Hall of Fame in MOO2

[vmxa]

I ran a test, but I am not sure of the conclusions on level and score.

Test 1:
Easy small map, 2 players.
first run I gave a number of techs to ensure it could reach the other race and defeat it.

Sent two corvettes with 4 zeon missiles.
Game ends on turn 15.

Turn 15 - 185pts
Pop 10 - 10pts
elim 1 - 50pts
tech 12 points
score 257

Test 2:
Average or whatever the next level up is, small map, 2 players.
First run gave what I hope was the same techs, but could be a slight difference.

Sent two ships, end turn 19.

Turn 19 - 181
pop 9 - 9pts
elim 1 -50pts
tech 24pts
score 264

So it may be that they had different tech level or it may be there is a level bonus for techs. I reloaded form the last save and gave all techs to both test. Launched both on t15.

Test1:
Turn 15 - 185pts (2nd run T18 - 182
Pop 10 - 10pts (same
elim 1 - 50pts (same
tech 12 points (tech 33
score 257 (275

Test2:
Turn 19 - 181 (2nd run T19 same
pop 9 - 9pts (10
elim 1 -50pts (same
tech 24pts (tech 48
score 264 (289

This looks like tech score is a function of level. However I am not sure how it is determined. The tech fields do not show a breakthrough, they show Pure Research, for any level not actually researched.

So there are differences in the two game in that regard. A third test using impossible would clarify things as the breakthroughs would be similar, but if level was a factor the score should be greater than easy by a greater amount.

The 12 vs 24 and then 33 vs 48 suggest it is level per field as it went from 12 to 33. The breakthroughs between test 1 and test 2 could not be more than 1.

By my count there are 72 breakthroughs in the game. I do not know what impact Antaran techs would cause.

I would suspect there is a multipler for tech for the difficulty level, just not sure how much. I am guessing it is 1.5 for average vs easy.

 

[El_Machinae]

wouldn't this be easier using the einstein cheat?

 

[vmxa]

I don't know, never used it and am not even sure it works. Feel free to make a run.

 

[Murky]

wouldn't this be easier using the einstein cheat?

I am not sure what the point of that would be. The whole point of the HOF is to show how well you did. With online games, when someone uses a cheat it is broadcast to the other players that they cheated.

 

[vmxa]

The point is to test weither there is any boost for tech score for the level. It is not intended to be a real game. That is why only 1 other races was used. To make the game end quickly and keep the variables down.

What I do not know is a) how the cheat works b) if it will make any difference to using an editor to get all the techs. IOW if both merely give you the tech, but you still need to research each breakthrough, then it does not matter, which way you test.

I personally have no interest in the score, but I am interested in how it function. So I will test the next level and settle the matter.

 

[vmxa]

I ran a test on impossible.

T17 - 183
Pop - 13
Elim - 50
Tech - 150
total 396

Again did not match exactly the breakthroughs, but the tech score is much higher. A real controlled test would be need to figure out the percentages for each level. Say no research after the first breakthrough.

The three test went:
Easy 33
Avg 48
Imp 150

I think I did 4 breakthroughs on the impossible, maybe only 3. Clearly there is a bonus for the level on the techs. Nothing else changes.

 

[Mr. Og]

vmxa: I cannot reproduce your results. I have tested version 1.31 (both Windows and DOS) and v1.40b2.
I have been doing a lot of tests to get the correct formulas for all scoring categories and no matter what I try, the score for the tech is the same regardless of difficulty level.
What version are you using and what starting options?

 

[vmxa]

I use 1.31. How are you running the test? You want to use the same size map, the same race traits and the same planets, if any. I mean that if you start with no other planets in the system, do that for all test. If you have 1 large with the home planet, do that.

Give the same techs in each test and try to end at the same turn. It should not matter, if end is not exactly the same or the pop as they are seperate scores anyway. You want to be as close as you can though.

BTW if you give all techs, you still have to research each field at each level. The starting options can be any you want as long as they are the same in all test. Ideally 1 race to keep it simple and be able to end on the same turn.

 

[Mr. Og]

You want to use the same size map

I have.

the same race traits and the same planets

I have.

Give the same techs in each test

I don't "give" techs, I research them.

The starting options can be any you want as long as they are the same in all test. Ideally 1 race to keep it simple and be able to end on the same turn.

That's exactly what I have done.

I suspect that the editor you are using is screwing up the tech results. Try it without the editor. If you don't want to wait for each game to finish, you can use the Alt+ cheat codes to speed up the process.

 

[vmxa]

Well I don't know. Like I said at the start, I always thought the level had no impact on the score. The test may be invalid, but at best it only shows an impact on the tech score. A small part of the overall score.

I will be a long time getting back to this as I have gotten several new games in the last month and just got Civ5 yesterday.

