GOTM 27 Final Spoiler

It is irreversible at this point, i may try loading up my final save to see if i can hold them off, but... I had nothing to bribe others into war with, and my population was still hurting from the last whipping. Plus i had few troops in my auxiliary cities to empty, and they were well outdated. I will load up the save if i have some extra time to see if i could have held out.

Off the top of my head, i had about 700 - 500 - 150 cpt, but had only accumulated about 35k, 25k, 15k, so i was awase off. Those accumulations sound conservative to me; it may have been more. I had 8 artists ready to bomb, 2 artists as specialists in second city.
 
Spaceship Loss to Saladin in 1905 AD.

I never recovered from the hordes of barbarians that hemmed me and my precious CS Oracle in the BC years. I got up to 3 cities but these were soon lost, and I had just my capital for the last 500 years or so until the Arabian rocket was mercifully launched.

Another GOTM, another loss.
 
Spaceship victory in 1873 AD.

Settled south of vine, then fairly quickly placed 4 cities, took one on west from barbs and later squeezed another two on borders. All rivals together finished off Victoria and only one war with Monty.

The tech race was very fast and Saladin was probably just few turn behind with his space ship.

All in all very good game for my level of expertize. I am little surprised nobody so far reported space ship win?
 
Much went well in my game, but little went as planned. I settled on the plains hill south of the wine. My hope was to settle a couple more cities around the flood plains, cover them with cottages early, build lots of wonders, and coast to cheerful and peaceful culture or space victory.

The barbarians had other plans. First, their Bears ate some of my warriors. Then they hid all of the Copper and Horses somewhere I couldn’t see. “Big deal,” I figure. “I’ll just research Archery. Minor speed bump.”

Well by the time I had that researched, and my first Settler built in 2500 BC, there were Barb Archers and Warriors all around me. So I had to go with a spot in the hills NE of Beijing for defense and production, still with some flood plains. I spit out some Archers and threw in Stonehenge real quick (still thinking that’d be handy for a Cultural game). Anyway, by the time I was ready to establish city #3, all of the good spots I’d wanted had Barbarian cities on or near them. I tried to take one of them with Barracks-trained Archers, to no avail.

So as of 775 BC I wasn’t doing so hot. But then I discovered Alphabet (first) and made a lot of tech trades. I found out about the Iron within Beijing’s culture to the south, built a bunch of Swordsmen, and carved through the evil Barbarians, eventually capturing 3 well-sited cities. I also grabbed some other choice spots with Settlers, getting a western border from one coast to the other, along the line formed by the Stone and Gold. While that was going on I also built the Great Library in Beijing, right around 0 AD.

I continued to play with the Space Race in mind, building lots of cottages, etc. But having tasted the fruits of conquest, my people demanded more… So I went after the Incas in 740 AD. They were the only Hindus on a continent of Confucians and owned some choice territory to my NE. I considered going after Monty instead—he was fighting Vicky at the time—and would later wish that I had.

I overwhelmed Huyana’s Longbows with Macemen and Cats, capturing everything up to Cuzco before making peace in 1112 AD. The war hadn’t hindered my research much, I discovered Education shortly thereafter.

I was hampered by the fact that Peter was my only good trading partner. Everyone else was pretty backwards. At some point after I had Liberalism safely in hand (1262 AD), I began gifting techs to Saladin and Alexander in the hopes they might become fruitful trade partners in the future. This had some success farther down the line.

Monty I preferred to keep in the dark, as he was well on his way to finishing off Vicky and had a huge empire of his own. As for Huyana… Once I had Riflemen I tore through his remaining cities with ease, finishing him off in 1613 AD.

My plan from there on out was to get back to the whole peaceful space race thing. I built happy, lovey-dovey wonders like the Eiffel Tower and Rock and Roll. I prioritized Computers, built lots of factories and labs. My previously formidable military was neglected. And of course, Monty made me pay for that. He attacked in 1756 AD, the same turn I developed Robotics. Hordes of Cavalry followed by a huge mass of Riflemen, Cannons, and Grenadiers rolled into my territory. At first the faced primarily Infantry, and they overwhelmed the mighty commercial center of Xian and threatened several other key cities. But I switched to Nationalism and went to 100% cash economy, and within a few turns my frontlines were manned by drafted and/or upgraded Mechanized Infantry and Tanks. I also bribed Peter and Alexander to declare on Monty.

The peril was over. But my already tenuous plans for a fast space race were out the window. And I was ticked off. I wanted Monty dead, and I wanted this game done with. I figured the fastest way to accomplish that was to steamroll the Aztecs and try for a Diplomatic win.

Once my war machine really got started it blew through an Aztec city every turn or two. Researching Mass Media and building the UN didn’t take all that long either. I did have a 5-turn delay as I dramatically changed my civics to try and curry favor with Saladin. That didn’t work out at all, the ungrateful wretch only gave me another +2 for my troubles. Fortunately, capturing most of Monty’s 20% of world pop in addition to my pre-war 20% was enough so that I won on the second vote for world leader, with Peter supporting me and Alex as my opponent. Victory came in 1824 AD with a score of 4,694/46,544.
 
Challanger save

Don't have time to write a real spoiler but if someone want to do a comparision I can probably find time for that later on.

