Greater Epic Mod

[KingTux]

Here's a mod that was inspired from boredom. As I only have a 56K modem, I'm trying to limit the size of this mod. Also, I'd like comments on this as I'm pressed for time and your comments would save me modding time, hence producing a better mod. Your suggestion, no matter how silly, might actually be a good one, so don't hold back. I will gradually get more time (hopefully)in the near future. For now, however, I haven't had the time to do much work on this. However, if other people would like to contribute, I might be able to squeeze it in. Just let me know the link, and I could put it at the beginning of this thread.

Now, on to the mod. This mod was inspired from the thought "I wish that the epic game had the stuff that the conquests have", but origionally spurred from "Geez! This Artemis Temple isn't too valuable if you lose all of the culture maturity because they won't let you build replacement temples" and "I wonder how this "OFF" button would work in this new patch. I better come up with a lame government idea". I ended up with two entirely new tech trees.

After the creation of v0.3, I noticed that most of the conquests have been integrated almost fully. I had a new ambitios goal and drafted up secret plans for v0.5 to be released after v0.4, which, until it's released, will remain that way.

For v0.4, these are the accumulative king unit abilities. As you can see, right now it's incomplete and depends upon your input.

King 1 = ?
King 2 = ?
King 3 = ?
King 4 = ?
King 5 = ?
King 6 = ?
King 7 = ?
King 8 = ?
King 9 = ?
King 10 = ?
King 11 = ?
King 12 = ?
King 13 = ?
King 14 = ?
King 15 = ?
King 16 = ?
King 17 = ?
King 18 = ?
King 19 = ?
King 20 = ?

*Note: All traits are cumulative

Here's the ancient tech tree:

(EEEEEEEEK!!! Bad screen shot. Don't worry, the arrow was fixed for Iron Working, but wasn't quite where it should have been when I took the screenshot. I'm soooo embarassed )

And the middle ages tech tree:


For those of you interested in getting the mod, here it is:

v0.2 (2.0 MB)

V0.3 (2.04 MB, doesn't need v0.2)

v0.3 fix (v0.3.2) (108 KB, needs v0.3)
NOTE: If you've already downloaded v0.3.1, you still need to download this. It also doesn't need v0.3.1

Pediaicons.txt fix (Extract to the C:\Program Files\Infrogrames Interactive\Civilization III\Conquests\Conquests\Kingtux's Greater Epic Mod\Text directory. For those of you who don't need such lavish directions, just extract it to the Text directory under my mod's data directory.)

BTW, you need C3C v1.22 in order for this to work.

Here's the brand new readme file:

 

[Hygro]

Very eurocentric, but very nice. I would love to see the final two techtrees completed.

 

[KingTux]

Yeah, I thought about doing the other two, but ran out of ideas. From here on, I probably won't be using the conquests as models. There's basically one tech that would be nice for the industrial age, and one more for the modern. Also, I was thinking about moving Advanced Flight to the modern age. Other than that, there's not much to add to the other ages. If anyone has ideas, I'm more than willing to add more to them. Besides, there's still all of those units to integrate in one way or another (another eccentric idea. If I ever get enough time to add it and complete it, I started a mod back within the first week for king units to upgrade like they do in the Sengoku scenario along this tech tree. I have a lot of mod stuff, just nothing else that I've deemed worthy of publish yet)

EDIT: I have just set up 9 out of 35 king upgrades after the Sengoku pattern (with my own variation: 20 upgrades consisting of 1 attack and 1 defence upping minimum with other things to follow, just so that they can keep up with the attack strength of the other units) and am ready to call it a night. I'll try to finish the setup tomorrow, and am speculating on releasing v0.3 with this upgrade alone (if not more)

 

[Roi du Culture]

c'est tres manifique! second time ive said this in a day; these modsa are some of the best ive seen

 

[Waseem]

hi there...
looks like a great mod...but you are missing the entire arts\civilopedia directory in your upload for your new entries...so the game is not working...

 

[Commander Bello]

Some nice ideas in the tech trees, from what I could identify at first glance.
Maybe I'll come back to you with some suggestions, if my time allows.

 

[Jurimax]

Hi there,

I haven't tried it out yet, but I was wondering... What do you do with the maximum numbers of turns to research something? Do you keep it at 50? Or do you bring it down again to 40?

Greetz Jurimax

 

[KingTux]

Waseem, I hate to break it to you, but it doen't need one. All the art for the techs is within the default C3C directory. I'd suggest checking whether you have all of your install files.

More than likely, though, I think that you have it in the wrong directory. You NEED to have it in the Conquests directory, like the readme file suggests. If not, it won't find the units, unit art, or building art. I have a version that doesn't require that for myself, but the problem is that I don't want to post copyrighted material that could get me into REAL trouble. If you'd rather have it in the scenarios directory, I'd suggest doing the copying yourself.

