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Graphical problem when editing Terrain1.gif

Discussion in 'Civ2 - Scenario Creation' started by Greizer85, Jan 12, 2014.

  1. Cassius Critzer

    Cassius Critzer King

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    There is no doubt either the problem is with the hidden gif commenting or the conversion settings which are:
    255 colors
    8 quantization
    Dithering
    Interlacing.

    If I can get it to work, I'm happy to upload a new Terrain1.gif file so everyone can see a vastly superior map that is absolutely clear concerning the terrain.Otherwise you have to constantly "show hidden terrain".

    It would then be relatively easy to compile multiple resources as tiny icons or color values so one could also use standard map symbology versus the cumbersome large icons.n

    Similarly, multiple unit.gif files could gather together similar unit types so that say in the Sengoku mod, you could have eras like the Mongol invasion included far earlier in history.
     
  2. Cassius Critzer

    Cassius Critzer King

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    Thanks for this. This is the most stable version of civ 2 especially when doing modding. It causes far less cpu throttle issues and seems to remedy the ai hostility. Keep the original in a folder and keep this version in another folder. It works great for me.
     
  3. Knighttime

    Knighttime Warlord

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    Hi Cassius, I'm looking at this due to the link you provided in the thread about people.gif.

    I'm not sure I understand exactly what you want. However, I think it would be better (quality) to convert straight from PNG into GIF, instead of going through JPG (or JPG plus an incorrect GIF) as a middle step. Remember that JPG is a "lossy" format, therefore it's good to avoid that whenever possible. So if you have the PNG source file (or whatever file serves as your true source, BMP or PNG or whatever), and can attach it here, it wouldn't be much trouble for me to save it as a GIF file with the standard Civ 2 palette.

    Your JPG image seems to have the following icons blanked out:
    • irrigation
    • farmland
    • mining
    • grassland resource
    All of those seem to relate to the issue you labeled "One". For your other issue ("Two"), are you also asking for the new Terrain1.gif to have all of the resource icons blanked out, for every terrain type? I can do that as well, if that's really what you want, I just want to make sure I'm understanding your goal.
     
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  4. Cassius Critzer

    Cassius Critzer King

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    You are immensely helpful. Thank you sincerely.

    Here is the terrain.bmp which has what I want. There also is terrain1.gif in a png format.
    1. Can you just do a version where the terrain.bmp is a proper gif?
    2. Can you then do a version where the png is just a proper gif too?

    The terrain.bmp has the idealized terrain that I borrowed from another existing mod.

    Then and only if you have time...
    3. Would you do a version with these same files have the resources blanked out? I will save that for version 2.0 because maybe I can find some tiny version of the existing icons versus the large existing ones. The resource icons should be scaled half as large so they don't obscure the terrain as much.

    The way resources are allocated is very random, however metals (copper, gold, iron, and silver) and lumber can be very laid down much more frequently. That is how it's configured now with lumber from deciduous forests, conifers, and boreal forests.

    The main goal is to eliminate irrigation, mining, and farming and I will come up with an icon symbology using the terrain editor that is built in.

    The attached terrain.bmp has my ideal representation depicted for the base terrain.

    The terrain.png has less desireable terrain types but allows these to be overwritten with what information is written in the bmp file.
     

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    Last edited: Jun 21, 2019
  5. Cassius Critzer

    Cassius Critzer King

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    It appears that by using lumber in various types of forests, these then actually are several kinds of resources even when the land has been cleared and made into farmland. I'm still puzzling it out as it's cleverly constructed since you can't place resources in the map even with a hex editor.

    Blanking the resource icons makes sense, then using say a small number overlay or a letter designation as it currently is very obscure.

    Resources
    1. Gems
    2. Silk
    3. Pottery
    4. Cloth
    5. Handcrafts
    6. Books
    7. Copper
    8. Dye
    9. Rice
    10. Tea
    11. Silver
    12. Perfume
    13. Silver
    14. Gold
    15. Pearls
    16. Mercury
     
  6. Knighttime

    Knighttime Warlord

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    Do the attached files work and look the way you'd like?

    In another thread, you talked about a way to get Windows 3.11 running on Android. Personally, I really think you would be well-served by going down that road (or doing something similar), so that you're able to run a graphics editing tool like an old version of Paint Shop Pro that works well with Civ2-formatted GIF files. Your scenario creation work would be so much more straightforward if you had all of the tools you needed on hand, instead of relying on the community to overcome their absence. I don't mean that to be critical, and it's not that I mind helping out with a few simple things, but it just seems like you're hindering your own efforts by trying to work around the limits of Android instead of tackling the core issue and resolving it.
     

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  7. Cassius Critzer

    Cassius Critzer King

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    Thanks. You are most certainly correct.

    The plan is to once again get Windows 3.11 loaded as a partition on my Android tablet. It worked once mysteriously. Ideally I could get Win 95 but I doubt that will work. Paint Shop Pro 3.12 is supposed to run under either Microsoft OS.

    Right now there is an irritatingly simply few pixels on the Takeda flag for the radar colors on the map that would literally take a minute to fix, but I can't without solving this issue.

    At first it was a challenge to see IF Civ 2MGE could run, and then actually modded under Linux.

    Regardless to create a Title.gif, I need that much too.

    I sincerely appreciate your help.
     
    Last edited: Jun 21, 2019
  8. Cassius Critzer

    Cassius Critzer King

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    Yes, they look exactly how I wanted the terrain to be upgraded.

    I hope you upload the files in the Scenario League and in the downloads as a very useful base terrain1.gif as now most modders and players can merely mix and match from existing terrain and resources and then create their own terrain.bmp.

