GOTM 45 Hunting tips

[ainwood]

Still interest in hunting tips (sorry I'm a bit late on this one )

If you feel that there is, then here is your chance to ask the questions that you want to ask of the elite players as they examine your progress in the game.

As always - please limit this to the ancient-age, and for the lurkers - please don't read this or download saves unless you've made it through the ancient age yourself.

 

[bio_hazard]

Ok- I'll be the first. Also- this is my first time trying attachments and hyperlinks so please be patient if my message doesn't work right the first time.

I already posted a synoposis of my AA defeat herehere

In brief, a single persian warrior destroyed my only city before 2000BC. The biggest mistake I made was not to switch production, but Moscow went into civil disorder that turn anyway so I'm not sure it would have made any difference...

Any feedback on this would be awesome. Here are some of my questions:

1) my build order was Scout-Scout-Warrior-Gran. Was this one too many scouts (considering I had already had an extra 1 for the conquest bonus)? It seemed like a big map and that the extra one might end up being pretty helpful, but maybe it was too much of a luxury?

2) Should I have tried to build a settler before the granary?

3) While 1 worker mined and roaded around Moscow, the other connected up the furs. I'm not sure how I missed this, but when Moscows cultural influence expanded, it didn't include the furs at all! I think i had him chop once up there to help speed the granary- should I have done something different (like chop a second forest somewhere, or make a colony, or forget the furs altogether and work on the spices)?

4)When I tried to replay this (not for submission), I got devestated by barb horsemen. It almost seems like you need a few archers just patroling (i've noticed scouts don't seem to work for this, since i had barb encampments pop up right next to them on the interturn).

5) was there anything I could have done with the extra $$ from the conquest bonus. I didn't have monarchy or republic yet, so not possible to rush anything, and it seems like it would come in pretty handy as venture capital for buying then trading techs...

Thanks a bunch!

 

[MeteorPunch]

1) my build order was Scout-Scout-Warrior-Gran. Was this one too many scouts (considering I had already had an extra 1 for the conquest bonus)? It seemed like a big map and that the extra one might end up being pretty helpful, but maybe it was too much of a luxury?

I ended up building 3 scouts in the very beginning and at least 5 total.

2) Should I have tried to build a settler before the granary?

I would only do this if there was food bonus nearby. There wasn't, so no.

3) While 1 worker mined and roaded around Moscow, the other connected up the furs. I'm not sure how I missed this, but when Moscows cultural influence expanded, it didn't include the furs at all! I think i had him chop once up there to help speed the granary- should I have done something different (like chop a second forest somewhere, or make a colony, or forget the furs altogether and work on the spices)?

I would've just had workers working around Moscow and not bothered the luxuries until later.

4)When I tried to replay this (not for submission), I got devestated by barb horsemen. It almost seems like you need a few archers just patroling (i've noticed scouts don't seem to work for this, since i had barb encampments pop up right next to them on the interturn).

I had lots of problems with these too. I lost count of how many workers I lost, but something like 6-7 workers, gold, population, and production pillaged from my towns.

5) was there anything I could have done with the extra $$ from the conquest bonus. I didn't have monarchy or republic yet, so not possible to rush anything, and it seems like it would come in pretty handy as venture capital for buying then trading techs...

You could research at 100% or use it in trading.

 

[Obormot]

I think that depends on HOW you want to win the game.
If you want a SURE win - then you need to build at least some warriors or even spears, but in competitions such as GOTM people usually take risks during early expansion and go for a strict "farmer's gambit" to get a higher score. If you wanted a higher score then i see nothing wrong with your start, i would have propably done something similar. Things like that happen sometimes, but not really very often.

PS: I didn't post a spoiler cause i decided not to play this game, so there is nothing wrong with me viewing this thread.

 

[denyd]

My build order was scout-scout-spear-settler and spear was a mistake as I had planned on building an archer and must have misclicked. I sent my settler to the spices and used them to keep the lux slider to zero.

