GOTM 55 first spoiler - entering middle ages

[ainwood]

GOTM 55 First Spoiler

To qualify for this spoiler, you must have reached the middle ages.

This spoiler is restricted to your initial expansion and events on your home island/continent. You must have a full map of your home continent, and contact with at least one other civ.

Feel free to post about any experiences in the ancient-age, including any world events that affect your continent - but please do not discuss or show screenshots of anything off-continent (ie. don't show galley paths or other landforms etc).

Was your starting location suitable for you to get a good start in this deity game?

 

[Ansar]

I went to 710 BC, and quit... continued on!

1.4000 BC
settle on spot. Pottery seems like a good tech to have. worker to cow.

2.3950 BC
worker roads cow.

4.3850 BC
worker finishes road, road ->irrigate cow.

5.3800 BC
warrior finishes, also worker finishes irrigating. warrior heads west, and worker heads toward the bg. Paris warrior -> warrior.

9.3600 BC
worker finishes road ->mine BG. warrior spots nothing but plains...

10.3550 BC
Paris warrior(MP) -> barracks, as prebuild for granary. culture borders expand to rank 2(10-99).

12.3450 BC
worker finishes on BG. heads toward wines. warrior still finds nothing...

13.3400 BC
worker starts roading wines. warrior sees yellow borders. it is the great Cleopatra!

15.3350 BC
English scout pops south of Paris during the interturn, I say, "what up Liz?" , also Pottery done, going for Writing. Trade with Liz and what?!, Liz doesent seem to have anything but a mere 10 gold, and I have masonry.

16.3300 BC
worker finishes roading -> mining wines.ooh, but Cleoegypt has some nice things, so we trade her bronze and ceremonial burial + 10 gold pieces for my Alphabet. "nice trading with you Cleo", I says.

And thats when Joan got tired of writing a turnlog and thought it was silly and stupid to post a turnlog of a GOTM. So she decided to take quick notes. The granary finished in 3000 BC. Also, in 2670 BC, we spotted a English pair headed for our land, so decided to attack, and we succeeded with +2 slaves. 5 turns later, after surviving 3 warriors by building a spearman and delaying our expansion, we managed to make peace at their knowledge of WC + 10 gold for our knowledge of building temples. Soon, we realized we had crippled England and decided in the future, we would get rid of them , since by the exploration charts done by our warriors, it seemed we were on a island with Liz. So it should be good bye Liz, and hello to the whole French island. Magnifique, this is! And that damn Cleopatra, she probably has a whole continent to herself with the other civilizations. Oh, and Orleans started a prebuild for our soon to be French Great Library, located in Orleans, France. Unfortunately, in 875 BC, the Greek city of Delphi had built the Great Library, and Joan de Arc stumbled to the floor and cried. Im not ready for Deity level, im sure...

 

[Ansar]

I know its silly quitting after the GL was built, but I was way behind in tech. Liz was crippled, though, after the battle, she hasnt built any more cities, so I could probably make lots of troops and take over her 1/2 of the continent.

EDIT: Pictures attached.



In 570 BC, I trade wines for HBR + 21 gold. "Yes!" Joan of Arc said when the deal was struck, the invasion of England would soon begin, after France became a monarchy and French troops wreaked havoc on England. Finally in 530 BC, Monarchy is researched and France revolts on a 4 turn anarchy period. Monarchy is still not sold. In 450 BC, Egypt declared war on Japan. "AI-AI wars, this is a great moment indeed", Cleopatra thought. And on the same year, France became a Monarchy. Finally in 350 BC, France traded Monarchy around and the whole world became different... ( Middle Ages reached : 350 BC.)

-should I post a updated pic of the world?-

 

[candaboy]

I came. I saw. I died a horrable death. Archers Can NOT beat Knights!!!!

 

[azzaman333]

I came. I saw. I died a horrable death. Archers Can NOT beat Knights!!!!

If my sig wasnt border-line limit, id stick it there.

I am 3-4 techs out of the MA, but everyone else is in them. Met England early, before i learnt Pottery but only 2 turns left. Wasnt worth it. Built a settler in Paris, then a granny for a 4-turner. Am building an army to attack my buddy Liz, mostly horses. I hate not having iron though... Mr. Green learnt Lit very early, preventing a monopoly. I doubt i will win, but if i kill a Deity AI ill be happy.

