GOTM 26 Spoiler I - End of Ancient Age, Full Map of Starting Continent.
- Thread starter ainwood
- Start date
SirPleb
Shaken, not stirred.
Yup, I figured that too. And it turned out to be even worse - as civ_steve and TedJackson have reported, the Shanghai region turned out to be completely corrupt from the very start.Originally posted by ainwood
How much corruption (%age-wise) did Shanghai have pre-palace-jump? My concern was that a city that far away would have >50% and get worse with every new city in the main core.
It was interesting how much could be accomplished with a good food supply in a totally corrupt region. In 1400BC, the last turn before I jumped the Palace, my southern region looked like this:
Without any help from the north, the region had grown to 5 towns, three at size one, one was size two, and one was size six. It had also produced two warriors. Its single industrious worker had cleared a couple of forests and had made good progress irrigating tiles and joining towns. But hadn't mined anything yet.
In the next turn, when the Palace jumped to Shanghai, production and income in that region instanly blossomed and it became a nice addition to the empire. It was hemmed in and would be a long time before it could grow much more, but five additional productive towns are a nice boost to have up and running so early
SirPleb
Shaken, not stirred.
Addendum to my previous post, I should have mentioned this:
This development of the southern region isn't free, it came at some cost incurred by the northern region. The northern region incurred a cost of 230 shields to build the Forbidden Palace as a top priority. (200 shields for the FP, plus 3 workers at 10 shields each built elsewhere and joined to the FP town to increase its build speed.) That production could have been used to expand faster and/or to build other things. And it sacrificed the possible use of the southern settler + worker who might have walked up there and joined the northern region.
I think the early Palace jump resulting in two productive regions at 1375BC was well worth the cost, I'm quite happy with it But just wanted to clarify that it wasn't free, there is a trade-off against development in the northern region.
This development of the southern region isn't free, it came at some cost incurred by the northern region. The northern region incurred a cost of 230 shields to build the Forbidden Palace as a top priority. (200 shields for the FP, plus 3 workers at 10 shields each built elsewhere and joined to the FP town to increase its build speed.) That production could have been used to expand faster and/or to build other things. And it sacrificed the possible use of the southern settler + worker who might have walked up there and joined the northern region.
I think the early Palace jump resulting in two productive regions at 1375BC was well worth the cost, I'm quite happy with it
But just wanted to clarify that it wasn't free, there is a trade-off against development in the northern region.
denyd
Emperor
Question for SirPlieb: My initial decisions were similar to yours, but instead of building the FP in the north, I produced settlers in that second city and used my first GL (acquired in 1200 BC during a war with Korea) to build the FP in Shanghai. I realize you can't always count on getting a GL, but do you feel that was a better option for expansion in the north than what you chose?
For Ainwood: Until the FP in Shanghai, my southern core of 3 cities was completly corrupt was only able to produce a temple, 2 warriors and 2 settlers in the pre-FP era. (thanks in part to the 3 chests).
For Ainwood: Until the FP in Shanghai, my southern core of 3 cities was completly corrupt was only able to produce a temple, 2 warriors and 2 settlers in the pre-FP era. (thanks in part to the 3 chests).
- Joined
- Oct 5, 2001
- Messages
- 30,080
Interesting point denyd: Why did you choose the city with the chests as being your non-capital?
I used my chests to rush a granary and get my settler factory moving. However, thinking on your option, it might have worked quite-well to speed a settler or two in the corrupt city.
I was more focused on the long march though....
I used my chests to rush a granary and get my settler factory moving. However, thinking on your option, it might have worked quite-well to speed a settler or two in the corrupt city.
I was more focused on the long march though....
denyd
Emperor
Ainwood,
My thoughts were that the southern city would be able to grow (river & grassland visible), but might have trouble generating shields to complete the settlers, so by using 2 of the chests for a temple, I'd be able expand culture wise (to get the cow available) and the third chest & a couple of chops to get the settlers I was able to grab some land. Now that the FP is there, I'll probably be able to plant 2-3 other cities and all should be quite productive.
Also of note, once I found the double cow to the north, I switched to that city for settlers and used Beijing for military production.
My thoughts were that the southern city would be able to grow (river & grassland visible), but might have trouble generating shields to complete the settlers, so by using 2 of the chests for a temple, I'd be able expand culture wise (to get the cow available) and the third chest & a couple of chops to get the settlers I was able to grab some land. Now that the FP is there, I'll probably be able to plant 2-3 other cities and all should be quite productive.
Also of note, once I found the double cow to the north, I switched to that city for settlers and used Beijing for military production.
SirPleb
Shaken, not stirred.
A leader is certainly the best way to get the two regions going - the effort invested in building FP in the north can be saved and the original Palace town doesn't need to be abandoned. But there were a number of factors which motivated me to go for a Palace jump instead:
1. The risk you mention, that you can't always count on getting a GL. I feel safe to count on getting one eventually, but eventually can be quite a long time when attacking with a small force. And a small force is all I can see having in the early game. With a jump approach I'd be sure of getting the second productive region going quickly without risk.
2. The risk of attacking deity level opponents. I'm not comfortable attacking deity AIs until I know enough about them to be sure I'll succeed. Especially so on a customized map where their strengths are even harder to predict. This is another area of risk which I preferred to avoid since a safe alternative existed.
