[R&F] Governors Discussion

[Amrunril]

Now that we've seen the gameplay video, we have a much clearer picture of how governors will work, both in terms of overall mechanics and in terms of some of the specific abilities. From the features thread:

During a game, players can earn up to seven Governors. Each Governor has a different skill tree of promotions. We bent a lot of existing game rules to give them the power to make a difference in your cities."

Governors like spies won't be units on the map

Governor titles are earned through the Civics tree (can upgrade 5 times)

Magnus The Steward -

Tier 1) Bonus to plot yields and terrain removals in the city
Tier 2) Surplus Logistics - +Growth in the City, +Food in cities that end Trade Routes in the City; Provision - + Production of Industrial Zone Buildings, Settlers do not consume population
Tier 3) Industrialist - +production for each strategic resource in the city; Black Marketeer - don't need Strategic Resources to build Units in this city
Tier 4) Vertical Integration - You get the Industrial Zone bonuses from all near by districts not just the 1

Liang the Surveyor -

Tier 1) grants an extra builder charge
Tier 2) Infrastructure - +production of Government Plaza and Buildings; Aquaculture - Can build the Fishery Tile Improvement
Tier 3) Zoning Commissioner - +production of building Districts; Amusement - +production to Entertainment Complex and Water Park Buildings
Tier 4) Parks and Recreation - Can Build the City Park Tile Improvement

Pingala the Educator -

Tier 1) +Science, +Culture in City
Tier 2) Connoisseur - +Production to Theater Square Buildings in City; Researcher - +Production to Campus buildings in City
Tier 3) Grants - Increases the Great Person points Generated in the City
Tier 4) Arms Race Proponent - +Production towards Nuclear Arms; Space Initiative - +Production to Space Based Projects

Victor the Castellan -

Amani the Diplomat -

Tier 1) Can be sent to a City State where she counts as 2 envoys
Tier 2) Emissary - all Foreign Cities in range get increased Loyalty to your Civ; Prestige - All Domestic Cities in range get increased Loyalty to your Civ
Tier 3) Affluence - get a copy of the luxuries in the City State you are in; Promoter - +Amenities in the City you are in
Tier 4) Puppeteer - Doubles the number of Envoys you have in the City State you are Located in

Moksha the Cardinal -

Reyna the Financier -

With this information, I think we're in a good position to start discussing/speculating this system. What will its overall gameplay impacts be? How do you think you use it? How might it interact with wonders and civ abilities?

In my view, governors are the most interesting system being added in Rise and Fall, and they bring back something that was lost in the transition from Civ V to Civ VI's cultural systems (the governor system, with its primarily culture-triggered promotion tree reminds me a lot of Civ V's culture system), the potential for long term customization. A game starting with a steward governor and leveling him up immediately will be very different from one doing the same with a diplomat or one distributing titles between many governors, even when playing with the same civ and targeting the same victory condition.

On the other hand, governors also seem like they'll introduce a lot of micromanagement. There are a lot of abilities that will benefit from switching them between cities at specific times (production bonuses towards specific buildings, for instance), and trying to coordinate that will require moving governors several turns in advance and replacing governors displaced in the process. This will definitely introduce some interesting trade-offs, but it will introduce a lot of tedious logistical planning as well.

 

[Lily_Lancer]

I think the system is broken. The +100% chop one is likely to overperform the sum of all others, and making the game a very boring one with just very early chop chop chop and horseman rush.

 

[Anno]

As someone who likes playing pretty small civilizations and likes fiddle micromanagement I'm pretty hyped for this system. I'll be even more excited if it's something that's easily moddable as I assume it would be a pretty popular system to change around.

 

[indradiva]

I think the system is broken. The +100% chop one is likely to overperform the sum of all others, and making the game a very boring one with just very early chop chop chop and horseman rush.

unless they reduce the base harvesting yields

 

[Lily_Lancer]

unless they reduce the base harvesting yields

Yes. 10/12 seems reasonable. 20/25 is too much since it scales up with game progression.

 

[Amrunril]

I think the system is broken. The +100% chop one is likely to overperform the sum of all others, and making the game a very boring one with just very early chop chop chop and horseman rush.

I'm sure some of the individual bonuses will be imbalanced before, at, and in all likelihood, for some time after release. I don't think this should be interpreted as the system being broken, though, any more than some units being overpowered means the combat system is broken.