 

[Più Freddo]

Open class, trying to win.

Entered the Middle Ages in 925 BC with 15 cities. Spoiler follows.

 

[Taxpayer'sMoney]

It was 4000BC and the nation of France stood at the dawn of its magnificence. Yet even in its infancy, the glorious path to dominance was clear. After a short journey south-west Paris was established in 3950BC. It was surrounded on all sides by nature's bounty - the vineyards that quenched the thirst of noble men, the cattle that filled the belly of a hungry France, and the surging river that ran with gold.

Paris sent forth its finest men to civilise the wild lands to the north, east, south and west. In these new towns were built the armies that would enforce the enlightened policy of our most exalted leader. But they were not savages, rather men trained in the art of war in the world's finest military schools.

In 3150BC, Orleans was built on the shores of a great lake. Then, in order that the arms of France should spread wider than the sky above, and faster than the howling wind, huge structures were built in Paris to store the nation's food.

In 3600BC we came across a strange people, who came from a barbaric place they named England. We were appalled by their ugly dentures, and confused by their desire to wait in lines and talk of the weather. Our leader swore a silent oath that the scab of England should be removed from the earth. For now, we would attempt to civilise them by teaching them masonry in exchange for pottery and 10 pieces of gold.

The first priority of the nation's greatest thinkers was to bend the powers of numbers to their will. As masters of numbers they would build dread machines to reign terror on their enemy. For the words of that most educated of men, Robespierre, echoed in their ears: "Terror without virtue is disastrous; virtue without terror is powerless". It was not until 2150BC that the secrets of mathematics were prised from their hiding place by the iron will of French intellect. However the supremacy of French thought was never in doubt, since the heathen English knew nothing of primes, and were terrified by the infinite. As an act of charity the French taught them these secrets for which the English gratefully explained bronze working, their warrior code and gave France two of their gold pieces.

In 2310BC the might of France extended further still with the settlement of Lyons. The location of the city (West of Paris) was met with some puzzlement. This puzzlement was met with stern looks and instruments of torture. Never again would the French people question the authority of its leadership.

The empire flourished as Rheims was built in 1950BC, and Tours quickly followed in 1750BC. Rheims was placed on the coast such that French influence might span the oceans, while Tours was built where cattle roamed to feed a burgeoning nation.

In 1725BC contact was established with the Egyptians. They tired the French with their talk, so they gave them maths for ironworking and four gold in the hope that their harsh language should offend French ears no longer.

In 1675BC the French leader's great wisdom was finally confirmed, for the English demanded three gold in tribute. They had eventually been exposed as the evil brutes our leader had long suspected them to be. Many expected that the French would purge the English from existence, but the miltary, although well trained, was small. And the English had bred like the dogs they were, such that their army was numerous. It is oft' said among those schooled in these matters that one Frenchman is worth four-score English. True though this may be, the French elite were wise enough to know that the path to power does not always follow the sword. Tribute was paid, and a solemn vow remembered. ELizabeth was told to spend her gold well, for when the French decide to claim it back much interest would be due (and the French had the log tables to prove it).

Expansion continued for in 1600BC Marseilles was built on the coast, north east of the vineyards. And in 1525BC Chatres was established north of Paris next to the nation's second river.

By 1175BC French minds had devised a whole new system to manage the exchange of goods and services. They called it currency, and it would allow this wealthy nation to reach its full potential. Again the French scholars were far advanced of their pitiful rivals and they spread their new system to all. So awed by this means of exchange were the Scandanavians that they offered all they had to learn its subleties - the wheel, cerimonial burial, writing and twenty three gold pieces. Egypt bestowed upon France myticism, philosophy, horseback riding and four gold because camels do not make a good medium of exchange, for they are sullen creatures that can spoil a good barter with an ill-judged spit in your business partner's eye. Greece had only map-making to offer plus forty seven gold, but France, in her infinite charity, gave them currency. The English would only give code of laws and twelve gold, refusing to teach France construction for fear that they might actually build something more beautiful than they.

1125BC saw the erection of Avignon on the northern coast. And Bescancson was built further north up the coast in 1000BC. Thus ended the great period of expansion of the French empire. Scholars have later called this childhood of France, the Quick Start Challenge.

