GOTM50 spoiler thread

[Peaster]

Why did the AI make a spaceship against EmperorGandlaf but not Uruwashi ? Maybe because Uruwashi was pounding them into dust? Or is the AI programmed to compete that way to make it more interesting?

@Ali - Are you playing mainly for score? Do you mind telling us approx where you are now (eg your citizen score, or your population) ? Are you still in monarchy?

Most of my stats are already public. I did not try very hard to maximize my score, but I did build some unnecessary wonders at the end, and adjust the lux rate, etc... things I usually don't even think of.

 

[URUWASHI]

Ali , I had the same problem. The Chinese my allies....
Peaster..I just read your Post..yes the Chinese had started the Ship
After conquering the Indians, I send all my settlers in Europe and Asia to the Gobi desert / Northen India , and built railroads from every city , converging in 3 Chinese cities, ( Dongzhou, Xinjian and Chengdu ) during that time,
bult howitzers ( 59 ) ,Armor (62 ) Spys ( 30 ) and Stealth Bombers (15 )in every European, African and Indian city then move all the armies to cities near the chinese border.To Dakkra, Dehli , Calcutta and Lahore , since the Indians had built SAM's and SDI defenses in those cities
My goal was to take Nanjin the Chinese capital and stop the production of the Ship.
I sent spys to every chinese city.
The Chinese according to my spy reports ,had Nuclear Missiles in 3 cities so my goal was to take this 3 cities first
Attacked from the 3 fronts all at once.
That turn alone took me almost 1 hour and 30 minutes to play, The government keep scaping, from city to city but at the end was one small city left that I took the next turn.
It was a hard game, but it was worth it!!
Good Game !!

 

[URUWASHI]

Pester..good Point.
I am not playing for the points, I just want to win the game, surely as I learn about WHAT and HOW I get extra points maybe I will ...I am a newbie here.I just want to have a challenge, I am not good about getting the extra 20/50 points....thats for the judges to decide, I do not know the system..maybe I will get good at it ...
Does Capitalization works in my advantage ?? Increasing People Taxesto 100% ?? Building Colliseums ???
I do not care about winning the gold medal...just competing against the best players in the world , that makes me feel very, very good.
This is like a skating medal in the winter Olympics..LOL, shoud having a spotless reputation count ??? The points are based in someone's mathematical algorithms....Am I getting $ 20.000 for winning the gold medal...do I get to be in the Flake Box, and the MIlk Carton ?????
To me this is a great form of competition....against the world best...what else can I hope for in a game ?????
Besides , I am learning from the best Masters.......and I am putting a bit of my knowledge.....great !!!!!
I learn from the Best...


I am not hidind anything...this are my numbers:
Conquest : 1699
Cities : 133
Population : 57.000.000 +

 

[Peaster]

URUWASHI - You get the "Gold Medal for Greatest Civ2 Fanatic" ! If you are interested in the other kind of Gold Medal, which Ali has been collecting a lot of recently, you need a large Civ2 score and to finish fairly quickly.

You can find your Civ2 score by pressing F9. It is based on your number of wonders (20 points each) and your number of citizens. I am not sure how the citizen points are figured, but I think happy citizens count double. So, if you raise your luxury rate, you will see your score go up.

With 133 cities and 57M pop'n, you probably got about 1000 points from your citizens (?). If they were mostly happy, you may have gotten 1500 or more. You probably got another 500-600 points from your wonders.

You finished in 1699. This date is used to change your Civ2 score into a GOTM score, using a slightly complicated formula. The main idea is that if your Civ2 score stays the same, your GOTM score goes down about 1.5% to 2% each turn.

Your score does not include your reputation or tech advances or gold, etc... I think an adjustment is made for a spaceship victory (the colonists count as citizens, perhaps?) but I have almost no experience with that.

 

[Peaster]

BTW - It is "Peaster", not "Pester". And if the Great Pharoah (from my PBEM game) is reading this, it is "My Brother", not "My Bother".

 

[la fayette]

According to my dictionary, the Great Pharoah is in fact a Great Pharaoh (the fun with it being that he himself makes the mistake ).

BTW I never play for score at all, because IMO early landing and early conquest require skill, while high score mostly requires patience .

 

[Peaster]

BTW I never play for score at all, because IMO early landing and early conquest require skill, while high score mostly requires patience .

I took this advice from you in my first tournament and have never regretted it. But I have started to think that moving the luxury bar over on the last turn, for example, doesn't require much effort.

Apologies to the Pharaoh, to samson and to EmperorGandalf (not Gandlaf) for my spelling errors!

 

[EmperorGandalf]

I found this Game of the Month thing to be fascinating. when does the next one start?

I hope its earlier than next month!