Short summary:
*Settled in place, 2nd city on the hill SW of the wine, third SE (fish and lots of hills, later HE)
*MC from oracle
*Early GP: Oracle GP settled (is that a good plan?), academy
*Barbs annoying (a couple of improvments, like the gold, pillage) but I had a nice Fog busting warrior force working early on most sides.
*Bad early trading due to not scouting and finding everybody until later
*Took out Inca AD 400-600 (he settle a city claiming the northen gems so I really had no choice :D )
*Liberalism->Astronomy
*Late trading with Liz and Peter
*Alex invaded and burned one city
*Late war with Monty at Lizs request, his HA did not stood up to the challege of facing my tanks :lol: (burn or gifted captured cities to Peter)
*Late backstab by Saladin (not my friend but not my enemy either) with some annoying Gunships coming in but no real harm to SS constructing cities. I think I burned some of his cities but I can't remember for sure
*Taj and 3 GA triggered GAs
*4-5 last SS parts constructed within 2 turns
*No other AI close at that point
 
I only got two cities up before I got badly boxed in by two barb cities (one on a hill to boot :mad:). It took forever to build enough axemen to take the barbs out so I could continue to expand. This set my whole game back.

Lonnngggg time later, I finished with a conquest win in 1703 AD. I expect this to lose by 2-3 centuries :rolleyes:.

Being a Geezer means having a slow finish. I had the UN at 1502 but took another 200 years get everyone friendly enough to vote for me :crazyeye:
 
Entry class: Challenger
Game status: Cultural Victory for China
Game date: 1744AD

Good: Fought a lot of battles, and was never threatened myself.
Good: Captured HC cities with copper and marble in FC (using Galleon chain along eastern coast up north) to build Cathedrals.
Good: Plenty of data to compare with jesusin (and others)
Bad: Victory far later than 1700 AD, which was the target
Bad: Far, far later than jesusin
Bad: Miserable cultural play in general

Thanks staff for map :goodjob:
 
Can someone summarise what the really good players did in the first 30 or 40 turns of this game? Clearly some of the superstars were already miles ahead of some of us by that point and I'd like to know what it is that they all did right.
 
Good: Captured HC cities with copper and marble in FC (using Galleon chain along eastern coast up north) to build Cathedrals.

Well done, Erkon. Don't feel bad, please, I have won cultural Awards in past GOTMs with dates worse than yours (and playing the contender save too).

Now, being proud of having built Galleons in a cultural game... and having used them to conquest the next-door AI...You should be ashamed instead! :joke:

Good: Plenty of data to compare with jesusin (and others)

Come on! Don't keep me waiting, spit those data!
How many GA? Cathedrals dates? Multipliers per city? # of cottages? Did they all finish on the same turn? 90% culture most of the time? Which year did you switch off research? Any relevant civic changes? I want it aaaaaaall!
 
Can someone summarise what the really good players did in the first 30 or 40 turns of this game? Clearly some of the superstars were already miles ahead of some of us by that point and I'd like to know what it is that they all did right.

Please, don't miss the Erkon-jesusin-others discussion on first moves in the pregame thread, I think there is a lot of knowledge there even if we are not among the superstars.

Also in the first spoiler thread most players have stated their settling place, their first 2 techs researched and their 3 first builds.
If you relate that data to the finish date, you will find that, as usual, Worker first and best-tile-available-worker-tech researched first are the winning moves (together with fogbusting, which was mandatory this game).
 
Can someone summarise what the really good players did in the first 30 or 40 turns of this game? Clearly some of the superstars were already miles ahead of some of us by that point and I'd like to know what it is that they all did right.

I'm not one of the really good players, but I do at least eke out a win in most games so I'm going to offer some tips anyway. :)

Build a Worker first. I was sceptical of this once upon a time but am now fully converted to this school of thought. A possible exception are games where a Work Boat could come in handy right at the start.

After getting a Worker and providing for basic defense, concentrate on getting a second city going either via conquest or settling.

In almost every game, get Bronze Working early and use Slavery and/or chopping of forests to boost your early production. You almost can't go wrong with this.
 
Space victory (contender) 1844 48,779 points

Initial builds: worker, warrior, scout, archer, archer, archer,

Initial research: wheel (3580 B.C.), hunting (3310 B.C.), archery (3010 B.C), pottery (2680 B.C.), bronze working (2350 B.C.), writing (2080 B.C.), alphabet (1630 B.C.) (traded immediately for animal husbandry and masonry), iron working (910 B.C.) (traded immediately for mathematics and fishing/mysticism and later for meditation/sailing).

Other key techs: code of laws (170 A.D.), machinery (215 A.D.), liberalism (1148 A.D. – took printing press), gunpowder (1196 A.D.), scientific method (1595 A.D.), electricity (1667 A.D.), railroad (1700 A.D.), computers (1727 A.D.), rocketry (1756 A.D.), fission (1817 A.D.) I did a lot of trading along the way. I never reached the WFYABTA limit with anyone.

Shanghai was founded 1600 B.C. to the north by the pigs and spices. Guangzhou was founded 715 B.C. to the west by the stone. At 0 A.D., I had four cities, was fourth in score and researching music. At the end of the game, I had 28 cities, was top in score by 2000+ points over Alexander, had 48% of the world’s population and 47% of the world’s land, and was researching my first future tech.

Several wonders were built. Great Library (110 A.D.), Hanging Gardens (485 A.D.), Statute of Liberty (1592 A.D.), Versailles (1658 A.D.), Broadway (1746 A.D.), Eiffel Tower (1752 A.D.), Pentagon (1820 A.D.) and Three Gorges Dam (1821 A.D.). I also captured Stonehenge from Vicky and three shrines (one from Vicky and two from H.C.). I also built the Internet and got three or four techs that way.

I did not found any religions, although five spread to me. The AI each founded their own religions. Monty was Jewish, H.C. was Hindu, Vicky founded Confucianism, Saladin was Buddhist and Peter founded Taoism. I never adopted a religion so as to avoid the negative modifiers and switched to free religion as soon as I could.