3. Since I'm going for a spaceship win, I'll want to have some research partners for a fair bit of the game. I don't want to weaken any opponent early in the game - I want to assess them all before deciding which ones to hurt and which ones to nurture
So, although going for a leader can have a better result, I'm happy with the approach I took.
I'm impressed with your development of the 2nd site, SirPleb! I had gotten 3 cities in this area, but chose to gift 1 to Mahatma rather than lose it in combat, so there are only 2 cities in this area right now.
I've checked the F3 screen, and once I'd done my big Swordsman upgrade I rated as Strong against everyone except 1 which I was average against. That, along with the ability to use Techs to form alliances made me feel fairly confident to start taking on my nearby neighbors. And my army is actually a bit too big for becoming Republic right now, so a good series of Wars should help the cost of supporting the army.
I'd originally thought about doing a Palace Jump, but the original Palace location is so powerful, and central to my Northern holdings that any movement to an adjoining FP would bias me against one of my neighbors (I've got to take HIM out, or my FP isn't central) and bring in less desireable lands (Tundra to the North, Sea/Lakes to the East/West and Jungle to the SouthEast.) I'm depending on my militaristic attribute to generate a GL for the FP, or just build it on a Border city and take the time.
I've pretty much chosen the civs that I will use to aid my research, and how they're going to aid me, so I feel fine about taking out convenient civs to further my empire.
I've checked the F3 screen, and once I'd done my big Swordsman upgrade I rated as Strong against everyone except 1 which I was average against. That, along with the ability to use Techs to form alliances made me feel fairly confident to start taking on my nearby neighbors. And my army is actually a bit too big for becoming Republic right now, so a good series of Wars should help the cost of supporting the army.
I'd originally thought about doing a Palace Jump, but the original Palace location is so powerful, and central to my Northern holdings that any movement to an adjoining FP would bias me against one of my neighbors (I've got to take HIM out, or my FP isn't central) and bring in less desireable lands (Tundra to the North, Sea/Lakes to the East/West and Jungle to the SouthEast.) I'm depending on my militaristic attribute to generate a GL for the FP, or just build it on a Border city and take the time.
I've pretty much chosen the civs that I will use to aid my research, and how they're going to aid me, so I feel fine about taking out convenient civs to further my empire.
Justus II
General Staff
Originally posted by ainwood
Interesting point denyd: Why did you choose the city with the chests as being your non-capital?
I used my chests to rush a granary and get my settler factory moving. However, thinking on your option, it might have worked quite-well to speed a settler or two in the corrupt city.
I also put the chests in the south, for the purpose of hurrying settlers. Based on the game announcement, with no food bonuses, I assumed that based on 20 turns for a town to grow to pop 3, it would generate 20 shields (with full corruption), so one chest would finish off a settler every 20 turns. Counting on a forest chop, I could get 4 done by 1000BC. As it turned out, with all the food bonuses, I was able to get 5 cities as well as pop-rushing a couple temples in the south by then, and 4 workers, two of which merged in for the palace jump.
My strategy was similar in that respect to SirPleb's (a good sign!), in that I wanted to do the palace jump south (of course, mine was about 300 years later than his!). I had a couple of other builds before starting my FP in the north. I am still not sure if the chests would have given me a higher payoff in the north, but I was happy with the result. By the time of my jump, I had the 5 cities in the south, and most of the tiles improved, ready for the productivity to kick in. My biggest mistake from this respect was, knowing I wanted to do the jump, I settled my northern cities in an RCP centered on my initial capital, not the FP city!
While it may have helped early, it left my cities less then optimally situated after the jump!
grahamiam
In debt to Mr. Geisel
Is it better to conquer the scientific civ's or cuddle them along with the spacerace goal? I severely weakened the Koreans early on thinking this would be one less civ that can use the tech slingshot against me but now I read how others trying to "speed up" the tech race.
For a mistake filled player like me, the Diety tech speed is very intimidating. However, I'm thinking that maybe I should have waited till the middle ages to hurt them and instead focused on the Mongols / Khazars.
Also, what are the traits for the Baekje? I eliminated them very early in GOTM24 and didn't notice which tech's they started with. Also, do they have a UU?
Thanks,
grahamiam
For a mistake filled player like me, the Diety tech speed is very intimidating. However, I'm thinking that maybe I should have waited till the middle ages to hurt them and instead focused on the Mongols / Khazars.
Also, what are the traits for the Baekje? I eliminated them very early in GOTM24 and didn't notice which tech's they started with. Also, do they have a UU?
Thanks,
grahamiam
I believe the Baekje, based on Gotm24 spoiler information, came out as Commercial and Religious; that would correspond with my experience in Gotm26, as well. I've never seen their UU.
You'd expect the Scientific civs to be the better researchers, so it would seem to be beneficial to cuddle them along and take advantage of that research capability; this would be the best method to speed research along as fast as possible, and get a quick SpaceShip launch. If I do attack the Koreans (or any other Scientific civ) early, I plan to keep at least one city alive so I can take advantage of the free Tech they get at the beginning of each era.
You'd expect the Scientific civs to be the better researchers, so it would seem to be beneficial to cuddle them along and take advantage of that research capability; this would be the best method to speed research along as fast as possible, and get a quick SpaceShip launch. If I do attack the Koreans (or any other Scientific civ) early, I plan to keep at least one city alive so I can take advantage of the free Tech they get at the beginning of each era.
denyd
Emperor
My concerns are that there will be two scientific AI and when the jump to MA or IA happens they'll get different techs and swap them. Imagine this you're even with the AI on one turn and the next your down Steam Power, Nationalism & Medicine 
Of course if you control most of the world at that point, trading luxs & $$ (or even through extortion) you can get a quick slingshot into a new age.