The only blemish on this fruitful period for the French was the lack of access to iron. Without this precious metal they could not develop the army of swords and knights they so desired. But, although France was not blessed with mineral wealth, it was blessed with a strong, wise and determined leader. The French scholars were tasked with bringing their nation's enemies to their knees with advanced theories, and unparalled technology.

The annals of history have now become clogged with revisionist propoganda on the errors of the French leadership during this period. They claim that the inability of Paris to send forth its settlers more regularly was due to poor planning, and that a nation with just one worker could never flourish. These disrespectful documents make the incredible claim that the French were afraid to fight the English, and would suffer because of it. However these worthless papers were not written by the enligthened French and can therefore be ingnored. For history is written by the winners, and only lies spring forth from the lips of losers.

In a rare find historians have discovered plans, made by the French, for the years following 1000BC. In it the French explain how they plan to settle the lands to the East, to tame the horses south-east of Marseilles and to launch a short term military campaign against the English to capture the settlers invading their territory and the town of Nottingham. These fascinating documents even show the mercy of the French for they planned to sue for peace once these objectives were achieved.

QSC Stats

9 towns, 30 popn
72g @ -5gpt
All AA techs except Literature, Construction, Republic, Monotheism & Polytheism
7 turns till literature
13 archers, 3 warriors, 5 catapults, 1 worker
One tech behind (everyone else has construciton)

Paris 3950BC (come visit the vineyards)
Orleans 3150BC (splish, splash! Come on in the water's lovely)
Lyons 2310Bc (take a hike through the beautiful forests)
Rheims 1950Bc
Tours 1750Bc
Marseilles 1600BC
Chatres 1525BC
Avignon 1125BC
Besancon 1000BC

[Does anyone have a rule of thumb to calculate how much pain you need to do to an enemy civ before you can sue for peace? E.g. if kill x units, raze y towns and wait z turns can sue for peace.]

 

[Ansar]

I am 3-4 techs out of the MA, but everyone else is in them. Met England early, before i learnt Pottery but only 2 turns left. Wasnt worth it. Built a settler in Paris, then a granny for a 4-turner. Am building an army to attack my buddy Liz, mostly horses. I hate not having iron though... Mr. Green learnt Lit very early, preventing a monopoly. I doubt i will win, but if i kill a Deity AI ill be happy.

I think what helped me was the crippling of England early game, though once I saw the world map, I was freaked out! England had way more cities than expected, I should have checked England in the F4 Screen.

 

[azzaman333]

I only had 2-3 warriors when i saw an english warrior-settler, so an attack was definately not on the cards then

 

[Ansar]

I made some settlers before Granary cause granary would have slowed my down too much. I had about 4-5 warriors and 2 towns when I attacked a warrior-settler pair.

Do I have to post a updated world map?

 

[Abegweit]

Predator

Synopsis: great leader luck in a game that didn't need it.

I planted Paris on the spot and naturally made a settler factory. I soon learned that we were badly hemmed in the English so I planned the game around early war. Six cities were built at RCP 3 around the capital with a partial ring at RCP six. They all went on barracks duty, followed by horses.

In 1375 BC I got a monopoly on Currency and traded it around for tech parity and all the money (over 500g in the kitty at that point). I had about 10 horsies at that point. I wuold have liked to wait about one turn more for war but Lizzie had about seven troops in my territory so I demanded she leave and she declared war.

In 1150 BC I got a leader and used it to used rush the Great Library. I was just twelve turns from finishing Republic but stopped research anyway. Two turns later, the GL delivered Monarchy, Construction and Engineering and I entered the ME.

In 1050 BC London fell, and with it the Pyramids. The following year Toko declared war and I got a second leader who was used to rush the FP in London. That was around my 10th elite victory.

QSC stats:
855g 61gpt
19 cities (14 hand-built, 5 captured), pop 55
9 workers, 11 slaves, 1 settler
15 horsemen, 2 warriors, 2 galleys
all AA techs – Republic + Engineering
all contacts, all embassies and a world map
19 Granaries, 6 Barracks
Great Library, Pyramids, Forbidden Palace

 

[Htadus]

COTM 55 Open Domination or Conquest.