Unlike others, I didn’t have a significant barbarian problem. I lost my starting warrior to a lion on turn 10 (78.7% odds to warrior). I lost the scout to a lion 5 turns after he was built (71.4% odds to scout). My forces killed 19 barbarian archers, 2 barbarian warriors and 1 barbarian axeman (the only one I saw the whole game) in the wild. I also killed several barbs taking three barb cities. I lost my second warrior to a barbarian archer on turn 70. I also lost an axe and one archer to barbs. I never had an improvement destroyed by barbs or any of them even get close.

Monty declared war on Vicky in 160 B.C. He asked me to join in shortly thereafter, which I did. Part of the plan was to keep Monty happy as a buffer between me and Peter/Saladin/Vicky. I gifted him a couple of early techs to get the +4 trade relations are fair and forthright and opened borders with him as well. My first war with Vicky didn’t amount to much. I lost a couple of units, she lost a few, I destroyed three scrub cities on our borders and a few improvements to set her back. I signed a peace treaty in 695 A.D. Monty declared war on Vicky again in 1100 A.D. I joined in in 1214 after Monty asked. Alexander and Saladin also joined in. Again, I lost a few units, she lost more and I took and kept one city. I signed a peace treaty with Vicky in 1358 A.D.

I declared war on Huayna Capac in 1136 A.D. Thus began the long slow march to conquer all of his territory. I kept some of his cities, razing others that were not well placed and to keep the maintenance down. Unfortunately, the cultural gaps let Peter sneak in two coastal cities, Alex one and Vicky one. At the end of the game, those cities just had a few land squares due to cultural pressure, although only the English city flipped. I captured Cuzco in 1484 A.D. and took his last city and eliminated him in 1568.

In 1310 A.D. something I’ve never seen before happened. Alex declared war on me. He then immediately asked for a cease fire, and demanded a tech (philosophy) as the price of peace. I decided to give it to him, even though he probably couldn’t have attacked with much as I don’t think he had astronomy yet.

Peter declared on Vicky in 1628 A.D. In 1631 Monty declared on Peter and I declared on Vicky. Alex declared on Vicky in 1646. Vicky was eliminated in 1661, with me taking 3 cities. Peter and Monty signed a peace treaty shortly thereafter.

In 1703 I bribed Peter to declare on Monty. It was time to take Monty’s territory away from him to expand. I used an explorer to monitor the war, and after most of Monty’s excess forces had been killed off by Peter, I declared on Monty in 1721. Peter took a couple of Monty’s cities. I took most of them. Monty was eliminated in 1794 A.D.

After that, I focused on increasing research and developing my production cities, while trying to build enough units to keep Peter, Saladin and Alex off my back. Throughout most of the game, they were pleased, but never friendly. I used the GE from fusion and a GA for a Golden Age, converted tiles to mines and workshops in my production cities and focused on building laboratories until it was time to build spaceship parts. With the exception of the spaceship cities and a couple of cities building units, most cities built research and scientists were assigned. I started the Space Elevator, but it still had four turns to go at the end of the game.

At the time my spaceship launched, Saladin had completed three casings. Alex had four turns left and Peter six turns to build the Apollo program. The UN was never built. Overall, an enjoyable game. Thanks to the game designer.
 
Unlike others, I didn’t have a significant barbarian problem. I lost my starting warrior to a lion on turn 10 (78.7% odds to warrior). I lost the scout to a lion 5 turns after he was built (71.4% odds to scout). My forces killed 19 barbarian archers, 2 barbarian warriors and 1 barbarian axeman (the only one I saw the whole game) in the wild. I also killed several barbs taking three barb cities. I lost my second warrior to a barbarian archer on turn 70. I also lost an axe and one archer to barbs. I never had an improvement destroyed by barbs or any of them even get close.

How did you manage this? I got completely overrun by those barbaric barbarians.
 
I think it's his initial research and build orders:

Initial research: wheel (3580 B.C.), hunting (3310 B.C.), archery (3010 B.C).

Initial builds: worker, warrior, scout, archer, archer, archer

Having early archers on a map/level like this makes a big difference. I'm guessing because of the slingshot you did that you didn't have time to research hunting/archery or build a bunch of early archers.

I did something similar: AH, BW, Hunting, Archery, with builds worker, warrior, warrior, warrior, archer, settler. Focusing on basic techs/defense at the start might not win you any speed awards, but it makes it much easier to win.
 
...
Now, being proud of having built Galleons in a cultural game... and having used them to conquest the next-door AI...You should be ashamed instead! :joke:

Come on! Don't keep me waiting, spit those data!
How many GA? Cathedrals dates? Multipliers per city? # of cottages? Did they all finish on the same turn? 90% culture most of the time? Which year did you switch off research? Any relevant civic changes? I want it aaaaaaall!

I didn't conquer HC, I just stole two cities and razed two. It just happened that the Marble was in the far north, and the land route was a bit crowded :D

I've extracted the details and present them in the spoiler sections. I popped 10 GA and one GM. With a bit of planning, the GM could have been an artist, but I didn't think it would pop. It would have saved me four turns, which was when the other two cities became legendary. I build five cathedrals in each city, and the Hermitage. Capital and second city was running 10 towns each, while the third city ran ~5 towns and ~5 villages at the end. About 1100-1000-500. I settled the first GA in the weakest city, and then bombed early to flip the northern food city (Victoria snatched it before my eyes :cry: ). I switched off research after Nationalism (1190 AD) because I took Printing Press with Liberalism (965 AD). I ran 100% gold until 1490 AD, then 100% culture. I had accumulated well over 10k gold.