 

[Ivan Hunger]

Some synergies that present themselves:

America: Surveyor (faster government plazas and related buildings), Castellan (combine with Teddy's leader ability for early aggression), Educator (get those film studios in the late game)
Arabia: Cardinal (build prerequisites for your worship building faster, spread aggressively for more science), Educator (get those Madrasas up faster)
Australia: Surveyor (faster super-districts and more charges for building outback stations), Castellan (provoke defensive wars for more production)
Aztecs: Surveyor (more builder charges means more district rushing, build Tlachtlis faster), Castellan (expedite slavery)
Brazil: Surveyor (faster super-districts in the jungle and carnivals), Educator (great people spam)
Netherlands: Surveyor (faster super-districts and culture-bombing harbors, more polders), Financier (get the most out of those trade routes)
China: Stewart (better overall production will help with getting early game research boosts), Surveyor (double down on builders, get lots of great walls)
Egypt: Stewart (overall production helps with wonder spam), Financier (super trade routes), Surveyor (for districts and sphinxes)
England: Educator (faster archaeological museums in the mid-game), Castellan (more value from those free units), Surveyor (get those Royal Navy dockyards up fast)
France: Stewart (wonder spam forever), Castellan (espionage forever), Surveyor (more chateaus)
Germany: Surveyor (reach that district cap faster and build those hansas), Castellan (it's a bad day to be a city-state)
Greece: Diplomat (Pericles loves city-states), Castellan (Gorgo hates everyone), Surveyor (get those acropolises up)
India: Castellan (there is no shame in deterrence), Surveyor (more stepwells)
Indonesia: Surveyor (get those super-districts faster, more kampungs), Cardinal (get faith, make boats, conquer oceans)
Japan: Surveyor (lightning fast super-districts), Castellan (defend your shores), Stewart (get those electronics factories in the late game)
Khmer: Surveyor (faster aqueducts and culture-bombing super-holy sites, more farms), Cardinal (faster prasats)
Kongo: Educator (great people spam), Surveyor (faster mbanzas and theatre squares)
Korea: Surveyor (faster seowons, more farms and mines), Educator (more culture for grabbing more governors), the rest (gotta catch 'em all)
Macedon: Castellan (what is best in life)
Norway: Financier (a strong navy, it is a beautiful thing), Cardinal (get those stave churches up)
Nubia: Castellan (archers to the ready), Surveyor (lightning fast districts, more Nubian pyramids and mines)
Persia: Stewart (super internal trade routes), Castellan (SURPRISE!), Surveyor (more pairidaezas)
Poland: Surveyor (faster culture-boming encampments and super-holy sites), Financier (faster sukiennices)
Rome: Stewart (expand early), Surveyor (faster baths)
Russia: Stewart (forward settle everyone), Financier (super trade routes), Surveyor (get those lavras up)
Scythia: Castellan (I'm sorry, I can't hear you over the sound of hooves crushing the skulls of your people), Surveyor (more kurgans)
Spain: Financier (super trade routes), Castellan (all heretics must be purged), Surveyor (more missions)
Sumaria: Castellan (it's a bad day to be a barbarian), Diplomat (more city-states means more levied units), Surveyor (more ziggurats)

 

[empresskiova]

I imagine Gilgabro will like the Educator early on... Ziggurat spam +20% will let him fly through the techs and civics tree.

 

[Dark_Jedi06]

Overall it looks like a fun, nuanced system and it seems like you'll be approaching it in a different way each game. I can see where the micromanagement could become onerous in the late game.

What I don't like is that they have the same names and same portraits across all the civs, I think I'd prefer if they were more generic because right now the multicultural spectrum just seems jarring.

 

[NegativeZero]

Overall, I like what the governor system will bring to civ6 as it functions quite well in other 4x games .

I'm a little apprehensive that players will bottleneck themselves into selecting the same 1-2 governors each and every game as that governor is "too powerful to be without." Like tradition starts in Civ5, it will be too inefficient to select the other candidates.

I get the feeling form Pingala the educator and Liang the surveyor . Their bonuses are quite potent, available early, and relevant to all civs.

Otherwise, I can't wait to see what exactly the other governors do as the ones we know about are already quite potent.

 

[criZp]

As someone who likes playing pretty small civilizations and likes fiddle micromanagement I'm pretty hyped for this system. I'll be even more excited if it's something that's easily moddable as I assume it would be a pretty popular system to change around.