 

[Peaster]

EG - As you probably guessed, it starts next month, approx April 1. You can go back and play GOTMs 1-49 if you want, and you can still post your comments and results in the spoiler threads. Those games won't be considered official, but you might not care about that.

If you are really addicted, you can also try other websites, such as Apolyton, or the Polish GOTM group (there is a link to them in the Apolyton/Civ2/General section). But IMHO the CFC GOTM is the best-organized Civ2 game on the planet.

 

[la fayette]

This game was so much fun that I decided to play one more time.
I planned to try and attack even earlier... and it worked: last Spanish city conquered in 1575

Moderator Action: File removed until after submission deadline has passed.
Moderator Action: File added back to post

 

[Peaster]

Moderator Action: File removed until after submission deadline has passed.

Didn't I tell you this game is well-organized? It's only an hour since you posted (I think) and your game is already gone! If you want to send any saves to me by email, I promise to take a look.

Did you learn anything besides attacking early? I am still curious ... what is the best government, the best choice of wonders, etc, for conquest in this era? Anyway, hat's off to you for playing this difficult game 3 times!

 

[Ali Ardavan]

Spain declared war on first contact, so I felt I had to buy Amiens/Haiti. What a waste! No shields!

Oh, and can someone please help me figure out why i have an obsession with settling small islands?

EmperorGandalf, you are not alone. I love tiny islands. I have designed maps that consist solely of tiny and small islands. And I have found playing on such maps offers its own set of challenges. The automatic map generator never gives you a lot of small and tiny islands even if you ask for an Archipelago.

Tiny islands are useful when you are in Democracy and very useful once you discover Miniaturization. Without a democracy because they are on a separate land mass they end up with too much corruption. Under Democracy they thrive, go into celebrations and get really big. Before Miniaturization they are trade centers producing cash and knowledge. Afterwards build an offshore platform, factory, power plant there and they produce 40 to 50 shields per turn.

What I like most about tiny islands (single land tile surrounded by ocean), and what makes them superior for a city site, are:
1. They do not need settler improvements.
2. They can be easily defended.
3. They cause no pollution regardless of population/production

 

[Ali Ardavan]

@Ali - Are you playing mainly for score? Do you mind telling us approx where you are now (eg your citizen score, or your population) ? Are you still in monarchy?

BTW I never play for score at all, because IMO early landing and early conquest require skill, while high score mostly requires patience.

la fayette said it best. The designer of the GOTM scoring system must have felt the same way; the score highly penalizes you for taking your time to finish.

Peaster, here you go:

Status at 1493
Population: 0.58M; Cities: 5; Trade routes: 0D0F; Government: Monarchy
Finance. Treasury: 268; Cost per turn: 15; Income: 21; Tax rate: 30%
Science: Total advances: 23; Advance every 12 turns; Science rate: 70%
Production: 29MT; 0 polluted tiles
Wonders:
Units: 2 settlers, 5 Warrior, 4 Archer.
White?: No contact;
Gray?: No contact;
Spanish: No contact; Michelangelo;
Chinese: No contact; Great Wall;
Ottoman: No contact; Pyramids, Hanging Gardens, Great Library;
Purple?: No contact;

Status at +1518 (25 turns)
Population: 0.83M; Cities: 10; Trade routes: 0D0F; Government: Monarchy
Finance. Treasury: 16; Cost per turn: 20; Income: 29; Tax rate: 30%
Science: Total advances: 34; Advance every 8 turns; Science rate: 70%
Production: 51MT; 0 polluted tiles
Wonders: Colossus, Marco, Copernicus
Units: 8 settlers (2 None), 3 Warrior, 6 Archer, 2 None Crusader, 1 Trireme, 1 Diplomat, 4 Caravan.
Russian: 12 cities, 37 tech, 958g; Sun Tzu; Allied with Ottomans
Zulu: 8 cities, 17 tech, 582g;
Spanish: 13 cities, 38 tech, 847g; Michelangelo;
Chinese: 12 cities, 31 tech, 447g; Great Wall; War with Indians
Ottoman: 16 cities, 41 tech, 1140g; Pyramids, Hanging Gardens, Great Library; Allied with Russians, War with me & Indians
Indian: 12 cities, 28 tech, 677g; ; Allied with me, War with Chinese & Ottomans