I can probably go on and on about the details, but why don't you check for yourself and I'll fill in what cannot be understood from the extractions.

Just to repeat the obvious: My major mistake was that I didn't tech correct. And building military units also had a big impact, although the copper and marble saved about 30 turns production in my cultural cities. I'm happy with the diplomatic actions though. Did I mention that I captured Montezuma's capital? :mwaha: Then I gifted the city + my units to Victoria, and she wiped him off the map :lol:

I don't know if I'm allowed to post my save or replay file here, but I will do that once the submit date has passed.

Happy reading! :D

Main events:
Spoiler :

3940 BC Beijing founded
3430 BC Tech learned: Animal Husbandry
3430 BC Buddhism founded in a distant land
3220 BC Erkon: Settle on plains hill, pasture completed
3040 BC Tech learned: The Wheel
2800 BC Tech learned: Hunting
2800 BC Hinduism founded in a distant land
2590 BC Tech learned: Archery
2560 BC Erkon: Human barbs will show up now
2320 BC Erkon: Hmm, not that much barbarian activity...
2260 BC Tech learned: Bronze Working
2230 BC Erkon: Hmm, no copper? That's bad...
2230 BC Shanghai founded
2110 BC Tech learned: Mysticism
1930 BC Tech learned: Pottery
1870 BC Judaism founded in a distant land
1660 BC Tech learned: Writing
1450 BC Guangzhou founded
1210 BC Erkon: I think I have my three legendary cities. Now I need to improve them as well as expand to get production cities.
925 BC Tech learned: Alphabet
910 BC Tech learned: Fishing
850 BC Tech learned: Sailing
820 BC Confucianism founded in a distant land
805 BC Tech learned: Polytheism
805 BC Tech learned: Masonry
805 BC Tech learned: Iron Working
790 BC Tech learned: Meditation
790 BC Tech learned: Priesthood
565 BC Nanjing founded
565 BC Tech learned: Mathematics
475 BC Xian founded
460 BC Taoism founded in a distant land
445 BC Tech learned: Metal Casting
430 BC Tech learned: Monarchy
430 BC Chengdu founded
400 BC Erkon: They keep requesting tech from me, and I oblige. Good relations are better than tech lead.
295 BC Tech learned: Drama
265 BC Erkon: He, he, Huayna is north. He must dies! Ooops, I'm playing Cultural.. *blush*
235 BC Tech learned: Calendar
235 BC Erkon: Oh my, the research pace is really picking up speed. That's what I really like with Emperor, the AI tech as quick as the human.
235 BC Erkon: I need a bunch of workers, and I need to grow my cities. Does not compute!
130 BC Tech learned: Monotheism
130 BC Erkon: No!!! I misclicked a deal! And lost 370 gold *weep*
130 BC Erkon: Ahh, nice, I've bypassed Huayna in score
130 BC Christianity founded in a distant land
70 BC Erkon: Fckitall!! The misclick costed me an Artist! Dammit!!! Peter got Music one turn ahead of me. Time to stop and play Crysis and kill some bad guys....
70 BC Tech learned: Currency
70 BC Erkon: Ok, I'm back. I can't believe I messed up this big!
70 BC Erkon: I've got six cities now, and I plan for another 3. Then I'll probably start a war.
70 BC Tech learned: Music
5 AD Montezuma(Aztec) declares war on Peter(Russia)
20 AD Erkon: Wow! I'm glad Im not in that line of fire. But Peter will ask me soon, time to build and army!
35 AD Qin Shi Huang(China) declares war on Montezuma(Aztec)
35 AD Victoria(England) declares war on Montezuma(Aztec)
35 AD Erkon: He he, another one joins (bribed her) *lol*
110 AD Tech learned: Machinery
245 AD Hangzhou founded
260 AD Tech learned: Philosophy
275 AD Tech learned: Code of Laws
275 AD Tech learned: Literature
305 AD Tech learned: Compass
320 AD Tianjin founded
335 AD Tech learned: Theology
350 AD Captured Phrygian (Barbarian)
350 AD Erkon: Ha! Snatched the barbarian city in front of Victoria!
350 AD Tech learned: Optics
395 AD Erkon: Only conf + islam lacking
395 AD Erkon: And taoism
455 AD Tech learned: Paper
500 AD Captured Uzbek (Barbarian)
515 AD Islam founded in a distant land
530 AD Victoria(England) and Montezuma(Aztec) have signed a peace treaty
545 AD Qin Shi Huang(China) and Montezuma(Aztec) have signed a peace treaty
650 AD Erkon: Bad luck, I could have got a city for free.
650 AD Thespis (Great Artist) born in Chengdu