Of course if you control most of the world at that point, trading luxs & $$ (or even through extortion) you can get a quick slingshot into a new age.
SirPleb
Shaken, not stirred.
It sounds like you've covered all the issues, it will just be a matter of timing now, depends on how quickly you get your leader - good luck!
My philosophy on this is firmly in the second part, getting a quick slingshot. It seems to me that the best thing which can happen is that the scientific Civs get different techs and swap them to reduce their trade value. My favorite way to pick up the techs they get is via an optional tech from the prior era. That often works with Republic - if you have an exclusive on Republic and the AIs devalue the early Middle Ages by swapping them you can often get into the Middle Ages quickly. Similar opportunities are harder in later ages. Sometimes I find it best to get just one new era tech, then research one a level past that one, then trade the new one for the remaining first level ones known to the AIs. As long as you aren't behind in tech at the time the scientific Civs enter a new era there seems to always be a way to get their techs
CdB
Warlord
Open civ3
Deity Game I need to be extra careful. I will check for all civs at all turns to check for deals and workers in order not to miss some. So it is going to be tedious, long but maybe a win ?
As many, I picked the Dyes start and move my capital twice, produce 3 Warriors and Granary (with the 3 treasuries) and then continuous settlers. I manage my first decent settler factory thus I have a decent core at RCP 5 and some towns at RCP 8 by the 1000 BC. Other cities were producing Warriors and occasional Worker. Only infrastructure were barracks. The South core is mainly working rushing some settlers, cats and barracks / walls. I should have rushed a temple but did not. In retrospect not very clever.
Tech Path
I start the research at 100% on Terra Cota to deal it and then made a successful gambit at 10% on Maths and failed the second gambit at 10% on Currency. But I am still among the tech leaders and first on the ranking. Very unusual for me even for Emperor Game, so I am quite please
Baekje are the techs leader building the GL in 17 turns (must be a rep-build or a GL). They will be a good target but I will need to protect the south for this.
I have build also a decent treasury of more than 1000 GP that I used to upgrade all my warriors.
Deals and more deals
3750 BC: I met Khazars (Polite) with a frightening SOD of 7 Warriors. Thank to AI, they just wander pass my undefended capital. I had my only warrior up North.
3700 BC: I met Mongols and Korea. It is time for some deals. Mongols have monopoly on Terra Cotta / Korea on Bronze and Khazars on Wheel plus Ceremonial Burial & Alphabet. Korea : Alphabet & Bronze & 33 GP vs Masonry & Warrior Code / Mongols : Ceremonial & Terra Cotta vs Masonry / Khazars : Wheel vs Masonry & TerraCotta. Insane, I net Alphabet / Bronze / Ceremonial / TerraCotta / Wheel plus some GP. I am up 2/3 techs vs AI. I wish they had more GP to deal with.
I continue to meet civs : Gorg by 3550 giving Ceremonial for all their GP, Baekje by 3350, Takeda by 3000 (Thanks to the city they found). I grab 10 GP & 50 GP in two deals with Ceremonial & TerraCotta.
2630 BC: Another round of deals. Everybody is still Polite to me and I am weak to all armies Baekje : Calligraphy vs TerraCotta & Contact with Koreans & Takeda & 155 GP / Takeda : Bajustu vs Masonry & Alphabet & Contacts with Koreans & Khazars / Baekje : 119 GP vs Bajustu / Gorg : 74 GP vs Masonry / Khazars : 75 GP vs Bajustu / Mongols : Raja & 38 GP vs Bajustu. Again I am netting some GP and two more techs. Two settlers are ready (one from my settler factory and one rushing in the South). Also I have embassies to all known countries and near monopoly on Calligraphy and it is going to help me in future deals
2470 BC : Taoist Mysticism in on offer by Baekje & Gorg so Gorg : 39 GP & Taoist Mysticism vs Calligraphy.
2310 BC : Did not check deals last time and Iron is on offer. Exchange to Raja and not to Takeda to keep GL on same continent if needed. Raja : Iron & 17 GP vs Calligraphy
1910 BC : I do not want Mongols to be able to trade Confu since there are some GP around so I broke AI by Mongols : Confucianism & 38 GP vs Math / Raja : 84 GP vs Confucianism. I have still near monopoly on Maths.
1830 BC: I wanted to prevent some cheap deals between the AI so I bring Baekje to the war & 50 GP for Confucianism. This was a very bad deal as the next turn Khazars and Baekje exchange IW and Confucianism and 2 turns later Baekje has MM and it would cost me 442 GP & WM & Maths to get it. If I had kept Confu & IW certainly I could had this techs for a bargain. I will wait for other techs to come to offer.