4000BC Settled on the spot after worker moved to hill nw to discover 2 more BG and started to research Writing at 20% for 40 turns. Started on warrior
3750BC Worker complete irrigation and road to cow. Build War and Start War. War go south.
3650BC War find incense for settlment. Worker road wine.
3600BC Meet england and trade Masonary for Pot and 10g.
3550BC Worker complete road and start mine. Paril B>War S>Settler
3200BC Paris B>Settler, S>War. England build a city next to the Cow to SW. Settler heading to Claim incense.
3000BC Est. Orleans to claim Incense. S>War. Paris B>War, S>Grainary. War to south find Silk.
2950BC We can see Alexandria but no one to contact.
2900BC Meet Cleo and trade Alpha and Pot for CB, WC, BW and 10g.
2850BC Worker complete mining and Roading BG N of Paris and move to chop a forest.
2590BC Paris B>Grain, S>War. There are 3 silks to south.
2430BC Paris Settler Factory is up and running. B>Settler, S>worker English and Egypt are building Pyramids and England is building Colossus.
2310BC Paris B>Worker, S>Settler. Worker to Road to Orleans.
2270BC Est Lyons to West of Paris.
2190BC England Gave us Marching Orders. IBT we learn Writing and start on Philo in 17 turns. I am quit sure we learned writing before any one else.
2150BC Paris B>Settler, S>War. Est. Embassies with Cleo (20 tuns for Pyramids) and Eliz (26 turns).
1990BC Traded writing around and ended up getting HBR, Myst, IW and contact with Japan. Japan know Greece but wont trade.
1870BC Paris B>Settler, S>Barracks
1750BC Tours is founded on Horse east of Paris.
1700BC Paris Changed to Settler
1675BC Paris B>Set, S> War. All other Cities will Build War and Barracks for Future Army.
1650BC We learn Philo but do not get the Sling. Lerning Math.
1625BC Paris B>War, S>Wor. We trade philo around to get all available techs and contacts. It is almost time to get the military going.
1575BC Establish Marseilles on the coast NW of Paris
1450BC We lost math race and buy from Japan and Start on Currency.
1375BC Est Chatres NE of Paris.
1150BC Egypt lands 2 War next to Tours. We tell Cleo to Leave and she DOW on us.
1125BC Archer and a horse take the two War out. Establish Besancon to NE of Chatres.
1050BC Egypt lands 2 War next to Chatres. Archer took out one. Pull back the Spear heading to Besancon. Est Rouen NE of London.
1000BC Last Egyption Warrior was distroyed by Horseman.

9 Cities
1 grainary
3 Barracks
1 Temple
7 Workers
10 reg War
2 reg and 9 vet Archers
5 reg and 2 vet Spears
1 Vet Horse
Missing CoL, Lit, Const, Poly, Monarchy and Republic. 3 turns to Curr. Hoping to get monopoly.

Hope we can fight on two fronts.

950 BC We learn Curr and trade around to get all but gov techs and Lit. Peace w/Egypt for nothing, so no need for two fronts. Enter Middle age. Start on Engineering. Greece has Feudalism.

 

[Abegweit]

We learn Philo but do not get the Sling. Lerning Math.

There is no sling in vanilla.

 

[Htadus]

@Abegweit. Thank you. Now I know I am not completely going crazy. Just partially know the game.

By the way, your QSC data is absolutely impressive.
How did you manage to get that many town? Does RCP 3 mean you build cities on the 3rd tile from the capitol? CxxC?

 

[Abegweit]

By the way, your QSC data is absolutely impressive.

Thank you. I believe it’s the best start I’ve ever had. Part of it is luck, of course. Getting the Pyramids and the two leaders was far from automatic. OTOH, it wouldn’t have happened if I hadn’t played the game the way I did. It’s also silly, IMO, that the Pyramids is counted as a granary for each city, but I didn’t make up the rules; Cracker did.

How did you manage to get that many town?

There’s no real magic about it. I simply set up a settler factory in the capital and started pumping out cities. It's very important to finish this as fast as possible. I forget when precisely I finished the factory, I believe 2950BC. In any case, Orleans was founded in 2710BC. Then one more city comes out every four turns. Next all new cities do nothing but build workers and military. With an industrious civ, you don’t need many of the former. In general I built military in my ring three cities and workers in ring six. Six inner ring cities = six barracks. Then, when you have enough military, strike! That’s it.