665 AD Tech learned: Construction
665 AD Tech learned: Horseback Riding
785 AD Qin Shi Huang(China) declares war on Montezuma(Aztec)
785 AD Victoria(England) declares war on Montezuma(Aztec)
815 AD Captured Estruscan (Montezuma)
815 AD Tech learned: Education
830 AD Montezuma(Aztec) and Peter(Russia) have signed a peace treaty
965 AD Tech learned: Liberalism
980 AD Tech learned: Printing Press
980 AD Tech learned: Feudalism
980 AD Tech learned: Civil Service
995 AD Erkon: I gifted Estrucan to Saladin to get more foreign territory towards Monty
995 AD Tech learned: Engineering
1070 AD Victoria(England) and Montezuma(Aztec) have signed a peace treaty
1085 AD Qin Shi Huang(China) and Montezuma(Aztec) have signed a peace treaty
1085 AD Wang Xizhi (Great Artist) born in Chengdu
1160 AD Victoria(England) declares war on Montezuma(Aztec)
1166 AD Tech learned: Guilds
1184 AD Valmiki (Great Artist) born in Chengdu
1190 AD Qin Shi Huang(China) declares war on Montezuma(Aztec)
1190 AD Tech learned: Nationalism
1196 AD Tech learned: Banking
1244 AD Peter(Russia) declares war on Montezuma(Aztec)
1268 AD Tech learned: Economics
1268 AD Erkon: Now I've got some religions in 6 cities, and others in 9.
1268 AD Erkon: No more missies
1274 AD Erkon: What!? A measly +6 gpt for one turn of anarchy!!!!
1292 AD Victoria(England) and Montezuma(Aztec) have signed a peace treaty
1304 AD Du Fu (Great Artist) born in Chengdu
1322 AD Erkon: Most Temples are completed, Legendary cities build Cathedrals. Time for war production *lol*
1388 AD Erkon:Russian city flipped due to cultural pressure, will I keep it? I don't think so! Disband useless city.
1394 AD Erkon: I tricked a horse archer to leave the city and sacrificed a cat.
1394 AD Captured Calixtlahuaca (Montezuma)
1394 AD Qin Shi Huang(China) and Montezuma(Aztec) have signed a peace treaty
1394 AD Erkon: I will get about 500 cpt and need 70 000. That's 140 turns.
1400 AD Tech learned: Astronomy
1400 AD Erkon: Let's see if I can provoke HC to attack me. I want his copper city! *evil*
1418 AD Tech learned: Gunpowder
1448 AD Jalal al-Din Rumi (Great Artist) born in Chengdu
1454 AD Victoria(England) declares war on Montezuma(Aztec)
1454 AD Qin Shi Huang(China) declares war on Huayna Capac(Inca)
1460 AD Qin Shi Huang(China) declares war on Montezuma(Aztec)
1466 AD Captured Vilcas (Huayna Capac)
1484 AD Captured Corihuayrachina (Huayna Capac)
1490 AD Erkon: Time to go 100% culture
1502 AD Peter(Russia) and Montezuma(Aztec) have signed a peace treaty
1508 AD Captured Andahuaylas (Huayna Capac)
1514 AD Tech learned: Constitution
1514 AD Alexander(Greece) declares war on Huayna Capac(Inca)
1538 AD Captured Huamanga (Huayna Capac)
1538 AD Erkon: Nice, Marble connected *smile*
1538 AD Erkon: Culture pressure on marble remoed
1538 AD Qin Shi Huang(China) and Huayna Capac(Inca) have signed a peace treaty
1568 AD Amir Khusro (Great Artist) born in Chengdu
1580 AD Erkon: Set sail with 7 Galleons loaded with harm
1586 AD Peter(Russia) declares war on Montezuma(Aztec)
1589 AD Captured Tlatelolco (Montezuma)
1589 AD Huayna Capac(Inca) and Alexander(Greece) have signed a peace treaty
1592 AD Erkon: How ironic! I've waged war and brought devastation for Copper. And then it pops next to my capital! *lol*
1601 AD Erkon: Time to start disbanding units (5 Galleons)
1601 AD Erkon: Make that 7
1604 AD Captured Tenochtitlan (Montezuma)
1607 AD Erkon: Nice, no unit cost or upkeep. Time to revolt to Pacifism
1619 AD Michaelangelo (Great Artist) born in Uzbek
1631 AD Erkon: I've halved my loss from -230 gpt to -118 gpt
1658 AD Erkon: Capital will go Legendary in 33 turns (389)
1658 AD Erkon: At that time, second city will have 68k and third city will have 61k.
1658 AD Erkon: With a bit of readjusting, 2nd city will reach 69k on T33, and will need one GA.
1658 AD William Shakespeare (Great Artist) born in Phrygian
1670 AD Erkon: Saladin has Artillery....
1670 AD Rembrandt van Rijn (Great Artist) born in Chengdu
1712 AD Johannes Vermeer (Great Artist) born in Thracian
1718 AD Tech learned: Corporation
1736 AD Erkon: 3% to pop a GA, to save a few turns
1736 AD Wang Anshi (Great Merchant) born in Guangzhou
1742 AD Erkon: Sweet, before 1750 AD...

