Govanon

[Immaculate]

How do i use this unit's teaching ability effectively?

So far he knows fire I and body I and can teach his students that spark spell that lights forests on fire and haste.
Can he teach people fire II if i get him to learn fire II? Could everyone throw a fireball? I suspect its limited to level one spells right?
In that case, am i best to get Govanon to learn all the spells at level one so that he can teach all units all level one spells?

Thanks. I'm still pretty new to this mod but quite enjoying it.

PS: Is evan the white (or whatever his name is) a total vassal party (i wanted to call him something else but thought i should be more careful of my language) in most games? In my game he has been swooping in on hurt civs that are involved in a fight with a third party and making them his vassal. Everyone loves him so no one is warring with him and he is getting bigger and bigger score (probably mostly due to vassal's territory and population).

 

[MagisterCultuum]

Govannon can only teach level 1 spells (fire1, shadow1, chaos1, dimensional1, body1, death1), and only to living, non-animal, non-disciple units. Note that he can train units that will be upgraded to disciples; training future druids (while they are still rangers) to be able to use all spells in these spheres is a known exploit.



I changed the way it works in my modmod. In the released version, he can train every spell sphere and spell extension, but requires the second level to train the first. It has a random chance for working any living, non-animal, non-disciple, non-arcane unit, and has a random chance of giving the unit channeling2/sorcery (allowing level 2 spells) if the unit is at a high enough level. At an higher level there is a smaller chance that unit that already has sorcery will gain channeling3 (making it essentially an archmage) or giving the new "tutor" promotion (I made the ability to train spells dependent on this promo instead of the unit, so students of Govannon can teach others.))

In the next version, I'll instead have training be a passive effect of the tutor promotion; it won't require you cast a spell (meaning you can cast something else that turn) and will passively train spells to units on the same tile. It will be able to train higher level spells, but more rarely.




"evan the white"? Do you mean Ethne the White? (Who is not a he, she is a woman.) I haven't witnessed that kind of behavior, but it actually seems rather appropriate for a pacifist civ like the Elohim.

Oh, and its Govannon not Govanon.

 

[Mewtarthio]

Govannon can only teach level 1 spells (fire1, shadow1, chaos1, dimensional1, body1, death1), and only to living, non-animal, non-disciple units. Note that he can train units that will be upgraded to disciples; training future druids (while they are still rangers) to be able to use all spells in these spheres is a known exploit.

I prefer not to think of it as an "exploit" so much as a "feature." The Amurites are a very accepting society, so long as you've got arcane power, and Govannon is the most egalitarian of them all. Sure, most normal Druids would find the idea of casting Pillar of Flames and Meteor Swarm to be absurd, but I imagine Govannon talking with each unit on its own terms: To the soldiers, he teaches the advantages of magic in combat; to the workers, he tells of how to use arcane power to help with labor; and with the rangers, he discusses the importance of certain spheres in the cycle of nature. When they become druids, they remember the lessons they've learned of how regular fires are necessary to keep the forest healthy, as well as the deeper connection to fire they've forged with Govannon's training.

"evan the white"? Do you mean Ethne the White? (Who is not a he, she is a woman.) I haven't witnessed that kind of behavior, but it actually seems rather appropriate for a pacifist civ like the Elohim.

It's kind of strange how so many people get confused on Ethne's gender. Is it just that she's basically a gender-swapped Buddha?

Anyway, I really hope this behavior was intentional. The Elohim are all about protection, and vassalization suits them nicely.

 

[Immaculate]

So yeah, Ethne.
The thing is that SHE vassalized Keelyn who has the veil holy city and i want to burn that monstrosity down. Of course, i can't do that why Ethne is protecting her or i will end up at war with Keelyn, Ethne, the dwarves, and the green horse mercernary civ, Tasanake?

 

[Nikis-Knight]

Generally I find civs too willing to become vassals. I like the feature anyway, but think the threshold should be a little higher. I don't think this is specific, but as you pointed out, Elohim are probably generally better liked.
Anyway, you can turn the feature off if it bugs you in the custom game settings.

 

[MaxAstro]

Wow, never thought of that trick with Druids before. Um... wait a minute. Once you have a Druid that knows Death, can't you use Lichdom to get a Lich with Sorcery, Summoning, AND Divine, AND able to learn new spells? o.O

 

[MagisterCultuum]

Yes, you can. That is why it so much of an exploit

It is also one of the main reasons why reason why I changed how lichdom works in my modmod; it is no longer a death magic spell, but requires either the staff of souls or the broken sepulcher. That, plus I just don't like spells that become useless once used (world spells excepted)

 

[kenken244]

Then you still need to change ressurection.

 

[MagisterCultuum]

Yeah. I tried making it so that you could at least use it to resurrect religious heroes too, but haven't had much luck. At one point it seemed to be working, but I messed it up somehow. That time I made it so that it would resurrect a religious hero if the national hero wasn't dead (or was it if it hadn't been built yet?), but I would really rather it trigger an event that gives you a choice of whom to resurrect. I don't really know how to make events like that though yet.

Still, resurrection can be used multiple times if the hero dies multiple times, so it isn't that bad. Trust is the other spell I'd like to see changed. I'm also not opposed to having multiple spells in some spheres, and letting some of them be one timers. I think that some Laroth-style spirit magic (binding souls to weapons to enchant them, causing entire cities to become overwhelmed with depression, etc) would be awesome, but would probably have to be limited to evil spirit mages.

 

[MaxAstro]

My thought, for both Lichdom and Ressurection, was that I'd make both special "rituals", castable only at a mana node of the proper type, but castable by any unit with Death III or Life III, regardless of the unit's other casting abilities. And then have seperate third level Sorceries for Death and Life III.

I'm actually planning on adding a "ritual" spell of this kind for each type of mana, generally of the form "Cast at a mana node of that type, destroys the mana node, invokes some powerful effect", just as soon as I finish deciding what all the ritual effects will be.

 

[Mesix]

My thought, for both Lichdom and Ressurection, was that I'd make both special "rituals", castable only at a mana node of the proper type, but castable by any unit with Death III or Life III, regardless of the unit's other casting abilities. And then have seperate third level Sorceries for Death and Life III.

I'm actually planning on adding a "ritual" spell of this kind for each type of mana, generally of the form "Cast at a mana node of that type, destroys the mana node, invokes some powerful effect", just as soon as I finish deciding what all the ritual effects will be.

That sounds way too complicated for the AI to use effectively. On the other hand, the AI doesn't upgrade adepts or create liches right now any way, so it won't change the AI weakness.