As for Jurimax, no, I didn't change anything like that. Most of the techs that I added were optional, so I didn't see too much of a reason to adjust it, even though I added about 1/4 more techs.

Since this thread is active still, and that I'm getting feedback, I'll try to have the next version ready for next week. So far, I've completed 28 of the 36 king units. Firaxis' king units lack attack icons, and I might be able to get to more time consuming stuff like that come summer, but for now, I'm leaving it unless someone voluntarily does them. Hopefully, in the next patch, I'll add several more techs, possibly one for the industrial, 4 or so for the ancient, and one or more to the middle ages. The king units will require me to redesign the tech trees, so I'm not making any promises yet. However, I can guarantee that at least in the next patch, that there will be no new techs for the modern age.

Anything else?

 

[Jurimax]

Two more issues:

1) What happens with the upgrade path of Catapults?
I see that Siegecraft is an optional tech.

2) I partially disagree with the fact that most techs are optional.
IMHO I wouldn't call mining and irrigation optional. And what will the AI do with those techs? Will the Ai realize that it needs those techs?

Greetz Jurimax

 

[Waseem]

it HAS to be in the conquest folder? didn't realise that....but thanks for stating it

 

[Waseem]

just a thought.... why should a moslem or eastern civilization research christianity and protestantism? it doen't make sense...but perhaps thats why you didn'y make them optional...but..its somewhat unfair at the others...probably you could include other religion specific advances for other civilizations as well...

 

[Gogf]

The scenario looks great!

One question though:

How exactly did you draw the tech arrows so that they look exactly like the Civ3 ones?

 

[KingTux]

Originally posted by Gogf
The scenario looks great!

One question though:

How exactly did you draw the tech arrows so that they look exactly like the Civ3 ones?

The best answer for this is that imitation is the best form of flattery. I used methods that I've used since CivII in pixel art to do them, not to mention cutting and pasting in certain instances.

Originally posted by Gogf
just a thought.... why should a moslem or eastern civilization research christianity and protestantism? it doen't make sense...but perhaps thats why you didn'y make them optional...but..its somewhat unfair at the others...probably you could include other religion specific advances for other civilizations as well...

This isn't my complete tree. Some techs didn't make it because I couldn't justify their practicality, but will possibly be added later, when I find a way to make them useful. For instance, I have the tech Islam right below Monotheism in that empty space. The problem is that until I come up with something for it, it's just not going to be practical.

I'll take flavors into account, but even if they're flavored, it doesn't prevent people from researching them, so it probably won't do much. Personally, I think that if a tech is flavored, that it shouldn't show up on the tech tree for those who aren't of that flavor. It also should only be able to be traded among people of the same flavor. I'd like to know other people's thoughts on the repurcussions of doing this.

Also of interest, I just drafted up a new ancient age tech line that has 6 new techs, mostly concerning the mesoamerican branch. Whether they make it into the next patch version is still debateable, as I want to release a new version this week, but if I finish the work on that, I can have one big patch concerning all of it. The problem is where to draw the line for now...

]Originally posted by Jurimax Two more issues:

1) What happens with the upgrade path of Catapults?
I see that Siegecraft is an optional tech.

2) I partially disagree with the fact that most techs are optional.
IMHO I wouldn't call mining and irrigation optional. And what will the AI do with those techs? Will the Ai realize that it needs those techs?

Greetz Jurimax

1) The catapult upgrades to the fire catapult, which then upgrades to the trebuchet. It only invades the unit upgrade tree of the catapult, changing some values on other future upgrades. Other than that, it shouldn't be too different.

2) I've been thinking about this. With as many techs that I've counted that aren't optional within the ancient era, I've come to the conclusion that I need to expand the number of turns within the game, in effect, slowing down the ancient era. I was hesatant to do this at first, as I thought that the freebie techs that you get from the various bonus tribes push you through it fast enough for me not to care so much, but I changed my mind since. As for the other part of your question, I have no idea about how the AI will behave as I haven't had enough time to play this AND create this mod. Trust me, if I knew, I'd tell you. Play a couple of games and post about which way the AI chooses to research.