Research:
Spoiler :

Turn .Yearoch Beakers .TotalB Techname
.19 .3430 BC . . 130 . . 130 Animal Husbandry
.32 .3040 BC . . .78 . . 208 The Wheel
.40 .2800 BC . . .52 . . 260 Hunting
.47 .2590 BC . . .78 . . 338 Archery
.58 .2260 BC . . 156 . . 494 Bronze Working
.63 .2110 BC . . .65 . . 559 Mysticism
.69 .1930 BC . . 104 . . 663 Pottery
.78 .1660 BC . . 156 . . 819 Writing
105 . 925 BC . . 390 . .1209 Alphabet
106 . 910 BC . . .52 . .1261 Fishing
110 . 850 BC . . 130 . .1391 Sailing
113 . 805 BC . . 130 . .1521 Polytheism
113 . 805 BC . . 104 . .1625 Masonry
113 . 805 BC . . 260 . .1885 Iron Working
114 . 790 BC . . 104 . .1989 Meditation
114 . 790 BC . . .78 . .2067 Priesthood
129 . 565 BC . . 325 . .2392 Mathematics
137 . 445 BC . . 585 . .2977 Metal Casting
138 . 430 BC . . 390 . .3367 Monarchy
147 . 295 BC . . 390 . .3757 Drama
151 . 235 BC . . 455 . .4212 Calendar
158 . 130 BC . . 156 . .4368 Monotheism
162 . .70 BC . . 520 . .4888 Currency
162 . .70 BC . . 780 . .5668 Music
174 . 110 AD . . 910 . .6578 Machinery
184 . 260 AD . .1040 . .7618 Philosophy
185 . 275 AD . . 455 . .8073 Code of Laws
185 . 275 AD . . 260 . .8333 Literature
187 . 305 AD . . 520 . .8853 Compass
189 . 335 AD . . 650 . .9503 Theology
190 . 350 AD . . 780 . 10283 Optics
197 . 455 AD . . 780 . 11063 Paper
211 . 665 AD . . 455 . 11518 Construction
211 . 665 AD . . 325 . 11843 Horseback Riding
221 . 815 AD . .5850 . 17693 Education
231 . 965 AD . .1820 . 19513 Liberalism
232 . 980 AD . .2080 . 21593 Printing Press
232 . 980 AD . . 910 . 22503 Feudalism
232 . 980 AD . .1040 . 23543 Civil Service
233 . 995 AD . .1300 . 24843 Engineering
251 .1166 AD . .1300 . 26143 Guilds
255 .1190 AD . .2340 . 28483 Nationalism
256 .1196 AD . . 910 . 29393 Banking
268 .1268 AD . .1820 . 31213 Economics
290 .1400 AD . .2600 . 33813 Astronomy
293 .1418 AD . .1560 . 35373 Gunpowder
309 .1514 AD . .2600 . 37973 Constitution
376 .1718 AD . .2080 . 40053 Corporation

 
And here comes the production list:
Spoiler :

Turn .Year . .Unitname
.19 .3430 BC Worker
.28 .3160 BC Warrior
.33 .3010 BC Warrior
.39 .2830 BC Warrior
.43 .2710 BC Warrior
.56 .2320 BC Settler
.61 .2170 BC Archer
.64 .2080 BC Archer
.68 .1960 BC Obelisk
.69 .1930 BC Archer
.78 .1660 BC Worker
.80 .1600 BC Settler
.85 .1450 BC Archer
.89 .1330 BC Archer
.90 .1300 BC Obelisk
.92 .1240 BC Granary
.93 .1210 BC Archer
105 . 925 BC Worker
106 . 910 BC Granary
106 . 910 BC Granary
114 . 790 BC Library
115 . 775 BC Archer
118 . 730 BC Library
125 . 625 BC Settler
131 . 535 BC Archer
132 . 520 BC Settler
135 . 475 BC Settler
138 . 430 BC Scout
141 . 385 BC Axeman
144 . 340 BC Buddhist Monastery
146 . 310 BC Worker
148 . 280 BC Axeman
151 . 235 BC Worker
151 . 235 BC Granary
153 . 205 BC Forge
154 . 190 BC Granary
155 . 175 BC Work Boat
158 . 130 BC Worker
159 . 115 BC Worker
161 . .85 BC Worker
163 . .55 BC Granary
165 . .25 BC Theatre
167 . . 5 AD Forge
171 . .65 AD Theatre
172 . .80 AD Swordsman
172 . .80 AD Forge
173 . .95 AD Buddhist Missionary
174 . 110 AD Worker
175 . 125 AD Work Boat
177 . 155 AD Lighthouse
178 . 170 AD Buddhist Temple
179 . 185 AD Barracks
181 . 215 AD Settler
184 . 260 AD Cho-Ko-Nu
184 . 260 AD Jewish Monastery
184 . 260 AD Theatre
185 . 275 AD Cho-Ko-Nu
186 . 290 AD Settler
188 . 320 AD Jewish Temple
189 . 335 AD Forge
190 . 350 AD Buddhist Missionary
190 . 350 AD Jewish Missionary
190 . 350 AD Forge
190 . 350 AD Cho-Ko-Nu
195 . 425 AD Hindu Monastery
196 . 440 AD Buddhist Temple
199 . 485 AD Jewish Temple
199 . 485 AD Hindu Missionary
201 . 515 AD Archer
201 . 515 AD Cho-Ko-Nu
201 . 515 AD Caravel
202 . 530 AD Granary
204 . 560 AD Cho-Ko-Nu
206 . 590 AD Buddhist Temple
206 . 590 AD Library
208 . 620 AD Cho-Ko-Nu
209 . 635 AD Market
210 . 650 AD Hindu Temple
210 . 650 AD Cho-Ko-Nu
210 . 650 AD Granary
211 . 665 AD Jewish Missionary
212 . 680 AD Granary
213 . 695 AD Buddhist Missionary
213 . 695 AD Hindu Missionary
213 . 695 AD Forge
214 . 710 AD Cho-Ko-Nu
216 . 740 AD Jewish Missionary
217 . 755 AD Hindu Missionary
217 . 755 AD Granary
218 . 770 AD Barracks
218 . 770 AD Work Boat
219 . 785 AD Islamic Monastery
220 . 800 AD Islamic Missionary
220 . 800 AD Forge
221 . 815 AD Barracks
222 . 830 AD Aqueduct
223 . 845 AD War Elephant
223 . 845 AD Jewish Temple
223 . 845 AD Theatre
224 . 860 AD Hindu Temple
224 . 860 AD National Epic
225 . 875 AD Catapult
225 . 875 AD Archer
226 . 890 AD Christian Temple
227 . 905 AD War Elephant
227 . 905 AD Islamic Missionary
227 . 905 AD War Elephant
229 . 935 AD Hindu Temple
230 . 950 AD Islamic Temple
230 . 950 AD Catapult
230 . 950 AD Archer
230 . 950 AD Christian Temple
232 . 980 AD Hindu Missionary
236 .1040 AD Cho-Ko-Nu
237 .1055 AD Buddhist Monastery
237 .1055 AD Islamic Missionary
237 .1055 AD Hindu Missionary
237 .1055 AD Christian Monastery
237 .1055 AD Forge
239 .1085 AD Buddhist Missionary
239 .1085 AD Longbowman
239 .1085 AD Christian Missionary
241 .1106 AD Forge
242 .1112 AD Hindu Missionary
244 .1124 AD Jewish Synagogue
244 .1124 AD Buddhist Missionary
245 .1130 AD Hindu Missionary
245 .1130 AD Christian Temple
245 .1130 AD Buddhist Temple
246 .1136 AD Islamic Temple
248 .1148 AD Buddhist Missionary
248 .1148 AD Buddhist Missionary
248 .1148 AD Christian Temple
249 .1154 AD Christian Missionary
249 .1154 AD Islamic Missionary
249 .1154 AD Christian Missionary
250 .1160 AD Aqueduct
250 .1160 AD Islamic Missionary
251 .1166 AD Buddhist Missionary
251 .1166 AD Islamic Temple
251 .1166 AD Jewish Missionary
252 .1172 AD Hindu Mandir
252 .1172 AD Buddhist Missionary
252 .1172 AD Buddhist Temple
254 .1184 AD Hindu Missionary
254 .1184 AD Jewish Missionary
255 .1190 AD Lighthouse
256 .1196 AD Christian Temple
257 .1202 AD Buddhist Missionary
257 .1202 AD Buddhist Temple
257 .1202 AD Islamic Temple
257 .1202 AD Christian Missionary
258 .1208 AD Pikeman
258 .1208 AD Jewish Missionary
259 .1214 AD Hindu Temple
260 .1220 AD Jewish Missionary
260 .1220 AD Islamic Missionary
262 .1232 AD Maceman
262 .1232 AD Islamic Temple