1575 BC : Civil Service is now there but I can not get it for Math. Raja has Math & Worker & 124 GP. I will buy from Baekje and sell it back to Raja. Baekje : MM vs WM & Math & 10 GPT & 275 GP / Takeda : WM vs Maths & 10 GP / Raja : WM & Civil Service & Wo & 127 GP vs MM & WM / Mongols : WM vs TM / Gorg : WM & 13 GP vs TM / Khazars : TM vs TM / Baekje : WM & 43 GP vs WM. So I have 2 more techs and 823 GP & 17 GPT
1525 BC: Gorg joins the fight vs Koreans giving WM & 37 GP vs Civil Service.
1250 BC : Baekje has contact with the other continent (darn
), it was my only hope to get back in the techs path the cheap way. I should have built a town to build a junk earlier but it was not fitting in my RCP 5 (no comment, please). I will try to rush junk for this with the knowledge of the WM. In order to get the price down, I will grab all information around first. So the deals are : Takeda : WM & 35 GP vs WM / Khazars : WM & 20 GP vs WM / Raja : WM & 5 GP vs WM / Baekje : WM vs WM & 60 GP. I will then sail a suicide junk to other continent thus not paying Baekje for this.
1050 BC : Everybody has construction . Thanks to XXX & Baekje. For the moment I share contacts on the other continent with Baekje. I can grab construction from XXX on the other continent : Construction & 2 contacts on other continent vs Confu & Civil Service & WM & 9 GP. I get all maps and all contacts from the second continent. I even grab the last contact on the second continent and I have the monopoly to it. So I can make the deal Baekje : Lit vs Monopoly contact & 18 GP & WM. I have monopoly on Litt with Baekje.
850 BC : Failed the gambit on currency. Bad news. I buy Shaminism from Other Continent for WM & 10 GPT & 133 GP. Entering in Middle Ages.
Wars
2150 BC : I am weak but Korea is average so it is time to divert some energy from the AI to war. Khazars forces marauding in my territory. I have only 10 Reg warriors. I extort 2 GP from Korea and declare War. I bring Khazars for Taoist and 3 GP.
1830 BC : Bring Baekje to war.
1525 BC : Baekje declare peace. Not good Korean are now strong vs me. I ally Gorg to help the fight
1150 BC: I have 1370 GP in my treasury and I decide to upgrade 17 warriors (even some reg) so that I go to the offensive. I have 4 Horse & 12 Warriors & 17 Swords & 719 GP still
975 BC : I declare war on Mongols so that I do not have to face their UU. I ask Khazars to join my fights vs Korea & Mongols for WM & Literature. The good thing is that Khazars have just declare peace to Korea & are in the Mongols territory = bad rep. Takeda just landed on Korean, they join the fight for WM.
I will declare war to the second continent. I take the strongest contestant and ally all the others to wage war for me for some techs to slow the research
Strategy
I am leading in techs but not the leader and still in despotism with no FP so I need to grab both GL (Leader & Library). I will concentrate on finishing Koreans (with some swords and few horses) and Mongols. But I need to go after the Baekje and ally everybody against them because I would like to protect the south front
Deity Game I need to be extra careful. I will check for all civs at all turns to check for deals and workers in order not to miss some. So it is going to be tedious, long but maybe a win ?
As many, I picked the Dyes start and move my capital twice, produce 3 Warriors and Granary (with the 3 treasuries) and then continuous settlers. I manage my first decent settler factory thus I have a decent core at RCP 5 and some towns at RCP 8 by the 1000 BC. Other cities were producing Warriors and occasional Worker. Only infrastructure were barracks. The South core is mainly working rushing some settlers, cats and barracks / walls. I should have rushed a temple but did not. In retrospect not very clever.
Tech Path
I start the research at 100% on Terra Cota to deal it and then made a successful gambit at 10% on Maths and failed the second gambit at 10% on Currency. But I am still among the tech leaders and first on the ranking. Very unusual for me even for Emperor Game, so I am quite please
Baekje are the techs leader building the GL in 17 turns (must be a rep-build or a GL). They will be a good target but I will need to protect the south for this.
I have build also a decent treasury of more than 1000 GP that I used to upgrade all my warriors.
Deals and more deals
3750 BC: I met Khazars (Polite) with a frightening SOD of 7 Warriors. Thank to AI, they just wander pass my undefended capital. I had my only warrior up North.
3700 BC: I met Mongols and Korea. It is time for some deals. Mongols have monopoly on Terra Cotta / Korea on Bronze and Khazars on Wheel plus Ceremonial Burial & Alphabet. Korea : Alphabet & Bronze & 33 GP vs Masonry & Warrior Code / Mongols : Ceremonial & Terra Cotta vs Masonry / Khazars : Wheel vs Masonry & TerraCotta. Insane, I net Alphabet / Bronze / Ceremonial / TerraCotta / Wheel plus some GP. I am up 2/3 techs vs AI. I wish they had more GP to deal with.
I continue to meet civs : Gorg by 3550 giving Ceremonial for all their GP, Baekje by 3350, Takeda by 3000 (Thanks to the city they found). I grab 10 GP & 50 GP in two deals with Ceremonial & TerraCotta.