Does RCP 3 mean you build cities on the 3rd tile from the capitol? CxxC?

Not quite. This refers to distance three from the capital. The game counts distance as 1.5 along a cardinal axis and 1 along a diagonal. Thus, on a diagonal, it’s CxxC and on a cardinal it is CxC. I’ve attached an image of my game for an illustration. The numbers are rounded down so if Marseilles had been built one to the north, it would also be at distance 3.

The main reason why this is important is because of a quirk in the Vanilla corruption model. All cities built at the same distance have the same corruption. Thus all six of my inner ring cities only have 10% corruption. Even the outer ring is quite decent, about 34% in Republic.

Note that I was lucky that two English cities, Coventry and Nottingham were built in my outer-ring. Hastings was built at distance 7, which is why I have it building a settler; it will have to be moved. The plan is to move it to the north-east and squeeze another city in between it and Nottingham.

One other hint: in vanilla trade for maps every turn. You will be astonished at the amount of money you make this way.

Edit: you can recognise the inner ring cities in the image easily enough. They're the ones training horsies

 

[Più Freddo]

Open class, trying to win

I moved the Worker west and decided to settle in place. The Worker
roaded and then irrigated the Cattle tile, then moved on to a Bonus
Grassland which it roaded and mined, then to a forest which was cut
towards the Granary in Paris only to reveal another Bonus Grassland
which was also roaded and mined. At this time the Granary was finished
-- a Warrior and one turn of Wealth had preceeded it -- and next a
Worker was produced which irrigated and then roaded one of the Wine
tiles. The first Worker roaded and irrigated a Plains tile with which
the Four-Turn Settler Factory was completed.

4000 BC 00 Found Paris
2800 BC 24 Connect Wines
2750 BC 25 Four-turn Factory Operational
2710 BC 26 Found Orleans
2670 BC 27 Four-turn Factory Complete
2550 BC 30 Found Lyons
2390 BC 34 Found Rheims
2190 BC 39 Found Tours
2030 BC 43 Found Marseilles
1790 BC 49 Found Chartres Equality with England
1675 BC 53 Connect Horses
1575 BC 57 Found Besancon Equality with Egypt
1500 BC 60 Found Rouen
1450 BC 62 Connect Incense
1400 BC 64 Found Grenoble London finishes the Pyramids
1275 BC 69 Found Dijon
1225 BC 71 Found Amiens
1175 BC 73 Capture Nottingham​

I decided to go for monopolies and started researching Mathematics at
100%. In retrospect a bit optimistic, I shaved off only three turns
compared to minimum research. On average I managed to keep research at
79.7% during this time. Luckily I could trade for Pottery in time,
meeting England in 3500 BC. After Mathematics I went for Currency on
minimum, which turned out to be 8.75%: I preferred to lose some coins
and win population growth to assigning a Scientist. In 1450 BC I had a
Scientist in Orleans and between 1175 BC and 1050 BC I had one in
Paris.

Judging from the success of Abegweit I started my war on England too
late, but still managed to grab one city before 1000 BC. I was also
slow in learning Horseback Riding. It simply wasn't available. The
disadvantage of the late attack would present itself in 1025 BC when the
Great Wall was completed in London! That's a hard nut to crack without
Iron.

3500 BC 10 Meet England
3500 BC 10 Learn Pottery
3400 BC 12 Meet Egypt
3400 BC 12 Learn Ceremonial Burial
3400 BC 12 Learn Bronze Working
2900 BC 22 Learn Warrior Code
2270 BC 37 Learn The Wheel
2270 BC 37 Learn Mysticism
2270 BC 37 Discover Mathematics
2190 BC 39 Learn Iron Working
1525 BC 59 Learn Writing England has Map Making
1275 BC 69 Learn Map Making
1200 BC 72 Learn Philosophy
1200 BC 72 Embassy England Great Wall in only 7 turns!
1200 BC 72 Embassy Egypt Great Wall in 19 turns
1200 BC 72 War England We declare and attack with 5 Archers, 2 Spearmen and 1 Catapult. Four Slaves captured.
1150 BC 74 Learn Horseback Riding
1100 BC 76 Meet Scandinavia
1100 BC 76 Meet Japan
1100 BC 76 Meet Greece
1100 BC 76 Learn Code of Laws
1075 BC 77 Discover Currency
1075 BC 77 Learn Construction
1050 BC 78 Peace England IBT
1050 BC 78 War England IBT
1025 BC 79 War Egypt Alliance with England
0925 BC 83 Learn Polytheism from the Japanese
0925 BC 83 Enter Middle Ages​