win list:
Spoiler :

Turn .Year Unitname
.32 .3040 BC Lion
.33 .3010 BC Panther
.33 .3010 BC Panther
.44 .2680 BC Lion
.46 .2620 BC Lion
.49 .2530 BC Lion
.49 .2530 BC Archer
.54 .2380 BC Warrior
.57 .2290 BC Archer
.70 .1900 BC Warrior
.82 .1540 BC Warrior
.84 .1480 BC Archer
.85 .1450 BC Archer
.88 .1360 BC Warrior
.89 .1330 BC Archer
.96 .1120 BC Warrior
116 . 760 BC Archer
130 . 550 BC Archer
139 . 415 BC Archer
146 . 310 BC Archer
153 . 205 BC Archer
176 . 140 AD Archer
176 . 140 AD Archer
183 . 245 AD Archer
184 . 260 AD Archer
186 . 290 AD Archer
186 . 290 AD Archer
190 . 350 AD Archer
191 . 365 AD Archer
199 . 485 AD Archer
199 . 485 AD Axeman
200 . 500 AD Archer
210 . 650 AD Archer
211 . 665 AD Archer
219 . 785 AD Worker
221 . 815 AD Longbowman
221 . 815 AD Axeman
232 . 980 AD War Elephant
233 . 995 AD Horse Archer
233 . 995 AD Horse Archer
235 .1025 AD Horse Archer
236 .1040 AD Horse Archer
240 .1100 AD Galley
256 .1196 AD Catapult
261 .1226 AD Horse Archer
264 .1244 AD Horse Archer
265 .1250 AD Horse Archer
265 .1250 AD Horse Archer
272 .1292 AD Horse Archer
276 .1316 AD Horse Archer
277 .1322 AD Swordsman
279 .1334 AD Horse Archer
285 .1370 AD Catapult
285 .1370 AD Horse Archer
286 .1376 AD Catapult
286 .1376 AD Catapult
289 .1394 AD Longbowman
289 .1394 AD Longbowman
289 .1394 AD Maceman
289 .1394 AD Horse Archer
289 .1394 AD Catapult
299 .1454 AD Worker
301 .1466 AD Longbowman
301 .1466 AD Pikeman
304 .1484 AD Knight
304 .1484 AD Longbowman
304 .1484 AD Knight
304 .1484 AD Maceman
304 .1484 AD Longbowman
304 .1484 AD Horse Archer
304 .1484 AD Catapult
307 .1502 AD Knight
307 .1502 AD Galleon
308 .1508 AD Longbowman
308 .1508 AD Pikeman
309 .1514 AD Knight
314 .1532 AD Knight
314 .1532 AD Horse Archer
315 .1535 AD Horse Archer
316 .1538 AD Longbowman
316 .1538 AD Longbowman
316 .1538 AD Maceman
333 .1589 AD Longbowman
333 .1589 AD Longbowman
333 .1589 AD Catapult
338 .1604 AD Crossbowman
338 .1604 AD Musketman
338 .1604 AD Longbowman
338 .1604 AD Longbowman
338 .1604 AD Pikeman


lost list:
Spoiler :

