GOTM 44 First Spoiler - entering the middle ages

[eldar]

You're far from alone in stealing that iron

 

[Jove]

That's okay. I don't really want to keep all the fun for myself anyway

 

[Nata]

PTW Open.
Goal - 20K, if possible.

4000BC. Worker W. It's not fresh water .
3950BC. Babylon founded SW to get the most of the land.
Build: a warrior. Need to look around ASAP.
Research: Alpa. With this terrain not much need for Pottery.
Worker: mine.

3700BC. Start on Temple. Warrior explores.
3650BC. Warrior sees land East!

3300BC. Temple ready. Start on Colossus. Worker improves 2nd BG. We realize that we are on a tiny island. Should I try 20K still? I'll deside after Colossus and Great Library which would be useful anyway. Warrior sees more land South.

2900BC. Worker improving Wheat sees American Scout. He can give us Pottery for all our cash (58) and 1gpt. That's too much.
2800BC. Finally buy Pottery for 62g.
1950BC. Built Colossus.
1830BC. Built Settler to claim tiles North. Ur founded on isthmus. Research Wri at max. Need prebuild for GL. Ur builds Worker.
Built barracks and warrior in Babylon as have nothing to build. Start on Granary as prebuild for GL.
1475BC. learn Writing. Can trade it for Mysticism or Masonry, both give prebuild. Take Mysticism for Writing and 30g. Switch to Oracle.
Workers are chopping Forest North to hurry barracks in Ur.

1050BC. Learn Literature. Switch to GL - due in 21 turns. Get max from 6 tiles around Babylon. Research MM.

1000BC. Not much to report. 2 cities, 9 pop, 2 workers, 3 warriors. 2 barracks, 1 temple, 1 Colossus. 1 contact. Added Pottery, Alpha, Myst, Wri, Lit to the starting techs. MM in 17, GL in 21 when hopefully catch up.

825BC - India contacts us. They already know MM. Then Abby contacts: both want to trade for Lit. No way.
730BC - France and Korea contact us.
690BC - switch Ur's prebuild to Galley.
630BC - we got our 1st Galley! Weee, off we go!
570BC - land the Warrior on another shore!
550BC - Great Library built! Enter GA (why - it's only Science?) Trade Literature around for contacts and WMs. Know everybody and can see the world. The poor sods didn't even start on the top branch. Sigh. Math in 12, probably faster as Babylon builds library.

490BC. Damn! I miss Ivory by 2 turns: Greeks drop a settler there from a Galley, bypassing my blocking warrior.
410BC - Nineveh founded amidst Greek lands, a bit further then we planned.
370BC - Math learned, starting Constr.
350BC - Poly from GL.

290BC - difficult decision. I have Elite Galley (after couple of fights with Barb galleys) and I see Greece Reg. Galley in our borders.

According to my theory, the very first fight of the very first Elite against non-Barbs (with very few of other trrops) should give me the GL. And a shot at Heroic Epic in BC which can be 20K game breaker...

Should I attack and maybe get GL? Should I demand them to leave? What if they leave and I miss a chance?

270BC. I risked the war. Here it comes...
My Elite attacks Greece Regular and ... loses.
No chance for a GL now for a very long time, until I get a 2nd core and lotsa military.

Well, it wasn't that bad. After submitting this game I went back to 290BC save and attacked in the different turn, and won. And guess what - no GL. So much for my theory.
But probably you just can't get a GL from a sea unit. I saw a post about Gotm43 where someone said that he was even fighting with Elite ironclads to increase the chance of GL. I took it as if you can get a GL from ironclad, but probably you can just increase a chance of GL, and that's it.

I wonder if somebody can enlighten me on this subject. But now back to the story.

War with Greece.

2 Greek archers attacked Nineveh which had 2 reg. warriors on a Hill. One dies, one survives redlined. Next turn we grow to size 2 and I rush a Spearman. Then I ship two bowmen over, and then a settler to claim Iron near Sparta (as many others here). Spearmen is sent to pillage.

30BC - Oracle built. That does it - I'm going for 20K!
I won't break any record with this terrible start, but anyone who tries 20K will be in the same position, so it might be fun to see what others can make out of it.

50AD - Greek Galleys appear to be charmed. I loose another galley attacking theirs.
70AD - I make peace with Greece as Iron is claimed. I'll return with swords (or rather with MDIs) after connecting Iron.
110AD - Got Republic and Monarchy from GL, revolted and became Republic.