If the level has no impact on even the tech scores, you should be able to play a game out with any settings and just milk it to you have researched all techs as a creative. Do that for at least two levels of difficulty and see if the tech portion is the same.

It would have to be the same, regardless of all other factors or else level does have an impact. The only thing that needs to be the same is creative. This ensures all runs have the same techs and all techs. Do not capture Orion nor use Antarans (no cpatured tech).

 

[Mr. Og]

If the level has no impact on even the tech scores, you should be able to play a game out with any settings and just milk it to you have researched all techs as a creative. Do that for at least two levels of difficulty and see if the tech portion is the same.

It would have to be the same, regardless of all other factors or else level does have an impact. The only thing that needs to be the same is creative. This ensures all runs have the same techs and all techs. Do not capture Orion nor use Antarans (no cpatured tech).

As I have said, I tested this many times, with different difficulty levels, with or without creative, and with or without Antaran tech. It seems the tech score is not affected by any game settings whatsoever.

I will publish my conclusions here soon.

 

[Mr. Og]

Maybe I haven't done enough tests to be 100% sure of these formulas. If you know better, please correct me.
Here goes:

Turn numbers score:
Time (X turns) = [players*(80+20*galaxy_size)] - turns

• players: Number of players.
  NOTE: this is the number of players, not the number of opponents (I.E. yourself included).
• galaxy_size: Galaxy size; small,medium,large,huge = 1,2,3,4 respectively.
• turns: Number of turns played.

Maximum possible at the first turn is: 8*(80+20*4) = 1280.

Population score:
X Population = Number of colonists at the end (captured colonists included).

Eliminated score:
X Players eliminated = 50*players_Eliminated (self explanatory).

Maximum possible is: 50*7 = 350.

Captured score:
X Captured Colonists = size_modifier*captured (rounded down)

• size_modifier: Galaxy size modifier; small,medium,large,huge = 2,1,(2/3), 0.5 respectively.
• captured: Number of captured colonists. Captured colonists are population of another race that you have captured or mind controlled.
  NOTE: It doesn't matter if you annihilate the captured pop, or give them with the system as a gift, in fact, if you conquer a planet then offer it as a gift and recapture it the next turn you get the captured score again. You can do this an infinite number of times for a theoretical infinite score (I consider this cheating and never use it).

Tech/Research score:
Technology = (3*cat) + (5*hyper_advanced1)

• cat: Research categories completed up to Hyper Advanced, this includes categories obtained by getting all of their technologies via espionage/ground conquest/diplomacy etc. It doesn't matter how many technology applications there are in a category (if you are creative), all categories give 3 points to your score, regardless of difficulty or any other setting.
  For example: if you are creative and you research Advanced Biology (Cloning Center, Death Spores, Soil Enrichment) you get 3 points to your score and all the 3 techs. I you are not creative, you get only 1 tech (E.G. Soil Enrichment) but still get the 3 points to your score.
  NOTE1: Pre-warp starts with 2 categories researched, Average starts with 7 and Advanced with 26. There are a total of 74 categories up to Hyper Advanced.
  NOTE2: Antaran technology (either from Orion or from scrapping captured Antaran ships) does not count towards your score in any way.
• hyper_advanced1: This is the first Hyper Advanced (Abbrev. HA) research of each category. Only the first HA of each category counts towards your score (each gives +5).
  NOTE: Even though the second HA does not give you any more score points it still counts as a refitment level as per the five-level miniaturization rules. The sixth level of HA is useless, though (AFAIK).

Maximum possible is: 3*74 + 5*8 = 262.

Orion score:
Captured Orion = You get 100 points if you defeat the Guardian.

Antaran Homeworld score:
Defeating Antaran Homeworld = You get 250 points if you defeat the Antarans.
NOTE: You can defeat the Antaran homeworld and eliminate players in the same turn thus getting maximum score from both.

Council score:
Won Council Vote = You get 100 points if you win by council vote.
NOTE: You can defeat the Antaran homeworld and win by council vote in the same turn. You can also eliminate players as long as you leave at least 3 players (you+2) which are required to incur the elections.

Score Modifier:
Total Score = score * (1+picks_left*0.1)

• score: Your unmodified score, composed of all the above categories.
• picks_left: Unused racial picks, which are given in custom race creation.

Maximum possible is: 10 default + 10 from penalties + 4 from the " Evolutionary Mutation" research = 340%



To conclude, here's an example of the score screen:





*All tests were done with version 1.31

 

[vmxa]

Nice job. I went back to look at my old notes and I see where I had run test on different levels and the tech score was always 262. Not sure what happen on my abbreviate test.

So I was correct the first time, when I said levle did not matter, should have looked at my files to start. I did not realize I had runs from several levels.

 

[scratchthepitch]

NOTE: Even though the second HA does not give you any more score points it still counts as a refitment level as per the five-level miniaturization rules. The sixth level of HA is useless, though (AFAIK).