 

[Waseem]

Originally posted by KingTux



I'll take flavors into account, but even if they're flavored, it doesn't prevent people from researching them, so it probably won't do much. Personally, I think that if a tech is flavored, that it shouldn't show up on the tech tree for those who aren't of that flavor. It also should only be able to be traded among people of the same flavor. I'd like to know other people's thoughts on the repurcussions of doing this.

perhaps you could do the same as they have done in the DOP mod...giving the flavoured civs a start tech which will be a prerequisite for flavour techs...germany might start the game with "Being Christian" thus Christianity has the prerequisite tech "being christian"...likewise it could be done for moslem, eastern, latin etc ... I can see the big question in here...why should germany start in 4000BC with "Being christian?"...but its just to be able to work around the game limits...

but keep up the work...its looking really good

 

[Xen]

cool!

suggestions

1) put milling before invetion if anything IMO, it would A) help make the dark and middle ages last loneger like they did in real life, and moreover, the renaissance (represented by invetion) was built upon such mechanical knowldge as that of mills (and besides, the Romans had had mills for quite a while... but then they had most of the earyly middle age tech tree in the stardard game quite a while anyway as well)

2)monarchies generally lead to oligarchies, which in turn lead to republics/democraices, in the classical western world at least- I think a similer evolution of goiverment structire would be cool

3)historically, chariots came before mounted horsemen- this was because at first, horse breeds were not strong enough to carry the full weight of a man on thier backs, though as soon as such breeds were developed, we see mounted horsemen

4)enslavement is one of, if not the oldest known real human institutions- it should be a basic tech, while crafts man ship could be bumped up to a secon or third thier tech (perhaps a sacomb o metal working and pottery?)

 

[Gogf]

Originally posted by KingTux
The best answer for this is that imitation is the best form of flattery. I used methods that I've used since CivII in pixel art to do them, not to mention cutting and pasting in certain instances.

Oh, okay. God job doing them!

Originally posted by KingTux

Originally posted by Gogf
just a thought.... why should a moslem or eastern civilization research christianity and protestantism? it doen't make sense...but perhaps thats why you didn'y make them optional...but..its somewhat unfair at the others...probably you could include other religion specific advances for other civilizations as well...

This isn't my complete tree. Some techs didn't make it because I couldn't justify their practicality, but will possibly be added later, when I find a way to make them useful. For instance, I have the tech Islam right below Monotheism in that empty space. The problem is that until I come up with something for it, it's just not going to be practical.

I never posted that, it was Waseem .

 

[KingTux]

Originally posted by Xen
cool!

suggestions

1) put milling before invetion if anything IMO, it would A) help make the dark and middle ages last loneger like they did in real life, and moreover, the renaissance (represented by invetion) was built upon such mechanical knowldge as that of mills (and besides, the Romans had had mills for quite a while... but then they had most of the earyly middle age tech tree in the stardard game quite a while anyway as well)

2)monarchies generally lead to oligarchies, which in turn lead to republics/democraices, in the classical western world at least- I think a similer evolution of goiverment structire would be cool

3)historically, chariots came before mounted horsemen- this was because at first, horse breeds were not strong enough to carry the full weight of a man on thier backs, though as soon as such breeds were developed, we see mounted horsemen

4)enslavement is one of, if not the oldest known real human institutions- it should be a basic tech, while crafts man ship could be bumped up to a secon or third thier tech (perhaps a sacomb o metal working and pottery?)

1) I'm planning on implementing the ancient tech tree and designing the middle ages tech tree today. I'll take that into account when I do. My estimated release date is either Thursday or Friday, depending on how well everything plays out. Right now, I've finished the king units. My schedule for the rest of the week is this:

Tuesday- Finish Ancient era tech tree and design Middle Ages tech tree.

Wednesday- Finish Middle Ages era tech tree and design Industrial tech tree.

Thursday- Finalization and Quality Assurance (QA'ing)

Friday- Release patch (which will just be a regular download because everything will be replaced)

2) I don't think I'll do it this way, but my methodology behind it is from my many readings of The History (If you're a history buff, you know which one I mean) in which Athens had a Monarchy before their Democracy, and Sparta's Oligarchy arose from tribal councils, NOT Monarchy. As Firaxis didn't connect Monarchy and the Republic, I didn't see a reason to. This patch will flavor Oligarchy for Mediteranean cultures, as it was born and widely practiced in that area.

3) Fixed that. It bothered me, too. This patch will also add chariotry, possibly.

4) I was thinking of this for the Mesoamerican civs. I felt like they needed organized tribes before they could sacrifice people. Besides, I'd hate to see Europeans going around and blood sacrificing any worker that they see, as this would be just too wierd.

Originally posted by Gogf
quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Originally posted by KingTux
The best answer for this is that imitation is the best form of flattery. I used methods that I've used since CivII in pixel art to do them, not to mention cutting and pasting in certain instances.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Oh, okay. God job doing them!

quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Originally posted by KingTux

quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Originally posted by Gogf
just a thought.... why should a moslem or eastern civilization research christianity and protestantism? it doen't make sense...but perhaps thats why you didn'y make them optional...but..its somewhat unfair at the others...probably you could include other religion specific advances for other civilizations as well...
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------



This isn't my complete tree. Some techs didn't make it because I couldn't justify their practicality, but will possibly be added later, when I find a way to make them useful. For instance, I have the tech Islam right below Monotheism in that empty space. The problem is that until I come up with something for it, it's just not going to be practical.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------



I never posted that, it was Waseem .

