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Group units to attack

Discusman

Chieftain
Joined
May 27, 2009
Messages
2
Hi all,

I'm new to this game and I started playing it a few days ago.

I think there is no way to capture a well defended city, I grouped bunch of catapelas and the winning ratio was still like 5.5:7.5.

My question is what's the best way to attack a strong opponent? I have been reading on this board and haven't found anything that explains this.

Thanks
 
Well, before anyone else says, I'll say it: Check out the War Academy articles.

To capture a well defended city, make sure you have strong units versus the defenders first. If you are taking swordsmen against maces, that's not a very good idea.

Second, bring siege. You said you have them, so use them to bombard the city defenses down to 0% (it's a siege unit command).

Third, if the city has week defenders and you have superior military tech, attack. OR skip to Fourth:

Fourth, use your siege to attack the city. Yes, move them into the city. Many may perish, but you will greatly weaken the defenders.

Finally, attack with your main units.

I forget where on this forum I read it, but it was a long time ago, a poster showed the power of siege to newbies by taking only catapults and I believe one archer and he conquered a city. Siege is your friend (spies are later, if your opponent has walls, but we'll save that for another time).
 
Once you get past the fact that some of your units will die attacking a city, it is actually quite easy to take them as long as you prepare appropriately - if you are at the siege weapon stage it is even easier, just make sure you keep producing lots of catapults/trebuchets (and the occasional melee/mounted units for the very rare losses they take, and some archers or whatever to occupy your new cities). You will probably lose 1-2 catapults even for lightly defended cities, and more on the main enemy cities, so you need to constantly replace them (or start with loads) or your attacks will bog down before you can achieve your objectives. A handful of catapults thrown at a city with 0% culture defense left will be able to knock all the defenders down to 50% health or less, and then you can mop those up even with bad unit matchups, or with a tech disadvantage, or against hills. All three and you might lose the odd melee unit as well - one solution is: more catapults. Get them down all the way to 25% health with a few more catapult runs and they will crumble despite all those advantages.
 
Addendum: The way I think about the Civ 4 combat system is that essentially it is what Stalin would have designed the game balance to be:

1) "Artillery is the god of war"
2) Winning through brute force of numbers is generally a dominant strategy
3) Bring more artillery
4) Expect to lose lots of soldiers in battle, so be sure you can replace them in good time
5) Don't forget those extra artillery units
6) Elite units are useful for the occasional niche operation, but mostly it is about numbers
7) ...something about Artillery, couldn't make it out
 
Thanks for your comments and I see there is no easy ways to capture a city. It seems take a lot of effort/casulties to capture it. How could you make your neighbor's city into a revolt? It happened to me once and the city just switched under my neighbor's rule without my neighbor declare war on me. I think it's a better way of capturing a city.
How would I do that?

I have another question. There are bunch of catapults and melee units in a group (within a box). Do each of the units get to attack the target within a turn? If so, they would greatly increase the damage on the target.

I visited the civfanatics war academy and the articles don't include some basic war strategies since I'm completely new to this game.
 
Thanks for your comments and I see there is no easy ways to capture a city. It seems take a lot of effort/casulties to capture it. How could you make your neighbor's city into a revolt? It happened to me once and the city just switched under my neighbor's rule without my neighbor declare war on me. I think it's a better way of capturing a city.
How would I do that?

I have another question. There are bunch of catapults and melee units in a group (within a box). Do each of the units get to attack the target within a turn? If so, they would greatly increase the damage on the target.

I visited the civfanatics war academy and the articles don't include some basic war strategies since I'm completely new to this game.

there is no bloodless war, nor is there any good way to capture a city without war
the only way to get an enemy city without war is to culture flip it, which is somewhat tricky
 
A basic digest of what the various units are most often used for is here.

Sisiutil's strategy guide is the next step up I guess, with some more detail on your military from page 18 (and in various other places, it is worth reading through pretty much all of it, you should learn a lot of useful stuff).

Then there is a lot of more specific stuff in the war academy after that, and then numerous strategy articles on almost any conceivable topic.