Status at +1543 (50 turns)
Population: 1.66M; Cities: 17; Trade routes: 14D0F; Government: Monarchy
Finance. Treasury: 27; Cost per turn: 7; Income: 133; Tax rate: 70%
Science: Total advances: 47; Advance every 705 turns; Science rate: 0%
Production: 81MT; 0 polluted tiles
Wonders: Colossus, Marco, Copernicus, Adam Smith.
Units: 4 settlers (2 None), 8 Engineers, 2 Warrior, 4 Archer, 4 Musketeer, 1 Horseman, 1 None Crusader, 1 Knight, 1 Dragoon, 1 Caravel, 1 Destroyer, 2 Diplomat, 9 Caravan.
Russian: 12 cities, 44 tech, 1979g; Sun Tzu, Lighthouse;
Zulu: 9 cities, 23 tech, 654g;
Spanish: 12 cities, 49 tech, 914g; Michelangelo, Eiffel; War with Indians & Me.
Chinese: 13 cities, 46 tech, 965g; Great Wall, Shakespeare, Leo; War with Ottomans
Ottoman: 18 cities, 50 tech, 2131g; Pyramids, Hanging Gardens, Great Library, King Richard, Bach; War with Chinese & me
Indian: 12 cities, 48 tech, 853g; Magellan; Allied with me, War with Spanish.

Status at +1568 (75 turns)
Population: 7.47M; Cities: 25; Trade routes: 14D2F; Government: Democracy
Finance. Treasury: 12; Cost per turn: 38; Income: 138; Tax rate: 20%
Science: Total advances: 66; Advance every 3 turns; Science rate: 40%
Production: 192MT; 0 polluted tiles
Wonders: Colossus, Marco, Copernicus, Adam Smith, Newton, Hoover.
Units: 2 None settlers, 10 Engineers, 5 Archer, 8 Musketeer, 1 Fanatic, 2 Riflemen, 1 Horseman, 1 None Crusader, 1 Knight, 1 Cavalry, 1 Caravel, 1 Destroyer, 2 Diplomat, 8 Freight.
Russian: No embassy; Sun Tzu, Lighthouse, Darwin, Statue of Liberty; War with Indian, Chinese and me.
Zulu: No embassy;
Spanish: No embassy; Michelangelo, Eiffel; War with me.
Chinese: No embassy; Great Wall, Shakespeare, Leo; Allied with me, war with Russians.
Ottoman: No embassy; Pyramids, Hanging Gardens, Great Library, King Richard, Bach, Suffrage; War with me
Indian: No embassy; Magellan; Allied with me, war with Russians.

Status at +1593 (100 turns)
Population: 13.58M; Cities: 36; Trade routes: 20D12F; Government: Democracy
Finance. Treasury: 324; Cost per turn: 187; Income: 534; Tax rate: 40%
Science: Total advances: 79; Advance every 3 turns; Science rate: 20%
Production: 450MT; 0 polluted tiles
Wonders: Colossus, Marco, Copernicus, Adam Smith, Newton, Hoover, SETI.
Units: 2 None settlers, 20 Engineers, 4 Archer, 8 Musketeer, 1 Fanatic, 4 Riflemen, 1 Horseman, 1 None Crusader, 1 Knight, 1 Dragoon, 1 Cavalry, 1 Caravel, 1 Destroyer, 2 Transport, 2 Diplomat, 2 Spy, 13 Freight.
Russian: No embassy; Sun Tzu, Lighthouse, Darwin, Statue of Liberty; War with me.
Zulu: No embassy;
Spanish: No embassy; Michelangelo, Eiffel, Cure for Cancer; War with me.
Chinese: 17 cities, 72 tech, 1721g; Great Wall, Shakespeare, Leo; Allied with me.
Ottoman: No embassy; Pyramids, Hanging Gardens, Great Library, King Richard, Bach, Suffrage, UN; War with me
Indian: 12 cities, 65 tech, 1416g; Magellan; Allied with me, war with Russians.

 

[Ali Ardavan]

I have played till 1603. I have all the techs I would like to have and I am currently researching Future Techs.

My current goals are:
1. Establish more foreign trade routes (mainly for cash).
2. Build up the infrastructure (this is what I need the cash for).
3. Settle tiny islands around Americas. Carribean is fully settled. Pacific islands are the current rage.

Although I have been ready for 15 years I have not yet started the space race. The only city currently concerned with the race is my capital which has all the infrastructure it needs short of an airport. It is building one food caravan per turn which gets saved. My goal is to build the Apollo in one turn and have cities precharged so that I can put together a space ship as quickly as possible.

Meanwhile, I am keeping a weary eye on the Chinese whom I am sure are going to be my rivals in the space race. They stole Fusion Power from Nebraska which prompted me to subvert their single city in Southern California. I have kept my alliance with them though because I would like to deliver more freights to their cities.

 

[URUWASHI]

Peaster, Thank you enlighten me about the point scale.
I replayed the last 2 turns of my GOMT50 and built Collisseums and Temples in almost all of my 100 + cities , then, changed the " happiness factor " to 100% and went for capitalization ...My achivement points remained the same ( 560 ), ditto with my Future Tech SCore , Peace and Barbarians....but my citizen points changed to over 140 + !! All ended in the same year, but the extra points are sweet...