2630 BC: Another round of deals. Everybody is still Polite to me and I am weak to all armies Baekje : Calligraphy vs TerraCotta & Contact with Koreans & Takeda & 155 GP / Takeda : Bajustu vs Masonry & Alphabet & Contacts with Koreans & Khazars / Baekje : 119 GP vs Bajustu / Gorg : 74 GP vs Masonry / Khazars : 75 GP vs Bajustu / Mongols : Raja & 38 GP vs Bajustu. Again I am netting some GP and two more techs. Two settlers are ready (one from my settler factory and one rushing in the South). Also I have embassies to all known countries and near monopoly on Calligraphy and it is going to help me in future deals
2470 BC : Taoist Mysticism in on offer by Baekje & Gorg so Gorg : 39 GP & Taoist Mysticism vs Calligraphy.
2310 BC : Did not check deals last time and Iron is on offer. Exchange to Raja and not to Takeda to keep GL on same continent if needed. Raja : Iron & 17 GP vs Calligraphy
1910 BC : I do not want Mongols to be able to trade Confu since there are some GP around so I broke AI by Mongols : Confucianism & 38 GP vs Math / Raja : 84 GP vs Confucianism. I have still near monopoly on Maths.
1830 BC: I wanted to prevent some cheap deals between the AI so I bring Baekje to the war & 50 GP for Confucianism. This was a very bad deal as the next turn Khazars and Baekje exchange IW and Confucianism and 2 turns later Baekje has MM and it would cost me 442 GP & WM & Maths to get it. If I had kept Confu & IW certainly I could had this techs for a bargain. I will wait for other techs to come to offer.
1575 BC : Civil Service is now there but I can not get it for Math. Raja has Math & Worker & 124 GP. I will buy from Baekje and sell it back to Raja. Baekje : MM vs WM & Math & 10 GPT & 275 GP / Takeda : WM vs Maths & 10 GP / Raja : WM & Civil Service & Wo & 127 GP vs MM & WM / Mongols : WM vs TM / Gorg : WM & 13 GP vs TM / Khazars : TM vs TM / Baekje : WM & 43 GP vs WM. So I have 2 more techs and 823 GP & 17 GPT
1525 BC: Gorg joins the fight vs Koreans giving WM & 37 GP vs Civil Service.
1250 BC : Baekje has contact with the other continent (darn
), it was my only hope to get back in the techs path the cheap way. I should have built a town to build a junk earlier but it was not fitting in my RCP 5 (no comment, please). I will try to rush junk for this with the knowledge of the WM. In order to get the price down, I will grab all information around first. So the deals are : Takeda : WM & 35 GP vs WM / Khazars : WM & 20 GP vs WM / Raja : WM & 5 GP vs WM / Baekje : WM vs WM & 60 GP. I will then sail a suicide junk to other continent thus not paying Baekje for this.1050 BC : Everybody has construction . Thanks to XXX & Baekje. For the moment I share contacts on the other continent with Baekje. I can grab construction from XXX on the other continent : Construction & 2 contacts on other continent vs Confu & Civil Service & WM & 9 GP. I get all maps and all contacts from the second continent. I even grab the last contact on the second continent and I have the monopoly to it. So I can make the deal Baekje : Lit vs Monopoly contact & 18 GP & WM. I have monopoly on Litt with Baekje.
850 BC : Failed the gambit on currency. Bad news. I buy Shaminism from Other Continent for WM & 10 GPT & 133 GP. Entering in Middle Ages.
Wars
2150 BC : I am weak but Korea is average so it is time to divert some energy from the AI to war. Khazars forces marauding in my territory. I have only 10 Reg warriors. I extort 2 GP from Korea and declare War. I bring Khazars for Taoist and 3 GP.
1830 BC : Bring Baekje to war.
1525 BC : Baekje declare peace. Not good Korean are now strong vs me. I ally Gorg to help the fight
1150 BC: I have 1370 GP in my treasury and I decide to upgrade 17 warriors (even some reg) so that I go to the offensive. I have 4 Horse & 12 Warriors & 17 Swords & 719 GP still
975 BC : I declare war on Mongols so that I do not have to face their UU. I ask Khazars to join my fights vs Korea & Mongols for WM & Literature. The good thing is that Khazars have just declare peace to Korea & are in the Mongols territory = bad rep. Takeda just landed on Korean, they join the fight for WM.
I will declare war to the second continent. I take the strongest contestant and ally all the others to wage war for me for some techs to slow the research
Strategy
I am leading in techs but not the leader and still in despotism with no FP so I need to grab both GL (Leader & Library). I will concentrate on finishing Koreans (with some swords and few horses) and Mongols. But I need to go after the Baekje and ally everybody against them because I would like to protect the south front
killerloop
Warlord
- Joined
- Jun 8, 2003
- Messages
- 170
![[ptw]](/images/smilies/ptw.gif "PTW Icon [ptw]")
1.14f predatorA great last scenario from Cracker!!!!!!
Initial thoughts:
Start:
move the workers up the mountain.
Where to settle:
both settlers move 2 before settling. Worked out several scenarios, but capital will build: warrior/warrior/settler/granary/4turn settler factory. Alternative was warrior/granary/settler/warrior/4turn settler factory, which will crank out 1 settler more till 1000BC, but risk is I will not meet civs early enough to trade pottery. Also my preferred scenario cranks out the 1st settler 8 turns earlier .
Where to put Capital:
center of map: quicker contact to other civs, however could be constraint in growth. Southern 2nd core will pop-rush as much as possible. Maybe palace jump, if I can get a FP early enough.
Technology:
Set to zero. Once I can trade Calligraphy, I will full fletched go for Republic.
Game observations:
Land development:
Beijing area (10 cities) is cramped between surrounding Civs. 3 settlers added to other cities, as no space available for settling anymore. Connected 2 luxuries (Dyes & Gems) and 2 resources (Horses & Iron).