My thoughts on number scouts depends on map size and starting location. Once I realized that we were in a corner and that two of the four primary directions were dead ends (except for barbarians), I went with 2 long distance scouts, with one heading SE & one SW. The third scout was originally planned to discover the local area and then head either straight west or straight south, but once my first 2 had covered most of that land he ended up checking out the eastern tundra and then wandering around Persia, Japan and China before heading home. He was the only one to survive the barbarians. A hut popped warrior managed to cover the NE area before he got there, so he probably was the least productive of my scouts.

As for the barbarians, my plan was simple, keep the treasury small and stay out of their way until either horses or swords showed up. Also to let any uprisings decimate themselves stealing small amounts of gold. When the AA end barb explosion occurred, I spent all but 35g of my 700+ treasury on building embassies and buying AI workers and let the 30-40 barbarian horsemen perform their lemming leap into Yakustk (my furs city). I did loses 1 archer & 2 scouts to the barbs, but those were exceptable losses considering what could have happened.

As for your Persian warrior conquest, one thing I've learned is that even as low as Regent, an undefended capital is a temptation that the AI will snap at too many times to risk it. Even a single warrior as an MP probably would have prevented the AI from even sending anything but scouting units that direction.

As for the riot, check out either CivAssist or the CRP MapStat (both available in the Utility Forum) could have popped a red flag to prevent the riot. Check them out, they'll save a lot of time and headaches in the future.

 

[bio_hazard]

Thanks for all the feedback everyone (and keep it coming!)

Sounds like i could have used my workers better and maybe put out an additional unit, but it was also partly bad luck (at least at Monarch level)

@Denyd-I think I did have a reg warrior in Moscow, but as that was my only military unit, I'm sure I wasn't exactly intimidating...
Also- I'm running on a mac, so I don't think the Java version of Mapstat has the riot warning flag. I always forget about checking the F1 screen and without fail my cities grow and riot. I should probably quicker to use the lux slider...

 

[klarius]

You had a few moves in your early game, but that has absolutely nothing to do with your loss.
Letting the capital riot is not really good and you also chopped a forest for no gain.

The general sequence is well within the band of what is suited for this map and very similar to what I did.

Your questions:

1) Nothing wrong with that. Generally first build as many scouts as you think you can afford w/o slowing expansion on a pangaea.

2) Settler or granary first are both possible options at this position. There is nothing that would force you one way or the other here.

3) Because you had a free worker you could afford to road the furs for a future city, though this wasn't urgent. Chopping the forest was wrong, because the forest wasn't going into the build. Chops outside the 21-tile city area are wasted.
There was no forest in the city area so chopping a different forest was no option.
Best build more roads, especially to the planned next city.
A colony this early would be nonsense. You don't need a lux this early, but you will need tile improvements for your next cities soon.

4) Playing vanilla, where the barbs are coming straight for you, you really should look to get rid of the camps in your vicinity. A couple of archers is typically enough on monarch to control them. If you missed a camp and get a large barb stack during the uprise, you best let them pillage a size one undefended city.

5) Looks like you traded already for everything out there. So no, there wasn't anything to do with your money.

 

[Megalou]

Yes, you did have a warrior in Moscow. I'm concerned that this bad luck will lead you in the wrong direction if you start building spearmen or warriors AI-like. I've not lost a GOTM since GOTM14 and I've certainly taken bigger chances than having one foreign warrior walk past my defended capital.

Typically, I build early warriors on two occasions:

* in the capital as a non-expansionist civ for exploration.
* in core towns, typically when I want a worker but the core town is making too many shields. If the core town makes 2 shields per turn and 2 food per turn, warrior-worker is my most common build order.

Other tips I've noticed might work:
* You will not pop barbs if you have no military.
* If an AI acts suspicious, ie enters your territory, move your military closer to him - don't let them stay in the towns as MP. I have a feeling that if the intruder feels personally threatened, he will be deterred. Even if he has time to cause havoc in your civ, his personal survival instinct could stop him.

 

[bio_hazard]

Thanks again! I always assumed that chops would go to your closest city even it was outside the city radius. Live and... er well, at least learn.

I think its probably all the little details like this and not MM enough that have kept me at Monarch and below.