Turn .Year . .Unitname
.78 .1660 BC Warrior
.88 .1360 BC Archer
108 . 880 BC Warrior
138 . 430 BC Archer
170 . .50 AD Warrior
190 . 350 AD Axeman
191 . 365 AD Swordsman
199 . 485 AD Cho-Ko-Nu
200 . 500 AD Cho-Ko-Nu
210 . 650 AD Axeman
221 . 815 AD Cho-Ko-Nu
232 . 980 AD War Elephant
232 . 980 AD War Elephant
232 . 980 AD Cho-Ko-Nu
233 . 995 AD Cho-Ko-Nu
256 .1196 AD Catapult
256 .1196 AD Catapult
288 .1388 AD Catapult
289 .1394 AD Catapult
299 .1454 AD Cho-Ko-Nu
301 .1466 AD Catapult
301 .1466 AD Catapult
304 .1484 AD Cho-Ko-Nu
304 .1484 AD Cho-Ko-Nu
304 .1484 AD Cho-Ko-Nu
304 .1484 AD Cho-Ko-Nu
306 .1496 AD Pikeman
308 .1508 AD Catapult
316 .1538 AD Catapult
316 .1538 AD Catapult
316 .1538 AD Catapult
316 .1538 AD Maceman
333 .1589 AD Catapult
338 .1604 AD Catapult
338 .1604 AD Catapult
 
All the exciting stuff happens in the first spoilers for domination games so this will be pretty short, for me anyway:lol: , and boring. :sleep:

The war with Monte went very smooth except for the one time he snuck a horse archer onto one of my newly captured cities that was protected by a single Cho. He managed to take the city which I then took back the following turn. It was around this time that Saladin, the tech leader, got Feudalism. Guessing that Peter would get it also very soon I demanded all his money to limit upgrades and declared on him in 605AD. I quickly took a couple of cities before he started slowly upgrading to Longbows so I still got to face half archers. I had started splitting up my troops with new ones heading NE to take on HC and declared on him also in 635AD. I had done a really poor job of scouting him and usually had to guess where his cities were by the culture outlines. :blush:

I eliminated Monte in 650AD keeping all but 1 of his cities which was swarmed by the same English city I had skipped taking because of its strong culture earlier. The Inca also picked up Feudalism which really hurt as I thought I would be able to do more damage to them before they picked it up and was short on cats on that front. I further splintered my army by sending some of the new units towards Vicky and declared on her in 725AD which put me at war with everyone I knew except Saladin. She was very weak and her 4 cities fell as soon as I could get my units there. Other than the 1 religion founding city the rest of hers had no culture or wall bonuses, and her best defenders were still archers. I razed one of her cities as it was very poorly placed on the coast right next to another city so it would only pick up a handful of land tiles and I would need to build a settler for the rest of the nearby area anyway, but kept the others. Vicky was eliminated in 890AD the same year I declared on Saladin. I kept all of the Russian cities and Peter was eliminated in 920AD. I started whipping horse archers in all conquered cities as they were the only units who would be able to reach the front lines in time, and my own core cities were building settlers for filling in the gaps.

In 1040AD I switched to Caste System to run artists in the cities I was about to found and in captured ones to get the necessary land for domination. This had the added bonus of giving me 3 turns of anarchy, I didn't really need more production, I had around 400 gold in the bank but was losing 200 per turn and about to found a bunch of cities. During those turns I was able to get my gold up to around 900 and founded close to 10 cities and eliminated Saladin in 1055AD. I lost a ton of units to him as I had enough I didn't need to worry about knocking all his culture borders down but wanted to take him out as quickly as possible. Plus having them left over was just going to cost more cash anyway so losing a lot of my force was actually helpful as disbanding highly upgraded units is too painful.

When I came out of revolt I hired artists in all cities that could expand borders, and lots of merchants in the ones that wouldn't. At some point in time near the end I realized the Hanging Gardens was still available so I quickly built/chopped an aqueduct and HG the same turn I built 2 more cities and had 8 cities borders expand putting me over the domination limit. I thought I would need 1 more turn and was about to take the last of HC's big cities the next turn and he was willing to give me 1 of his last 2 cities in a peace agreement. I might have been able to take the city the turn before but figured I would wait to make sure, oh well. I had just enough gold for that turn but then was going to be on strike if I didn't take more cities.

So I got a domination win in 1112AD. I didn't really pay attention to the score until right at the end and whipped away lots of points for units that I probably didn't need, but the HG build bumped it up by around 40K.

The map gave lots of things to think about with very few being obviously the right/wrong thing to do, at least from my point of view going for domination, so a big :goodjob: to the maker.

Alex was in this game? I never met him.
 
Can someone summarise what the really good players did in the first 30 or 40 turns of this game? Clearly some of the superstars were already miles ahead of some of us by that point and I'd like to know what it is that they all did right.

While I am far from being one of the top people around here I posted a pretty detailed report of my starting decisions in the first spoiler thread. I know back when I was a way below average player the thing that helped me improve the most was I actually printed out detailed reports by the top players and after submitting my pathetic games I would go back and play following their moves as best I could. While I still couldn't duplicate how well they played I quickly went from way below average, to being competitive, to being able to pick up the occassional award. I also think one of the biggest things that helped me was deciding before I started the game what victory condition I would go for as it really helps guide your decisions. And lastly learning to trim out what is nice to have versus what is needed for the victory you are shooting for and what the game designers have done to mess up your plans.:lol:

How did you manage this? I got completely overrun by those barbaric barbarians.

Picture of how I handled them -
Spoiler :

fogbustingsz5.jpg

The red Xs are where I had units fortified. Once I placed my 3rd city SE of the capital I was able to remove one of the units down there and further strengthen my defenses N and W. The 2 spots that aren't on hills almost straight north and west of the capital had archers, the ones on hills were warriors, 2 of which had woodsman promotion.
 
Contender, Domination win, 1442 AD (if I remember correctly).

Pretty standard game, except that I skipped going for the Oracle when I scouted all the nice land that was available. Decided I would rather expand and grab some of those nice sites hoping I could catch up tech-wise anyway with all the cottages I had in mind.

I went for Monty first to get the Ivory, then England. After this the game was won, it just took a lot of time to convince the other AIs to surrender their land. :D
 
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