    It's superb and easily configurable. Now anyone can use a black loamy sort of tile for rich farmland or use the terraced Asian sort and edit in whatever irrigation, mining, or farms should look like on top of all the terrain tiles. Now it is readily apparent what the existing terrain is.
     
  9. Metro Polis

    Metro Polis Warlord

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    I always used the MS Paint program within Windows (even Win10) and saved as the graphics as .bmp with 256 colours (Maybe you save it as a 24bit .bmp file, that's why you fail.

    If I saved them as .gif files I had to run them through a special program and save again. I just can't remember its name. Maybe I still have that program saved on one of my older laptops. But it makes no sense really, just try out Paint.
     
    Last edited: Jun 21, 2019
  10. Cassius Critzer

    Cassius Critzer King

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    No, Photosuite for the Android has no gif or bmp export option. They did do a rotten Gimp release which was shocking as Gimp is ordinarily a fine program. The Gimp release was so abysmal due to being extremely buggy so they took it down from Google Play.

    So Photosuite can export to a standard that everyone uses in the community now ie png or a lossy jpg. So I tried a conversion program that turned that into a gif with 256 colors but that failed to be recognized by Civ 2.
     
  11. Metro Polis

    Metro Polis Warlord

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    I used a program which converted gifs to gifs Civ2 could use. I'll look for it later.

    Edit: It's posted in the "Radar map" thread.
     
    Last edited: Jun 22, 2019
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  12. Metro Polis

    Metro Polis Warlord

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    Hi, Blasp, just a guess, maybe it helps.

    I made a mistake myself recently and guess because Civ2-MGE used 8bit graphics and Civ2-TOT used 24bit. Maybe your files are 32bit or even 64bit. You can easily right-click on a gif that doesn't work and look for more detail. I don't think you can choose the 8bit mode for gif pictures anymore. But you can do that when you save it as bmp with 256 colours. And it works if you take an original 8bit gif from one of the old scenarios posted here in the forum and place your graphics right into that original one. It will lose some colours though. I still work with Windows Paint!
    Maybe thinking about using Civ2-TOT will work better, because the graphics there are 24bit and you won't see any difference if you transform 32bit or 64bit into 24bit.
     
  13. Cassius Critzer

    Cassius Critzer King

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    Yes but Photosuite won't export as a gif or a bmp so reguardless you have no options regarding the number of bits.
     
  14. Knighttime

    Knighttime Warlord

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    I should probably clarify that I didn't exactly "convert" (as in, simply open and re-save) your files into GIF format. Instead what I did was: using Paint Shop Pro, open up the game's default Terrain1.gif, open up your file separately, then copy the entire image from your file and paste it into Terrain1.gif. This not only forces the source image into 256 colors, but also into the exact palette (the specific set of colors, each with a specific index) that Civ2 requires/expects in GIF files. I also had to pay attention to the usage of the final palette slot (255) which is treated as transparent by the game, and this took some final editing or cleanup.

    The same process applies to people.gif and cities.gif which were handled in separate threads.

    None of this was too difficult, but I think the problem is slightly more complex than "convert any PNG or JPG to an 8-bit GIF" due to the palette issues.
     
    Last edited: Jun 23, 2019
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  15. Cassius Critzer

    Cassius Critzer King

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    Well I sincerely appreciate it because even IF I had windows and paint shop pro working and had migrated Civ 2, that sounds like quite a bit of work.

    It explains why the Gif Convertor is not working. It explains why numerous converters are not working either. This is why I need an experienced artist to help.

    How badly is this title.png mangled?
     

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    Last edited: Jun 23, 2019
  16. Knighttime

    Knighttime Warlord

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    It's not "mangled"... looks pretty decent, just gets a little more pixelated when converted.
     

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  17. Cassius Critzer

    Cassius Critzer King

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    Thanks! I actually was looking at Dos paint programs since I can do Dos emulation...but that is an act of desperation as there likely will be the same sorts of compatibility issues.

    In the cities.gif file, nobody that I know of has ever taken a city type and turned it into a fort. Most just have taken a very basic corner structure. I have seen starforts though and they are aesthetically pleasing for the historical time period they were used.

    Is anyone up for taking one of the Japanese city types and making a fort and airfield from them? Then everything would "match". At very advanced levels hundreds of turns later, as ninja are air units that attack ground units, but far later they can build ninja houses that can be defended.

    In the cities.bmp, you can see what forts look like. It works as the color matches up but was taken from another mod and doesn't look Japanese at all. I've tried a couple of things but nothing actually looks correct.

    Several of the walled city types would look excellent...if say the top two sections are trimmed off.

    Otherwise I can butcher it in Photosuite but then it will be screwed up pallette wise and just have to be redone and then exported properly to gif.

    Then graphically everything is DONE. I'm so close to release:
    1. Units done
    2. Map is done
    3. Tech is done
    4. Events work but nine more will be added

    Right now it's perfectly playable.

    Then it will be added to dropbox so anyone can beta test it like I am now.

    I'm going to have several versions to people can play the whole period or just the final action period with thousands of units prebuilt so war can be waged straight away: both single units of battallions and various kinds of armies and ships.

    Whoever controls the Imperial Court of the Emperor has many wonders within so I thought of having several saved games where the player begins with that gained. That sounds easier but is actually way harder. Obviously every tribe wants that but the Mori and Oda are poised to strike.
     

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    Last edited: Jun 25, 2019
  18. Blasph23

    Blasph23 Terraformation Junkie

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