210AD - Korea offers Currency, WM and 17g for Republic. We agreed and we researched Construction the same turn, entering MA and drawing Feudalism.

Sell Construction to France who's the only one who can pay (160g), then to Korea for their remaing 1g. They get Monotheism. They trade it for Feud, WM and 100g. I switch harbour to Cathedral in Babylon - due same turn.
What next? Aqueduct or Colosseum, or MA Wonders?

That'll wait till next spoiler.

AA 20K summary:

Palace: 3950BC
Temple: 3350BC
Colossus: 1990BC
Great Library: 570BC
Library: 510BC
Oracle: 30BC
Cathedral: 210AD.

Attached: Elite galley thinking of attacking.

 

[eldar]

You can only get GLs from land battles anyway.

 

[brennan]

Nice to see a different approach: all the rest of us have been thinking get off island, kill, maim, pillage, destroy.

Aqueduct next, you'll seriously need the extra pop to build any more wonders.

 

[Sabre]

Another 20k attempt checking in. I've been having a lot of trouble finding time to finish games lately so I figured this was the perfect chance to get a quick win in, even if a medal is highly unlikely unless for lowest scoring victory.

I founded Babylon to the SW to get the hill. Of course there was a bg under that forest, but getting the hill was probably worth it anyway, especially as I eventually got that shield back. I started out with my temple right away, even before my first warrior. I could see that the land ended to the south and I figured I'd have plenty of warning if anyone approached from the north (heh) and could switch to a warrior or spear for defense. My next build was a warrior who very quickly discovered that we were small, safe and secluded. I decided Babylon was all I needed for the 20k win and proceeded with a Wonder run of Colossus (1990bc), Oracle (1200bc), Pyramids (430bc) and Great Library (400ad). My good fortune fell short at the Hanging Gardens where even my golden age had me miss by about 7 turns, handing me a pretty expensive Colosseum (530ad). I then rushed a Library (540ad) and my Cathedral (560ad). I did squeeze a harbor in there when I had a small gap in available wonders.

Tech wise I basically tried to keep a possible wonder on hand at all times and I wanted to time the Great Library as late as possible to boost my early MA production as I figured my little civ would really start to struggle by that point.

3300 - Pottery
2110 - Alphabet
1725 - Mysticism
1575 - Warrior Code (working towards Monarchy)
1400 - Masonry (needed the wonder build quick)
875 - Polytheism
370 - Writing (India for 99 gold)
370 - Map Making (India for wm, 140g)
50 - Monarchy
190ad - Literature
420ad - Wheel, Iron Working, Mathematics, Philosophy, Code of Laws, Horseback Riding, Currency, the Republic, Construction (Great Library)

My empire at 1000bc:

 

[solenoozerec]

Class: Open. Goal: Domination. 1st spoiler: 4000BC-330AD

I settled at the spot, built 4 cities on our island exactly like Gato Loco, Twonly, PaperBeetle and maybe Niklas (hard to see on minimap). I researched everything to get Map Making as soon as possible, I gained it on 1300BC.
In 1325BC I met Greece.
Because I did not know what to build I build The Colossus in 1025BC.
On 1000BC I researched CoL and my world looked like many others:

Major events after 1000BC:

875 We know everyone except Iroquois. Traded The Wheel, WC, IW, Mysticism and Masonry.

850 Philosophy.

800 Traded Horseback riding.

410 France - Pyramids.

350 Researched Republic revolted and stopped research (at this point I was planning to go for AAC). Become Republic.

290 Iroquis - Oracle.

10BC war on Greece.

10AD GA. I discovered that Greece has mideval infantry I underestimated warlord. I decided to cancel my AAC plans. Traded a few techs, but I still lack currency and construction.
Razed one of my own cities.

50AD Lost one city because I forgot about it :wallbush: Got WW.

250AD Greece - Great Library
Paris - Hanging Gardens.

280 Iroquis - Great Lighthouse (I guess they need it).

290 Lost a stack of six workers and Greece killed them

320 Captured Great Library (it took much longer than I thought).

330 Great Library gave its effect, we eneterd MA and also recieved Feudalism and Engeneering.
WW is large and I would be glad to make peace with Greece, but they ask a lot of gpt.
So I decided to revolt to Monarchy.
This is how we were progressing after 1300BC (there was no much progress before that date):

 

[DJMGator13]

The Standard Start
My start is very similar to everyone else’s. I move the worker west and see that there is no fresh water and that we are almost certainly on a small island. I then decide that getting off this frozen rock is a top priority. But I also realize that there is no value in building any warriors since it is doubtful we will have iron or horses on this ice prison. We are going to need to fight and fight as early as possible. So I start research at max towards Warrior Code so that I can build bowmen. I squeeze out the occasional settler and build a barrack first in those cities. I then concentrated solely on bowmen. I settle 3 other cities in 2800BC, 2390BC and 1550BC, using the standard pattern.