Shanghai area (4 cities) is corrupted as hell, but with 3 luxuries (Fur & Spices & Incense) hooked up I manage citizen moods pretty well considering all the lashing Hooked up Horses as well, and try to hook up Iron soon.
Tech development:
No problems. Easy to keep up. Didnt research a thing till I traded for Calligraphy. After that full boost for Republic which I got in 1025BC. In 1075 BC I traded construction and moved in MA. Im the only one that has contact with the rest of world.
Other civs:
Scoring Leader is Korea. The Han are on place 4.
City Improvements:
Beijing area has one barrack and several temples on the outskirt cities to withstand culture flips. The Shanghai area has 3 barracks and 1 temple.
Military Units:
Most of my warriors have been upgraded to Swordsman. My Horseman army is growing every 2 turns. All cities have at least a spearman for defence.
Wonders:
Now wonders built myself. Korea has the Lighthouse in an adjacent city. The Baekje have the Pyramids. Colossus and Oracle are built as well. I will have built my forbidden palace around 750BC depending on the length of my revolution to republic. I will than palace jump to Shanghai.
Wars:
Have been involved in none, although my military advisor still considers my army weakest vs. all other civs. Several wars have been fought, involving Khazars, Baekje, Goguryeo, Rajaputana & Korea. Currently Baekje is under heavy attack, with the war being fought in my Shanghai area.
Next steps & Learnings:
Depending how the Baekje are doing in the war I probably want to grab the Pyramids. My horse & swordsmen should do for that. Than probably going after the Monguls. Once I have my knights I will go for Korea.
I will palace jump to Shanghai as soon as my FP is ready.
I wonder if I should have started in the south. With 3 luxuries close by, the flood plains, and room to expand, a good start would have been possible there as well, although contacts would have lasted longer, so I dont know if I could have traded techs so easily .
Also I think I could have build my FP earlier, as SirPleb did, but only had my 4th city in the Beijing Area starting to build it, calculating I could build it before 1000BC, but made a wrong calc on corruption.
Now building is delayed because of my revolution
Zwingli
Prince
![[civ3mac]](/images/smilies/macciv3.gif "Mac Civ3 Icon [civ3mac]")
(predator)Early Ancient:
Having founded Beijing in the north close to the cluster of fortifications, I converted the capital into a settler factory and founded cities in a dense, but rather random pattern wherever there was sufficient room. Since I had decided early on to attempt a passive cultural victory (without directly attacking enemy cities), many of the cities started on expensive non-religious temples. The southern settler founded Shanghai close to the start position, but after a few improvements the southern worker was sent toward the less corrupt north. Frequent diplomatic checks kept the Han empire up to date on technology at minimal cost, and on good terms with the much larger armies of the neighboring civs. Due to the reluctance of certain civs to build settlers and a bruising war between the Mongols and Rajaputana (intense enough to produce a 1910 BC leader), the Han soon expanded into the largest empire on the starting landmass.
Mid Ancient:
Just after a critical event which greatly increased the value of my world map, I used the valuable map to align my landmass against the culture leading Baekje. I only had a handful of regular warriors at the time due to pouring production into early temples, but the Baekje were sandwiched between enemy civs and unable to exploit my vulnerability. Baekje troops forced me to disband undefended Shanghai in the south, and the Baekjish diplomats brought the Takeda against me. Harmless coastal raids from the Takeda eventually led to the generation of a great leader around 800 BC which was promptly slated to become a southern FP.
Late Ancient
The Baekje lost cities to their neighbors, and soon the Koreans replaced them as the leading continental civ. With the bulk of their troops tramping through my territory, the Koreans will be the next civ to experience some judicious pruning. However, since I have been spending so much production on temples and do not intend to attack Korean cities, the military consists of only a handful of trained horsemen. At the end of the ancient age, the early cultural investment was already paying dividends.
Minor Powers:
The Goguryeo and Khazars appear to be restricted from producing natural settlers, and therefore will be limited to 2 or 3 core cities for the rest of the game (assuming an alternate settler unit is not enabled by a future tech). It will be interesting to see how the AI handles a 2CC.
Txurce
Deity
Beijing was founded in the north between the wheat and cattle, while Shangai was founded a couple of tiles east of the spices. While this cost me a worker in the short run to build a colony, it would allow me to found a city to the west later in the game. Since I am going for a space race win, the extra city seemed worth the wait, rather than having the capital almost on the coast.
Given the large number of civs in the game, I correctly banked on picking up terracotta in a trade, and set initial research at zero. After trading for the alphabet in 3700 BC, I researched math (40 turns). I reached it first in 1910 BC, but only gained iron and gold for it. Despite few wars, the tech pace was slower in my game. Currency was next for me, and I reached it in 1275 BC, but only gained mapmaking, confucianism, and civil service. I then researched republic, which took me into the Middle Ages. Since the majority of civs were in my hemisphere, and I was flogging the tech rate, I gambled that the other hemisphere would be behind in tech, and let someone else find them. In 800 BC the Khazars traded me communications, and I traded one of the eastern civs for construction.
This was later than many of the games described so far, but I had my reasons. The tech pace made coming close to SirPleb impossible. When the Baekje built the Great Library in their capital near the end of the QSC period, I decided to capture that wonder and let it carry my research for a while. In the meantime, I would focus on expanding my empire into two large cores as quickly as possible.