Yeah, I will definely grab a mod that replaces the governor images, they look atrocious. Someone really should get fired by that work.

 

[stealth_nsk]

I'm a little apprehensive that players will bottleneck themselves into selecting the same 1-2 governors each and every game as that governor is "too powerful to be without."

This looks logical. However, I think different civs and conditions could affect the choice a lot. If you get no iron around, getting and leveluping Magnus The Steward could be a very good idea, for example.
Also, if there's a city-state with some very important suzerain bonuses, you may consider focusing on Amani the Diplomat. There could be much more nuances.

 

[criZp]

The one who lets you make units without the required resource sounds really stupid.

 

[Mr Jon of Cheam]

I'm obviously a glass half full kind of guy. I'm sure there will be some balance issues and potential exploits but in general I think the system looks and sounds like a great addition which will add both diversity and depth.

I quite like the look of the governors, I think it's very unfair to say they look atrocious, but I personally would have preferred to see a simpler image per governor and a different set of seven names per civ, just for the sake of immersion.

 

[NegativeZero]

Yeah, I will definely grab a mod that replaces the governor images, they look atrocious. Someone really should get fired by that work.

I quite like the stylized appearance of the civ6 governors as they will hold up as the game ages and as technology/graphics get better. You never know.....perhaps the community will fondly remember the civ6 governor appearances in the future.

I think different civs and conditions could affect the choice a lot. If you get no iron around, getting and leveluping Magnus The Steward could be a very good idea, for example.
Also, if there's a city-state with some very important suzerain bonuses, you may consider focusing on Amani the Diplomat. There could be much more nuances.

Most likely there will be a huge amount of nuances to governors with possible balance issues/exploits to boot. Those first few titles hold the most sway over a civilizations general direction in RnF, so I hope there is a plethora of viable choices.

I'm quite eager to explore the possibilities to this particular mechanic, but If players utilize their first 2-3 titles the same way each game despite their different civilizations, starting locations, and game-play situation then there is no real choice at all.

 

[criZp]

I'm obviously a glass half full kind of guy. I'm sure there will be some balance issues and potential exploits but in general I think the system looks and sounds like a great addition which will add both diversity and depth.

I quite like the look of the governors, I think it's very unfair to say they look atrocious, but I personally would have preferred to see a simpler image per governor and a different set of seven names per civ, just for the sake of immersion.

Magnus and Liang both have those disgusting self-satisfactory smiles. Pingala clearly is some experimental creature with no brain. Victor belongs on the battlefield. Amani is an extraterrestrial being dressed up as a muslim for some reason. Moksha will be too busy doing meditation in the temple to get any work done. And least but not least there's Reyna, the "longest neck ever" woman, who belongs in a circus with all the other weirdos (world's fattest man, the woman with beard, etc...)

 

[Kyro]

I think Magnus is probably the ideal governor to prioritize levels in given his bonuses to both food and production.

And stacking Industrial Zones sounds really nice.

I think bonus chopping yields is going to be abusive of they don't remove boosted amount from overflows when used with policy cards.

 

[Mr Jon of Cheam]

Magnus and Liang both have those disgusting self-satisfactory smiles. Pingala clearly is some experimental creature with no brain. Victor belongs on the battlefield. Amani is an extraterrestrial being dressed up as a muslim for some reason. Moksha will be too busy doing meditation in the temple to get any work done. And least but not least there's Reyna, the "longest neck ever" woman, who belongs in a circus with all the other weirdos (world's fattest man, the woman with beard, etc...)

They're very stylised but they're supposed to be archetypes. Fair enough if you don't like them, different strokes for different folks.

 

[NegativeZero]

Liang the surveyor's Park improvement grants +2 appeal, +1 culture, and +1 amenity when adjacent to a lake/coast (Thank you indradiva!).

The +2 appeal of the park makes it very similar to Persia's Pairidaeza UI that grants a mini-Eiffel Tower effect to surrounding tiles which subsequently allows obscene tourism yields from seaside resorts (which is further improved by computers, Cristo Redentor, and The Eiffel Tower).

Although the park is quite a ways down Liang's promotion tack, it could be quite a boon for civs headed toward tourism victories that never inherently had appeal granting improvements/abilities.

Edit: Inserted park's correct yield.

 

[indradiva]

Liang the surveyor's Park improvement grants +2 appeal, +1 culture, and +1 amenity when adjacent to (not yet known).

it's + 1 amenity if adjacent to lake/coast