By 1000BC I have 2 spears to act as guards for my 13 bowmen and I have just a single worker. That was the limit of units I was allowed, so I build 2 temples & the Colossus (590BC) while waiting for Map Making, which I learn in 630BC. I use the Big Picture to switch two perfectly timed galley prebuilds, so I am now ready to start my invasion.

First Persian Grecian War (570BC to 370BC) [editted, thanks solenoorez]
By this time Greece has settled near the SW point but their city is only size 1, so my landing party bypasses that city and moves on to a larger target. I kick off my Despotic Golden Age in 490BC with the capture of Corinth. During this time I capture 4 cities and settle another on the SW tip to use as a port city.

First French War (170BC to 150AD)
I turn my attention to the French in 170BC and capture 5 cities by the end of the war. I also generate my first great leader, which I use to build a new palace in Delphi.

Intermission (150AD to 320AD)
I now take a break in the wars to get my new core up and running. This is how I end the Ancient Age in 320AD, with a new palace and several brand new barracks on the mainland. I have also switched from bowmen to building horses, although I actually only have 1 of them as the ages change. I am the first to the Middle Ages.

Here’s a look at my warring efforts thru 320AD.

 

[Axiomian]

errr...hi, my first post and first GOTM only having had Civ 3 a couple of weeks now, used to play Civ aaaages ago. Anyway I was just checking to see it was against rules to compare my final details against that of any others or is that against the rules? I've completed the game and 'seem' to be going ok in comparison. Even if I pm a regular member here so I can see how much I suck or if not then no drama I'll have to wait until the end of the whole shabang. Will submit my game now

 

[solenoozerec]

First Persian War

You must be kidding . Or is it a colour?

 

[DJMGator13]

Sorry, I meant Greeks. I went by the color when putting the spoiler together this morning. I finished the game yesterday.

 

[DJMGator13]

Anyway I was just checking to see it was against rules to compare my final details against that of any others or is that against the rules?

Welcome to the forums Axiomian

As you guessed you do need to wait for the other spoilers to open before talking about or comparing the rest of your game to other games.

 

[Axiomian]

No problem and thanks for the welcome DJMgator13.

Looks like youre realling giving those Greeks and French some stick there and although your picture doesn't show it I'm guessing the Indians too. I did likewise in that time period.

I notice there appear to be several tools available for Civ3, not that Im into anything remotely techo did you (and solenoozerec) use one of those to make those 'map through the ages' graphic or do you need some proficiency at some sort of graphics program in which I'm no chance.

 

[Niklas]

@Axiomian: The fantastic "map-through-the-ages" is by virtue of CivAssist II. By no means do you need any graphics skills, you only need to run CivAssist II while playing your game. Thanks Ainwood

 

[Xerol]

Submitting my game in a few minutes, didn't keep any notes, so here's the highlights.

First off, this is my first PTW GOTM. Despite certain balancings done by the staff, there IS a difference, but I'll go into this in the next spoiler.

Going for Low Score 20k.

Low score = less territory & population. Well, for 20k, my capital's gonna need all the pop it can get, but I can try to keep the # of cities to a minimum. Capital built Temple, Colossus, while researching full blast towards Literature. Met greek galley before getting lit, they didn't even have writing yet, so that was good. Got GL eventually, didn't get too many techs though, and had to self-research MM. After that I turned off research - the goals in this game are:

1) Slow down science. This means keeping the AIs at war whenever possible.
2) Getting those wonders myself. I really should have popped the palace over to Ur (which was the only settled city prior to the IA) and used it as a prebuild in Babylon, I might've been able to grab a few extra wonders this way.
3) Keeping the AIs from winning by any other means - this includes 100k and Domination.

The AA was generally uneventful, besides grabbing the Ivory a turn before Greece did. India was an early target, with Greece bearing down on them hard at the end of the Ancient era. Korea is behind, looks like they were crippled by an early war, so I might make them a target just to steal some territory from Greece - they're first in land, and unless kept in check will end up with Domination before I can get 20k - something I can't let happen.

 

[occam]

Different start!