Now, if you were talking about what process I go through to connect them, that's a different story. I start with a rough draft (REAL rough). Then I use the coordinates from this draft to place the techs. Once I've done that and ensured that all the proper connections are made (so that the game doesn't crash), I start a game under it and take a screenshot with a prototype background that I made (no arrows at all). I use this copy to draw arrows on, and paste it over an existing file, so that I can steal it's pallete. After that, I cleverly paste over the techs to cleverly hide them and the end consumer never knows the difference. Also, I will try to not make that mistake again.

Origionally posted by Waseem
perhaps you could do the same as they have done in the DOP mod...giving the flavoured civs a start tech which will be a prerequisite for flavour techs...germany might start the game with "Being Christian" thus Christianity has the prerequisite tech "being christian"...likewise it could be done for moslem, eastern, latin etc ... I can see the big question in here...why should germany start in 4000BC with "Being christian?"...but its just to be able to work around the game limits...

I have absolutely no intention of doing this.

 

[Aeon221]

Sweeet. Hope good things come of this!

Willing to help, but not sure how. I guess I will just test and tell... after I finish playin about eight other games!

 

[KingTux]

I've finished the Ancient Tech Tree (sort of. Right now, I'm in the process of debating whether stone carving should be elliminated or not now that I have stone working. I'm leaning heavily towards it's ellimination as of this minute).

After this patch, I don't intend on adding any more techs to the ancient era. Another thing is that this patch doesn't have much of a king upgrade... yet. I'd like to know how you guys would like the upgrade path to go. Right now, I'm planning on making 3 king upgrades avaliable in the ancient era, 6 more in the medieval era, 6 more in the industrial era, and 4 more in the modern era. I'll have a result thingy at the end of this post.

Another big difference between this patch and the next one is that I intend to spend 2 weeks on it and release generally as much. This will give me an opportunity to spend the extra time I have playing it or doing something else. As it is, this patch is more of a loyalty patch to prove that I can get all of the work that I need to for this patch. The next patch might just be the king upgrades with a couple of other things, but might include all the extra units ahead of time, which I'm planning for the patch afterwards. After v0.4 and v0.5, I intend to have practically everything from the conquests together and to start working on adding my own stuff. Once I feel like it's good enough to call V1.0, which could easily be after v0.6 or so, I'll gladly delegate the creation process a little more.


EDIT:

For those who would like a preview, here it is:


Please note that the king units at the time of the screenshot hadn't been integrated yet.

 

[KingTux]

When the file is completely uploaded, I'll update the top. For now, I'd like to discuss the future of this mod and discuss some known problems.

Let's get started. With v0.4, I intend to have all the conquest units within the mod, in addition to the unit abilities. However, if this proves too daunting of a task, the extra units will be bumped up to v0.5. When this happens, I'm intending on using the PTW extras along with the conquest units. Also, I'm getting to a point in which I'd like to depart from my origional intention of keeping this mod small to making it a lot bigger. In fact, my goal right now is to get v0.5 anywhere between 5MB-20MB. In order for this to happen, though, I'm going to need to delegate out certain functions, hence this thread. Otherwise, I just won't have the time to be able to accomplish this goal. When I'm ready for v1.0, I intend to hand it over to the public for their own enrichment. Even though this is the plan, it doesn't mean that I will turn away anyone from contributing until then, just that I'd like to have a driving role within this mod until then.

Now, on to the known problems. For one, every building within this scenario is flavored. While I modded though, I found out fast that although Firaxis says that you caqn flavor buildings, the truth is that you can't. So, in some instances, I have 2 or more buildings doing the same thing. If there's another patch, I hope they fix this, so, in anticipation, I left the flavors on there. Another is that there might be a hard coded limit to the number of units that the game can handle, as that I added the Assassin for the Islam tech, but it never appears in the game, even though everythings linked up. This might be the case with some of the king units, too, as I haven't checked them all yet.

As an added bonus, I added some new resources last night. You may notice that some are strategic and yet have no purpose. Just so that no one mentions this, adding the resources was one of the things on my v0.4 checklist, and, as I still had extra time, I threw them in. This will be addressed within the next patch.

Another thing is that I've messed with the king unit's AI's to get them working more like they should. Anyone who's willing to playtest this for me can either play multiplayer or singleplayer, making sure to check the regicide flag. However, the second option is more preferable.

That's all that I can think of right now... Enjoy!

EDIT: I found out what was wrong with the assassin... I feel stupid for not noticing it before. The fix will be located at the top of the thread