Hall of Fame

shadowdale

CFC Drunkard
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I have a question!!
When you read the "how" on Roger Hoffman's high score in Deity level he says that he created the map himself! What I want to know is whether or not that is considered cheat?
And if it no, what is cheat??
To reload every time something does not go right?
To save in the beginning and use the cheat menu to look at the map??
To play a multi game with 2xresources and move and then later open it as a single player and complete it as one??
To edit those files with the rules??

The reason I'm asking is that I am considering to try for the Deity high score, but I want to know what is cheating and what is not??? If I can create my own map, then I believe that I stand a good chance, if not, then it might take several games!!!

!sniper!
 
When you read the "how" on Roger Hoffman's high score in Deity level he says that he created the map himself! What I want to know is whether or not that is considered cheat?

well, custom maps are acceptable for the Hall of Fame, although random maps are preferred. A game played on a custom map is not as impressive as a game played on a random one. Roger Hoffman apparently spent lots of time & effort to get a score this high, so I think it's not very fair to him if I don't add his game to the HOF.

And if it no, what is cheat??
To reload every time something does not go right?
To save in the beginning and use the cheat menu to look at the map??
To play a multi game with 2xresources and move and then later open it as a single player and complete it as one??
To edit those files with the rules??

All these are consdered cheating(reloading several times throughtout game is acceptable, but it's cheating if u reload too often)

I hope this answered your question.
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If you allow premade maps then saving and using cheat to reveal map for a looksy can't be a cheat.
I would consider reloading huts a MAJOR cheat for this type of game.

The powergraph can usually tell you if the score has been cheated.I know what a 20,000 points+ powergraph looks like and some of them in the HoF are "unusual"
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Well I, myself consider using a map you created cheating. but ya know. All the others you listed is cheating i believe.

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I found out about this site just recently and the first thing I did was to ask Thunderfall if that's fair and if it would make sense to divide the HOF in like custom and random maps. So actually I'm working on three games right now, one custom (which is really boring to play, even more when you save/load all the time, so I don't do it), one with the world and one random.
Actually that's why I never played a custom map before and now found out about the 256 city limit.
confused.gif

Anybody interested in the map I use, so everybody starts even?

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From all the things I lost, I miss my mind the most.
-Hacker
 
Well I don't think that I have the patients to begin creating my own map, and I would rather play against other people that using several months in futile attempts to get the Deity high score, I think that I'll try for the Prince, that's easier!!

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S.P.Q.R.
 
I think reloading should be illegal no matter how many times you do it. When I say reloading I don't mean loading the game to continue it. I mean something happens that you don;t like and you quit, and then load the game to play it over.

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"Easy environments present no challenge to Man: it is the hard country that stimulates him to creative action." -- Arnold Toynbee

The matter of starting on a premade map is not so much a question of cheating as it is defiling the entire game itself. If one begins a game of Civilization with a ready-made map that will facilitate rather than challenge the emergence and growth of your civilization, then not only are you not playing Civilization; you do not even understand the concept of Civilization.

Central to the advance of Civilization has been the mastery of nature. From the dawn of civilization, when the first agriculturalists colonized the alluvial plains of Mesopotamia, to the early Greeks who brought forth the glory of the Periclean Age from the mountainous shores of the Aegean Sea; from the Europeans who emerged from the Dark Ages to transform the forests of Europe into the crucible of a world civilization, to the American settlers who transformed the "Great American Desert" into the "Breadbasket of the World" -- the progress of civilization has been the arduous expansion of human society into the wilds of the world. And throughout all, there has been war and
strife over the control of land and its natural resources.

This reflection begs the question: If you do not want the challenge of leading
your civilization through the trials and tribulations in history, why bother
playing in deity mode? After all, by avoiding the challenges of Civilization,
you are not really playing Civilization in the first place.

And a couple of more pointed comments: To President Tiago of the Brazilians: starting against two civilizations, and with one of them on a rock! There's a challenge worthy of a "Deity!"

And to Roger Hofmann, who wrote (in a write-up that provides nothing new in terms ploys and tactics):

"The computer civs tend to build cities that have overlapping squares. You want to destroy these cities, not take them over (except if they contain a wonder). Poison the water supply to reduce the population to one, sabotage the city walls, and then use a military attack to finish the job."

Destroying the cities of opposing civilizations is the mark of a bad player; for a statement like this, you demonstrate that you are worthy of Barbarian leader (i.e., 150 gold), not a representative of Civilization. If only there was a Hall of Fame for Barbarians ... The only reason that I can see for employing such tactics is to slow opposing civilizations from developing nuclear weapons, since they have no qualms about using them, regardless of whether their leader is "civilized, rationalistic, and perfectionistic." It is a lamentable practice I look forward to discontinuing in CIV3.

As for the entire "Hall of Fame" debate, games that use premade maps, especially those designed to obtain high scores should not even be considered; they encourage bad play, and demean the efforts of good players! Sorry Thunderbolt, but I must disagree; there are players who spend a lot of time playing this game the way it was designed to be played, and it is unfair to them to include Roger Hofmann's score in the Hall of Fame.

Perhaps my statements reflect a specific style and philosophy of playing this
game, but as Macaulay wrote, "As civilization advances, poetry almost necessarily
declines."

 
The reason I started this topic was because I think that playing for a high score on a premade map is cheating - when I downloaded the #1 deity game from the hall of fame and saw it - I was amazed the he was allowed to get it in there, and that was when I thought that if that was allowed then I could also do it!!
I did try to make map, but sitting hours in front of your computer screen making a "perfect" map was just to much and after 10 minutes I stopped and started playing on a random map. I made a few attempts to begin a game that might put my in first place but somehow I never really had it in me. I used several months to get the two high scores that I have and I just didn't want to lock myself in a house and do that again.

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S.P.Q.R.
 
What I find remarkable about this debate is that so many still find it interesting and challenging to play against the AI.

The game has been out there since 96 and I guess most civfanatics should have had the time to learn how to beat the ai on all settings and difficulty levels.

I played my first multiplayer game in 1999 and since then I don't think I have ever played a single-player game. It's just much more fun to play against real totally unpredictable opponents.

Well, to conclude in my opinion the player who arrives on top of the civfanatics ladder deserves much more glory than any on the single-player HOF.
 
I've never played a multi-player game of Civ2. It sounds intriguing, but I fear that the time constraints of my life preclude my participating in a multiplayer version. (I have a hard enough time playing the classic Diplomacy by e-mail!) Therefore, when I have the time, I continue to play Civ2 Classic and look forward to Civ3.

Nonetheless, Cadidavid's idea of a Hall of Fame for multiplayer games sounds like an excellent idea! (Far more worthy than a seperate Hall of Fame for custom-made maps).
 
I reckon if you just want to rort the game and get the biggest score possible, then your allowed to do anything but use the cheat menu.

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I am disrespectful to Dirt! Can you not see that I am serious?
 
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