Everyone seems to have dismissed this idea entirely (maybe it marks me as a newb) but I founded right on the wheat to the East. Yeah, you heard me, city on the special. You may suggest certain trade-offs -- but I will be close enough to flip cities if there is a continent in that direction. My weird starting location meant that the American scout didn't elude contact with me. Final argument: I wanted to maximize my sea squares and avoid city overlap, but ironically it adds a mainland grassland square to the land your island cities can reach.

I opened with that (temple, settler, then wonder) and 2 more cities on my island, researched to POLYtheism --which traded for all other techs and contacts, catapulting me from last in science to tied for first ... oh, and rich. Those techs included boats and I had settlers and production ready to drop a city on the north peninsula and one on the underbelly to the south. My science strategy had kept me too far off the continent to wrest control of any nice resources by settling, so I had consider the all-bowman force. Added a second city to the peninsula, flipped a Greek one, Monarchy arrives, and I am ready for that GA as the bowmen pour through Greece - starting with Sparta's iron.

Two important theorems about wonders:

1) The Great Lighthouse -- is valuable. With the missing Iroquois not on the pangea (you know from trading maps), the nation to reach them will have a valuable source of income from tech trading (island nations fall behind, as you well know) and then a contact to trade later perhaps. I am not saying you CAN reach them but it is worth the investment on this sort of map -- the strength of this wonder changes a lot. Add in the possible upside of other colonies (start that Forbidden Palace right now!) versus how annoying it is to dislodge island cities in the endgame, well I decided to go for it. Second best case in theory is the island nation gets it, contacts us and snaps up the islands. Worst case is a pangea nation gets it, prospers, and also has the island nation as mutual pact members in later ages to land troops on you from surprising directions.

2) The Great Library -- is weird. You don't need it because you can concentrate on one branch and hope to trade for the others if your timing works. But, it DOES matter who gets it. Looking from maps traded around and judging from the techs people acquire -- it seems that there are two nations that will need help to threaten you: Spain and Korea, and Korea is just too blighted to worry about. France is a researching machine in a great territory -- and America is along to fill in some of the gaps. Heck, even India can hang in there for a while. But if another nation is also researching techs, there will be no niche left for you to trade around. Therefore, the theorem is: if Spain gets the Great Library, you lose. France is fine. Not sure about India or America... someone needs to run simulations.

 

[Xerol]

[Whoops, thought I had Spoiler 2 open.]

 

[DJMGator13]

@Xerol - Wrong thread. This should be in the Spoiler 2 thread. I'm sure one of the Mods will move it, if you don't see it in time.

 

[tao]

1.29 Open

Just as Sabre, real life restrictions severely limit my Civ sessions. The interesting question for this game is the best strategy for 20k. Usually you devote your 2nd city to culture, thus your capital provides workers to join to the 20k city, serves for empire expansion, and the empire will make war to give Great Leaders for hurrying Great Wonders. And all the time The Palace is available as a pre-build.

Not so with this game and an OCC approach. No second city, no pre-build, no tech leadership, because you don't do this with one city. OTOH warlord means a reasonable good shot at the AA Wonders and little risk of agressive AIs.

The start
Worker west gives reason to assume an island start and indicates the tile sw to be best-suited for Babylon - started with a warrior build. We really soon learned to be alone and could concentrate on culture.

Early Contacts and Trades
I placed a warrior on the easternmost tile hoping for contacts. But the only ones showing up were the Greeks in ????: knowing pottery, warrior code, writing; lacking ceremonial burial; having contact with French and Indians.
Buy both contacts for cb, 10gpt, 97g; France gives masonry, 35g for mysticism; Greece gives 69g for mysticism, masonry; India gives 16g, warrior code, pottery for mysticism, masonry;
start min research on mathematics

1575BC: India gives contact w America, Korea for 73g
Korea gives wheel, 9g for masonry, ceremonial burial

690BC: Korea gives Spain contact, writing for mathematics, 32g
France gives literature, tm, for mathematics, wm, 6g
Spain gives map making, tm, 3g for math, literature, mysticism
Korea gives iron working, wm, 38g for literature, map making, tm (but Koreans only have tms of other civs)

Culture
Temple 3350BC, Colossus 1950BC, Oracle 1125BC, (410BC America completes Pyramids), Great Library 370BC starting despotic Golden Age, library 310BC, Great Wall 30BC - the year we enter the Middle Ages and get free monotheism.

Republic came from The Great Library 130BC and being religious I revolted immediately.

Closing remarks
This was a decent Ancient Age, but already the lack of a pre-build is looming on the horizon. We will hurry a cathedral next turn, but have nothing to prebuild for The Hanging Gardens and/or Sun Tzu's. Thus it is unlikely that we get both.

