 7 warriors, 3 vans
    Goals: Expansion, Marco
    Celtic: no contact
    Sioux: no contact

    -0475 Mapmaking -> Writing. Brighton founded.
    -0450 Norwich founded.
    -0400 Marco built. Celts have no techs I do not already have; Sioux have 4. Will wait for Writing to be discovered. Leeds founded.
    -0350 Writing -> Literacy.
    Writing, peace -> Celts (5) -> Masonry, maps
    Writing, peace, Trade, Monarchy, Currency -> Sioux (4) -> Pottery, Math, Horseback riding, maps.
    -0275 Reading founded. Birmingham founded at 75,67 with access to whale, fish, wheat, and buffalo; if I were to have a science city, this would be it. Diplomat lands on island 19.
    -0250 Richmond founded.
    -0200 Shush founded on island 19.
    -0150 Pyramids built; rivals switch to Hanging Gardens and Colossus. Literacy -> Polytheism. Cambridge founded.
    -0125 Gloucester founded.
    -0075 Kish founded on island 16.
    -0025 Literacy -> Sioux (4) -> Mysticism, maps.

    Status at +1
    Population: 0.66M; Cities: 21; Techs: 15; Government: Monarchy
    Gold: 0; Cost: 0; Trade routes: 0D0F;
    Wonders: Pyramids, Marco
    Units: 5 settlers, 24 warriors, 2 triremes, 2 diplomats, 6 vans
    Footprint: 19 cities on homeland; 1 in each of 16, 19.
    Goals: Trade with Sioux (one boat is on its way), Hanging Gardens (4 turns), Monotheism, Lighthouse?, Republic?
    Celtic: 8 cities, 11 techs
    Sioux: 4 cities, 14 techs
     
  20. Inkerman

    Inkerman Engineer Civ2 GOTM Staff

    Joined:
    Jan 14, 2011
    Messages:
    447
    Location:
    London
    Yes, the green star award is for fewest turns.
     

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