Thanks for the write up. I didn't know the miniaturization of components stops at 5 levels beyond the tech the item is from. Thought the miniaturization continued with each new tech in the same category irregardless of how many levels one researched. Useful info that.

 

[Mr. Og]

Thanks vmxa.
I wouldn't say that the difficulty level does not matter, though, maybe not for the numerical score, but I'd like to think of it this way: It matters so much that it got its own category in the hall of fame After all, now one can argue that any score achieved on Impossible is better than any other score that wasn't.

scratchthepitch: You're welcome. For more info you can check out:
http://www.gamefaqs.com/pc/197873-master-of-orion-ii-battle-at-antares/faqs/16743 (section 11)
http://strategywiki.org/wiki/Master_of_Orion_II/Warship_technologies#Miniaturization

Some more thoughts I'd like to share with you:
First, some tips on how to maximize you score (This is intended for inexperienced players as veterans should know these guidelines by heart):

• When you start, save the game and then use the ISEEALL cheat to make sure at least 1 player has the Subterranean racial ability. Then reload the saved game (you may consider this cheating).
• Load the save in a utility, such as Sundiver's MapLeveler, and make sure you have a decent number of planetary systems (you may consider this cheating).
• For game settings use: Huge galaxy, 8 players and Antarans Attack (Advanced Tech level can help with turn numbers).
• Custom create a race with 20 unused picks (300% score).
• Make sure races do not get wiped out by other players.
• Conquer a Subterranean race and breed them, try to have all colonies use this race for population.
• Capture Orion.
• Research all techs up to the fifth level of Hyper Advanced.
• Get the "Evolutionary Mutation" tech by all means possible.
• Terraform and Gaia-Transform every planet.
• Destroy and rebuild all planets smaller than "large" and all Toxic planets.
• Do not leave a single planet uncolonized. Colonize each to the max population.
• Defeat the Antaran homeworld in conjunction with eliminating the last race.
• Have fun .

If you micro-manage the hell out of the game and manage to do all the above in less than 300 turns, you may go beyond 30000 points. Note that this kind of game could take many months.

Also, I recently noticed something that I think is a bug: When you transport captured alien colonists to one of your colonies which is at full capacity the colonists don't die, they expand the max population of the planet (I've had medium planets with over 50 pop this way), however, this is very buggy and will most likely make the game crash. If you've seen this discussed anywhere, I'll be happy to get a link.

 

[vmxa]

Don't know anythong about ISEEALL or Maplevel. Never going to play for max score again as it is way to tedious for even me. Mostly I get to about 6 or 8 systems and then just kill off everyone as fast as I can to end it.

 

[El_Machinae]

Well, I often play to a 'theme' now, decided at the beginning of each game. Trying to maximize captured population (i.e., few of my own people) or to Stellar Convert as many systems as possible.

 

[MooFun]

So, here is my try for max score.
MoO2 went quite buggy at end, and had to do save game every other turn abouts.. 1st bug triggered when had 63 spys attaking and other 63 defending, and few colonies producing more spies. 2nd bug type came when few planets were in some kind error mode when making more colony bases, and had to make 1 colony base at time that was like turns 390 to 430 until every star system was full of colonies.
Last bug happened after killing antareans with boarder doomstar fleet (Antarean Star Fortress captured as well.. ). High score couldn't be registered into Hall Of Fame, 31500+ ones (High score cap..).
So I had to take bit earlier saved game and finish Antarans that time to make recordable 31.3k abouts. Had subterranean (total=240%), luckily captured Evolutionary Mutation from Psilon (last race to be around..) or from Orion and got +40% (total=280%). Everything took around 30 hours game time I think, all planets were about huge/large + gaia + biospheres (=42pop each).
Ps. Screen captures have odd colours, I don't know why.
http://img600.imageshack.us/i/moo2maxscore.jpg/

 

[vmxa]

Well, I often play to a 'theme' now, decided at the beginning of each game. Trying to maximize captured population (i.e., few of my own people) or to Stellar Convert as many systems as possible.

Seems like a good way to spice things up.

 

[vmxa]

"MooFun"

"MoO2 went quite buggy at end, and had to do save game every other turn abouts.. 1st bug triggered when had 63 spys attaking and other 63 defending, and few colonies producing more spies. 2nd bug type came when few planets were in some kind error mode when making more colony bases, and had to make 1 colony base at time that was like turns 390 to 430 until every star system was full of colonies."

"were about huge/large + gaia + biospheres (=42pop each).
Ps. Screen captures have odd colours, I don't know why."

I have read a number of reports on the old Poly and Atari boards of strange bugs, when Corion was used.

I think the max score is 31559, but I forget where I got that number.

It requires 249 planets to get 10447 pop and all that in 517 turns. I never seen the game put up more than 173 planets.