Shanghai pumped out three other cities during the ancient age, one of which flipped. Beijing served as a settler factory, Xinjian to its west built the FP in what would ultimately be a central location, and the rest of the cities spaced 3 and 4 tiles apart focused on workers and vet warriors, chariots and horsemen. By 1000 BC, the Han Dynasty comprised of 17 cities with 35 citizens, 11 workers and one foreign laborer. The 5-barrack military comprised of 11 swords, 9 warriors, 2 horse, and one chariot. I had 474g, and was 8 turns from finishing the FP.
With the close quarters, it didnt take long for me to start suffering from culture flips. I lost two cities in 1100 BC, just as I declared war on Korea to take Pusan, which I wanted for my core. Korea was on the defensive in a war with the Khazars, and proved to be no problem I made peace with them in 900 BC. I declared war on the Takeda in 1075 BC, retook the recently flipped Macao, then turned my horse and swords into elites as they dropped off units on my shores. This continued until 800 BC, when the Takeda gave me shamanism for peace, and I entered the Middle Ages, one turn after completing the FP.
My last moves were establishing embassies with the rest of my hemisphere, and using RoPs to quickly move my swords for a strike against the Baekje capital, and the Great Library.
1.29 Open
I founded Beijing in the popular spot in the north. Shanghai on the hill south of the spices for defensive purposes. Looking back I probably should have got the wheat in the radius right away.
Science
3900 - start granary at max (20 turns)
3750 - trade for the wheel and burial rituals from khazars, terra cotta from mongols; start taoist mystics at max
3400 - get alphabet from baejke
3150 - get bronze culture from gurgeyeo; my continent at tech parity
2710 - learn taoist mystics; start shamanism on min; nothing to trade for yet
2470 - get calligraphy, iron culture from neighbors
1650 - get mapmaking from baejke
1325 - learn shamanism first; nothing to trade for; start lit at max (20 turns)
1300 - get confucianism from neighbors
1200 - raja gets to lit first, so I trade 200g+WM for it and start currency at max (19 turns)
1025 - raja/mongols/baejke get construction but they are at war and I'm 7 turns from currency
875 - learn currency; get construction from neighbors to enter the middle ages; started republic at max (19 turns)
Building highlights
Granary built in Beijing by 3300 with the help of chests
1st settler in 2900 from beijing isn't 4-turn since some mines aren't finished
4-turn factory starts in 2710
2750 - Canton founded to the northeast rcp 4.5
2470 - Nanking founded to the west rcp 4.5
2310 - Tsingtao founded near the north cows rcp 4.5
2150 - Xinjin founded to the southwest rcp 4.5
1990 - Chengdu founded to the southeast rcp 4.5
1725 - baejke beat me to the furs site to the southwest, so I found hangchow sharing 3 tiles with them and start a temple with plans to poprush it asap
1575 - found tientsin in the eastern jungle near the gems; 5 cities at rcp 4/4.5 and 2 at 8/8.5
1425 - last settler rolls off the line as I'm pretty well hemmed in
1200 - library building binge as I get lit
Most cities built a warrior first for MP duties and then barracks in high production cities and temples in all. I managed to trade for 6 slaves during the ancient age to go with 7 of my own workers.
Once the settlers were stopped I started on vet horseman for rider upgrades only pausing for a my crash library program.
Random observations
I had a bigger culture focus than most others it seems. I wanted happy, high production cities to move science along towards a spaceship. The baejke city that I shared tiles with flipped to me in 875. I had 3 luxuries of my own connected by the end of the ancient age and i was sending workers to connect the spices through the baejke lands.
I noticed in 1325 that I was score leader on my landmass.
Lots of wars as everyone was hemmed in good. I had a scare as Korea moved towards tsingtao. I moved my mobile force (2 horseman at the time) into tsingtao and signed rop for 1gpt after they refused a gift of 1gpt. Thankfully they were bypassing me to get to baejke.
Baejke got the pyramids which puts a big target on them. Goguryeo got the collossus, mongols the great library, and korea the great wall. I made no effort as I planned to take wonders by force once I got riders.
I liked the great wall I found to the west of Beijing. It seemed to speed contact with everyone as they used it to send large stacks past my cities.
Once I get riders, the plan is to expand into a 2nd core and keep most of my rivals around to help me research my way into a spaceship victory.
QSC Summary
Score: 536
cities: 10
pop: 47
gold: 516
military: 6 worker, 9 warrior, 6 horseman, 2 eqworker, 6 slaves
6 turns to currency and waiting to trade for construction with all other required techs in hand
I founded Beijing in the popular spot in the north. Shanghai on the hill south of the spices for defensive purposes. Looking back I probably should have got the wheat in the radius right away.