And of course you can ask around here for help on specific issues you are running into.
 
Thanks for your comments and I see there is no easy ways to capture a city. It seems take a lot of effort/casulties to capture it.

A couple of lost units is usually of a similar cost to build as a new settler, particularly early on when settlers are comparatively expensive, so it isn't all that bad as long as you bring the right units to fight. And the extra bonus is you get to loot some money and take land and units off the opponent, making you relatively stronger. You may have to raze captured cities sometimes though, as expanding too fast can hurt you badly - you need to develop cash boosting technologies, and develop your cities commerce production so you can afford to have larger and larger empires, as well as the technology and units to defend it and expand it at someone elses expense.

How could you make your neighbor's city into a revolt? It happened to me once and the city just switched under my neighbor's rule without my neighbor declare war on me. I think it's a better way of capturing a city.
How would I do that?

If your cities are close together then the culture that naturally expands from each of your city (if you have any culture creating buildings, or other sources of culture being created in the city like artists, or setting the culture slider up, or the creative trait) and the opponents city will come into conflict. Whoever is creating more culture will tend to slow eat into the opposing sides land, and if that reaches the actual city it will mean that the city will have a chance of revolting - when it does you lose your defenses temporarily, your units get damaged, all production is stopped, and the city can eventually even swap to the opposing side without a fight (or even war being declared).

To do the same to the AIs cities, create buildings like monuments, libraries, theatres, run artist specialists, increase the culture slider (cuts into your money and/or research rate though), etc.

Later in the game you can use spies and espionage points previously spent on a given opponent to try and send his cities into revolt temporarily, which is another way to achieve the same thing, but you probably won't need to use that for a while.

I have another question. There are bunch of catapults and melee units in a group (within a box). Do each of the units get to attack the target within a turn? If so, they would greatly increase the damage on the target.

Yes, every unit acts on its own basically - you can group up a stack of units to move them together by double clicking on them, but you should split them again before you attack so you can choose which one should attack first (the button with the green dots showing arrows splitting the group up does this). If you hold (and don't release) the right mouse button on the units you plan to attack, it tells you the odds of winning (and retreating if that might happen), then return the mouse pointer back to the stack before releasing it to avoid actually launching the attack yet. Repeat this for each of your units, and that can give you a hint of which units are best to attack with at the time.

The other things to factor in are siege units collateral damage - if you attack with a catapult for example, then you can damage most or even all of the enemies units in one attack (it can hit up to 6 enemy units, but not enemy siege units). This softens the defenders up so the next attack usually has a better chance of winning, so this is why attacking with siege units first is so important if you possibly can. Sure, you will nearly always lose a couple - and for really well protected cities, sometimes quite a few - but it means all the rest of your units will then have a fairly easy time and should be able to take the city without too much trouble.
 
The reason everyone says to use suicide siege units is because the game's combat system heavily favours healthy units over wounded ones. Yes, your catapult will die, but since it will wound a handful of units, your forces will be far more able to take the city.
 
Go up to a city with a stack of siege + non-siege. Select all of the siege units and bombard, select whatever siege units are left and attack with them, then select all of your non-siege units and take the city, simple.
 
always attack with siege, even if you have a guaranteed win. Attacking with siege gives you experience points for both siege and great generals, so the more you fight, even pointless guaranteed victories, helps in future war efforts.
 
I'd rather give that lone experience point to a shock troop in hopes of getting it to the next CR promotion than give it to a siege unit that will die eventually.
 
Except the siege unit won't kill the unit, so both the siege and the shock troop get an XP if you go siege first, as opposed to just 1 xp on the shock troop.
 
Except the siege unit won't kill the unit, so both the siege and the shock troop get an XP if you go siege first, as opposed to just 1 xp on the shock troop.
I play Vanilla, so I always forget about siege not being able to kill. :)
 
Good things come to those with lots of siege. Wiser words have seldom been spoken on these boards.

Also welcome to the boards Discusman! :beer:
 
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