 

[Oryctolagus]

open
goal: diplomatic or space

I didn’t plan to fight offensive wars, only the "just" ones. I built Temples after Warriors in my new cities, because I didn’t want to see them flip to opponents. There were some mistakes I made (maybe I played too fast).
I settled in the starting location and sent the Worker W. As I expected, I started on a small island. So I started researching Alphabet at min for the first 5 turns (maybe too long) and then at 80 – 90% straight to Map Making (I had to build Wealth from time to time to keep the pace). Babylon built 2 Warriors, then a Settler, Temple and the Colossus, which was completed in 1550 BC. Ur was founded in 2900 BC in the southern Tundra. After the Colossus Babylon built a Settler, then Barracks, a Spearman, another Settler and Spearman, and then started on Granary (prebuild for Galley). I founded Nineveh on the northern Grassland. I had never played RCP (I had C3C already when I first heard about it) so I tried to do it now but I didn’t build the fourth city (after reading other spoilers here I think it was a mistake). I spared my third Settler for the Ivory land that I noticed E of my island in 3500 BC. Another mistake – I didn’t fortify any units on the Wheat, so I missed a chance of meeting other civs before Map Making.

In 1000 BC:

3 cities,
1 Settler,
1 Worker (I built one more but he joined Babylon in 1225 BC) ,
5 Warriors,
2 Spearmen,
researched Alphabet, Pottery and Writing, MM in 3 at 80%,
treasury - 1 gold, 0 gpt,
score – 72,
no civs met.

In 925 BC I discovered Map Making and started researching Philosophy. I switched granary in Babylon to galley which was completed next turn. In the same year a Sumerian galley appears N of Ivory; no contact with Gilgamesh
In 900 BC I dropped a Spearman and Settler NW of the Ivory. I saw more land to the E. The Galley started exploring along the S coast of what would appear the main continent. In 875 BC the Galley spotted a green border. I moved the Settler pair 1 E, and founded Ashur (850 BC), dispersing a Barb camp. It spoiled my RCP but I didn’t have to fight to get my 25 gold (the Warrior from the camp ran E). Started Harbor. The Galley passed Thermopylae but I forgot to talk to Alexander. Next turn I had contact with Gandhi as well. They were both up IW, Masonry, the Wheel, WC, Mysticism, Philosophy and CoL. I bought their TM’s. Then my Galley, threatened by the Ainu Barbarians, sailed to heal in Babylon. I contacted the French in 730 BC. In the same year I founded Elippi E of Ashur (I didn’t know where the Iron was so I didn’t steal it from the Greeks). In 670 BC I contacted the Spanish and bought their TM. In 550 BC I met the Koreans and bought contact with the Americans for WM and 19 gold. I sold my WM to Lincoln for the Wheel and 1 gold. No Horses in our borders. My second Galley, built in 470, started exploring SW.
In 110 BC I founded Akkad on the peninsula N of Spices (I was a little late to claim the nearby Horses and I didn’t want to annoy Alexander and Joan by aggressive settling), started Temple to claim 2 Whale tiles. The Galley that dropped the Settler there tried suicide run N but sank seeing no trace of land. In 90 BC Gandhi demanded WM, and 19 gold but I refused – he didn’t declare. Barbarians sank my second Galley in 10 BC.
In 280 BC I founded Uruk on a 1-tile island S of the starting island. We will see at least late Industrial Age!
I built the Lighthouse in Babylon in 70 AD. I wanted to find some land for my cities as the continent was already settled.
I self-researched Republic and revolted in 380 AD. In 390 I established an embassy in Athens.

I entered MA in 520 AD with 7 cities and tech parity with the others.

Techs self-researched:
Alphabet, Pottery, Writing, MM, Philosophy, WC (610 BC!), Masonry, IW, CoL, Republic, Mathematics, Polytheism.

Techs bought:
the Wheel (Korea), HBR (America), Mysticism (Korea), Literature (Greece), Currency (India), Construction.

Most techs were self-researched. I lacked money when I met other civs. I reached tech parity with others by the end of AA. I missed a few wonders (I thought I would be able to build a couple of them – it was Warlord!):
the Pyramids in 470 BC (Paris),
the Oracle in 370 BC (Athens),
GLib in 10 BC (Delhi),
the Great Wall in 10 AD (Paris).

My Galleys explored along the S coast of the continent avoiding raging Barbarians (thanks to the Lighthouse).