Science
3900 - start granary at max (20 turns)
3750 - trade for the wheel and burial rituals from khazars, terra cotta from mongols; start taoist mystics at max
3400 - get alphabet from baejke
3150 - get bronze culture from gurgeyeo; my continent at tech parity
2710 - learn taoist mystics; start shamanism on min; nothing to trade for yet
2470 - get calligraphy, iron culture from neighbors
1650 - get mapmaking from baejke
1325 - learn shamanism first; nothing to trade for; start lit at max (20 turns)
1300 - get confucianism from neighbors
1200 - raja gets to lit first, so I trade 200g+WM for it and start currency at max (19 turns)
1025 - raja/mongols/baejke get construction but they are at war and I'm 7 turns from currency
875 - learn currency; get construction from neighbors to enter the middle ages; started republic at max (19 turns)
Building highlights
Granary built in Beijing by 3300 with the help of chests
1st settler in 2900 from beijing isn't 4-turn since some mines aren't finished
4-turn factory starts in 2710
2750 - Canton founded to the northeast rcp 4.5
2470 - Nanking founded to the west rcp 4.5
2310 - Tsingtao founded near the north cows rcp 4.5
2150 - Xinjin founded to the southwest rcp 4.5
1990 - Chengdu founded to the southeast rcp 4.5
1725 - baejke beat me to the furs site to the southwest, so I found hangchow sharing 3 tiles with them and start a temple with plans to poprush it asap
1575 - found tientsin in the eastern jungle near the gems; 5 cities at rcp 4/4.5 and 2 at 8/8.5
1425 - last settler rolls off the line as I'm pretty well hemmed in
1200 - library building binge as I get lit
Most cities built a warrior first for MP duties and then barracks in high production cities and temples in all. I managed to trade for 6 slaves during the ancient age to go with 7 of my own workers.
Once the settlers were stopped I started on vet horseman for rider upgrades only pausing for a my crash library program.
Random observations
I had a bigger culture focus than most others it seems. I wanted happy, high production cities to move science along towards a spaceship. The baejke city that I shared tiles with flipped to me in 875. I had 3 luxuries of my own connected by the end of the ancient age and i was sending workers to connect the spices through the baejke lands.
I noticed in 1325 that I was score leader on my landmass.
Lots of wars as everyone was hemmed in good. I had a scare as Korea moved towards tsingtao. I moved my mobile force (2 horseman at the time) into tsingtao and signed rop for 1gpt after they refused a gift of 1gpt. Thankfully they were bypassing me to get to baejke.
Baejke got the pyramids which puts a big target on them. Goguryeo got the collossus, mongols the great library, and korea the great wall. I made no effort as I planned to take wonders by force once I got riders.
I liked the great wall I found to the west of Beijing. It seemed to speed contact with everyone as they used it to send large stacks past my cities.
Once I get riders, the plan is to expand into a 2nd core and keep most of my rivals around to help me research my way into a spaceship victory.
QSC Summary
Score: 536
cities: 10
pop: 47
gold: 516
military: 6 worker, 9 warrior, 6 horseman, 2 eqworker, 6 slaves
6 turns to currency and waiting to trade for construction with all other required techs in hand
Qitai
.
I tried a not so typical GOTM game this time. I started off by hitting the space bar until 10AD, moving the units only once to avoid being killed by Barbarians.
Looking around in 10AD, it looks like we already knew 8 AIs at his time. All AIs except Goguryeo are in MA. Most AI are already building Sun Tze Art of War and Sistine Chapel. Baekje is the most advance I think since he is building Copernicus's Obervatory.
Luckily for me, there are still 2 tiles outside the AI's cultural border beside the wheat plain in the north. I found Beijing beside it and started my struggle to catch up. The south settler makes the long track north since it would have tons of corruption and will be prone to flips.
To cut a long story short, this game has been about getting as much $$ as possible with just two cramped in cities. Selling maps for 1gc each time my worker finish working a tile, going negative cash with 100% science when I still have nothing to maintain, selling 18gc for 1gpt to get my 10% compound interest, shoting for currency to build marketplace and then republic (First time I actually have Republic before bronze working), signing MA with Khazar against Goguryeo just to get cheaper Map Making Tech, and then peace with Goguryeo for Free Civil Service Tech.
Right now, the year is 1090AD when I just got my first break by securing two Incenses at the southern tip. Sold them for Construction and Shamanism to get into MA. It may be a matter of time before it flip since it is so far away. Also, War is breaking out now since the AIs are in Industrial Age with MPPs. I am still waiting for them to kill each other to clear some empty lands. They are building Universal sufferage now and no Infantry in sight yet.
Looking around in 10AD, it looks like we already knew 8 AIs at his time. All AIs except Goguryeo are in MA. Most AI are already building Sun Tze Art of War and Sistine Chapel. Baekje is the most advance I think since he is building Copernicus's Obervatory.
Luckily for me, there are still 2 tiles outside the AI's cultural border beside the wheat plain in the north. I found Beijing beside it and started my struggle to catch up. The south settler makes the long track north since it would have tons of corruption and will be prone to flips.
To cut a long story short, this game has been about getting as much $$ as possible with just two cramped in cities. Selling maps for 1gc each time my worker finish working a tile, going negative cash with 100% science when I still have nothing to maintain, selling 18gc for 1gpt to get my 10% compound interest, shoting for currency to build marketplace and then republic (First time I actually have Republic before bronze working), signing MA with Khazar against Goguryeo just to get cheaper Map Making Tech, and then peace with Goguryeo for Free Civil Service Tech.
Right now, the year is 1090AD when I just got my first break by securing two Incenses at the southern tip. Sold them for Construction and Shamanism to get into MA. It may be a matter of time before it flip since it is so far away. Also, War is breaking out now since the AIs are in Industrial Age with MPPs. I am still waiting for them to kill each other to clear some empty lands. They are building Universal sufferage now and no Infantry in sight yet.
). A screenshot of your map would be nice, Similar threads
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