The Quick Start Challenge statistics were the following:

14 Cities
47 Citizens
2 Luxuries
1 Resource
5 Contacts
9 Workers
5 Slaves
2 Catapults
14 Warriors
7 Archers
2 Horsemen
3 Spearmen
2 Galleys​

Lacking Polytheism and the three optionals in the Ancient Age. Having
pretty much a World Map.

And that completes the voting of the Più Freddoze jury.

 

[Abegweit]

Judging from the success of Abegweit I started my war on England too late, but still managed to grab one city before 1000 BC. I was also
slow in learning Horseback Riding. It simply wasn't available. The disadvantage of the late attack would present itself in 1025 when the Great Wall was completed in London! That's a hard nut to crack without Iron.

Yeah. The luck of the draw. I got Pyramids. You got the Wall.

Don't be afraid of tackling London with 2-attack units though. They certainly can do the job. 7 archers and 2 horses should be enough. According to Offa's calc, they will win 98% of the time against 2 defenders and 88% against three. I don't believe that there's more than that in London. The alternative to this is to try something off-island. You certainly can't plod through each city one at a time.

 

[Più Freddo]

The luck of the draw. I got Pyramids. You got the Wall.

I did get the Pyramids in London, too, and then the Great Wall! But I didn't get to trade for Horseback Riding in time. Had I established the Embassy earlier and seen what was going on I might have had a chance to circumvent Elisabeth's devlish plans. Or simply react faster on the Pyramids. But I wasn't confident enough to attack on Deity at that time. What if she had built troops instead of another Great Wonder?

Don't be afraid of tackling London with 2-attack units though. They certainly can do the job. 7 archers and 2 horses should be enough. According to Offa's calc, they will win 98% of the time against 2 defenders and 88% against three. I don't believe that there's more than that in London.

I'm not so sure. Did you consider that London is built on a Hill? I used the combat calculator Windows application from some thread here and came to rather sad figures.

 

[Abegweit]

No. I didn't realise that it was on a hill. Even so, check out Offa's calc. It's still gives good figures.

 

[Wardancer]

Open - trying to win
Well first of all - fantastic job Abegweit. That is a fantastic first spoiler and good masterclass in the benefits of taking control of a deity map. My game hasn't gone as well.

Again I didn't take any notes or make any saves as I played through the first part of the game so I can't do much of a spoiler.

Early plays
My start was much the same as Piu's although I actually got my 4 turn settler factory up even earlier with my second town being settled in 2630bc (or so Mapstat viewer informs me). I ran the settler factory throughout the QSC period ending it with 16 towns (15 settled and 1 flip to me! - had to remove the attached screenshot showing this as it included the minimap showing the other continent ).

I settled a ring at 4, then semi rings at 6 and 9. I also settled 3 towns at the south of the Island giving me the iron, horses and furs down there. Unfortunately it took me far to long to connect these.

Research goes ok
Research wise I did my usual Deity route of Maths, currency (both as monopolies) then poly to trade for COL and then republic. Forget exactly when I achieved this but think it was pretty quick overall.

Military
Wars were a disaster. First of all I was too slow. When I did start my first war it was with a primary goal of getting great leaders (i.e. to rush FP's, Pyramids e.t.c.) with capturing English cities being only a secondary objective. Unfortunately, as a result of general incompetence the plan completely failed. I didn't get a leader and eventually got bored and decided to kill the English anyway.

Due to further incompetence that didn't go too well either but I am moving into second spoiler territory.

Future plans
Being Deity and having good land I have decided I will go for a cavalry based domination. The land in the core is insanely powerful and my core is nicely developed so i think powering up to MT ahead of the AI ought to be quite easy. Then a combination of the golden age, min research, tech trick and the disconnect/reconnect strat ought to give me easily enough cavs to overrun the alpha continent and power to a moderately early dom. Lets see how it goes.