THanks !!!!

 

[Peaster]

Ali - Thanks! For some reason, I love Civ2 stats. Also, I am a little curious about your space race goals. Is it generally true that the AI doesn't get into the race until you build Apollo ? So, it is wise to delay that a little ?

URUWASHI - You are welcome. But I don't know everything about scores... does capitalization help with that?

Apparently, playing for score was more popular a few years ago. I looked at some GOTM20 saves and everybody was playing extreme ICS, with 50-100 cities packed in like sardines on a smallish map by about 500AD. I don't think they were trying very hard to finish quickly, but I guess the spoiler threads are gone by now. After seeing those games, I am not so sure that I actually play "ICS"!

Everybody - I think it is impossible to predict the citizen score accurately from just population and the number of cities. My attempts to find a simple reasonable formula failed, but maybe I found a very simple unreasonable one. It shouldn't work, but it seems to do OK in the mid-to-late game, unless you are playing OCC, or some other weird system. I have only tested it on a few games, so let me know if it doesn't work for you. It applies before sliding the lux bar to 100, to make people happy, and it is just a rough approximation:

citizen score = 40 x population (in millions)

 

[Ali Ardavan]

Ali - Thanks! For some reason, I love Civ2 stats. Also, I am a little curious about your space race goals. Is it generally true that the AI doesn't get into the race until you build Apollo ? So, it is wise to delay that a little ?

Generally, yes. But I have had games when the AI beat me to Apollo.
I am delaying the space race till my infrastructure and trade gets to a point that I can build a ship quickly. This is a risky strategy as the AI gets closer and closer tech wise to the techs needed for the space race. When the race actually starts every AI who has any of the techs needed for building space ship parts will join the race. Also, your allies demand the space ship techs and if you refuse there is a good chance they will break the alliance. This is why I am trying to delay the race till I get several transport loads of freights over to China and India.

Everybody - I think it is impossible to predict the citizen score accurately from just population and the number of cities. My attempts to find a simple reasonable formula failed, but maybe I found a very simple unreasonable one. It shouldn't work, but it seems to do OK in the mid-to-late game, unless you are playing OCC, or some other weird system. I have only tested it on a few games, so let me know if it doesn't work for you. It applies before sliding the lux bar to 100, to make people happy, and it is just a rough approximation:
citizen score = 40 x population (in millions)

Citizen score is quite simple. You get 2 points for every happy citizen and 1 point for every content citizen. You do not get any points for unhappy citizens. Maxing out luxuries right before the end helps but not a whole lot as there is a limit to how much luxuries a city can absorb; the rest is just wasted. At higher levels luxuries apply to only half+1 of the city's citizens; the rest are not affected.

 

[Peaster]

I am too lazy to count my citizens [or worked tiles] very often. I guess worked tiles = citizens + cities, but I don't see a fast way to count either side of the equation. I thought there might be some simple way to do it from the demographics window. IIRC many of those numbers are gotten by dividing something by citizens +1, but I forget the details. As Ali said, you could use your citizen score to count your citizens, if they are all content.

In this game, sliding the luxury bar from 0% to 80% increased my citizen score more than 50%, which seems like a lot, for no effort. I was playing Fundy with 20M population. I have no idea if that is a typical change.

BTW (to Ali) What does "Trade routes: 20D12F" mean?

 

[Ali Ardavan]

I am too lazy to count my citizens [or worked tiles] very often.

So am I. I use the population figure of the Demographics report for my status report which I prepare every so many turns in a game to keep track of my progress.

I guess worked tiles = citizens + cities, but I don't see a fast way to count either side of the equation. I thought there might be some simple way to do it from the demographics window. IIRC many of those numbers are gotten by dividing something by citizens +1, but I forget the details.

You are right about worked tiles, as every city square is worked automatically.
Population, as reported in the Demographics window, is the sum of the popoluations of all your cities. The population of a city of size n is:
n*(n+1)*10000
Thus your population is not just a function of the number of your citizens but how they are spread/concentrated. A city of size 5 gives you a population of 150K while 5 cities of size 1 give you a population of 50K. Obviously, it is also not possible to calculate the number of your citizens from your population as two cities of size 2 each give you a population of 60K which is the same as the population of a single city of size 3.

BTW (to Ali) What does "Trade routes: 20D12F" mean?

20 Domestic (both ends are my cities) and 12 Foreign. The number before D, by definition, must be even.

 

[la fayette]

I didn't think there was any problem sending the final saves of my games #2 and #3, since they are not my "official" games and this is a spoiler thread.