Haughty AIs that won't accept peace

Megalou

Thez worlds are not enuf
Joined
Jan 22, 2002
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Hello! I'm an old Civ3-4 fan who has fairly recently delved into Civ5. I play at the deity level, beating the AI at the immortal level using fairly easy building tactics with some "expansive" military build-ups thrown in. But I often end up with a crimson bottom on Deity, winning only once so far, playing Russia.

I think Civ5 is great because it's well balanced. In comparison, I found that short cut recipes and exploits paid off much more in Civ3. The only thing I find a bit unbalanced or, well, silly, is negotiating peace in Civ5 deity. Just because the AIs have a lot more military in total than I do, they want to stay at war with me for millennia on end. The peace offers they make are ridiculous. Never mind that I pick off all their attacking units with ease, using the task forces that I consider affordable in terms of shields and maintaining my city growth priority. (One of the few deity tips that I have taken to heart is the 'build tall' principle, keeping my cities few to start with, and defendable.) Never mind also, that I have allies or geographical boundaries that keep my enemies away.

I may be wrong, but I think the AI's stubborn rejection of peace is unbalanced and unfun. So I have two questions on that: 1. Do the upgrades help against it? 'Cause I haven't upgraded from the out-of-the-box version yet, although I have played a few hundred hours now. 2. Is there an in-game remedy, other than 'Build tons of military so that the AI are impressed by your total number of units' which I do not like?

I have not searched through the threads already written, so I'd appreciated links to good threads as well as written answers.

At the moment I'm playing Aztecs, since I like their UU and the slight boost it can provide in the early stages, and the earning of culture from defeating enemies. I am primarily interested in domination or cultural victories. I always play pangea.
 
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I assume when you say "upgrades" you mean Gods and Kings and Brave New World. I wouldn't dream of playing without them. They radically improve the game.

Getting "dogpiled" is usually the result of poor diplomacy. You need to bribe the AIs to fight each other. An important strategy is bribing your intended opponent to fight other people as much as possible so that when you declare war on them it is seen as a public service, not unwarranted aggression. You are seen as opposing the main troublemaker in the world.
 
Just because the AIs have a lot more military in total than I do, they want to stay at war with me for millennia on end. The peace offers they make are ridiculous.

If they offer peace and demand a lot of things from you, you can use an exploit called "White peace" and simply ask for a peace treaty where neither part gives anything, and they will accept. Firaxis never fixed this exploit so many people abuse it without thinking too much of it. i.e as long as the game allows it, it's fair game.

2. Is there an in-game remedy, other than 'Build tons of military so that the AI are impressed by your total number of units' which I do not like?

Aside from increasing your own "Soliders" value by building lots of military units and keeping all your armies healed (they count less when injured), you can try decreasing his value instead, by bribing other civs to attack the civ that you want peace with, and allying CSs that are in vicinity of your enemy, so that they help to kill off enemy armies. Other than that, the remedy is to not get in such a situation, for example, by bribing your enemy to always be at war with somebody else. Civ 5 AIs are much less likely to declare war when they are already at war with another civilization. Or, sometimes, to ask him to jointly go at war against a 3rd party. Very aggressive civs often accept such proposals.
What I like to do sometimes is to attack the enemy before he has the chance to prepare to attack me. I suspect that Civ 5 AI has better tactics when preparing to go at war, than they do while actually being at war. I am not sure why this is the case. When I have an aggressive neighbour I like to declare war on him before he does it, and he seems to play worse. For example he might bring his units one by one instead of coming with all his army at once. Also, by declaring war on a civ, you nullify the chances that he will ask somebody else to go at war together vs you. So you end up with 1 enemy instead of 2.
 
Thank you! A great restart for me in the forum! I'll have plenty to read. About the 'White peace', @Tiberiu , I don't think it works on my vanilla installation or I would have stumbled upon it. It seems like a pretty bad bug, because how should we know if we "deserve" peace or are simply given it by mistake by the AI? But maybe domination experts don't crave peace very often. I crave it sometimes because I am still a builder to a large extent and I don't like missing out on the 1:1 luxury deals.

But too much building does tend to create dull phases in the game.

Thanks also for the advise to upgrade & all the links.
 
It seems like a pretty bad bug, because how should we know if we "deserve" peace or are simply given it by mistake by the AI?

We can check to see if we "deserve" the peace by pressing the "What will make this deal work" button and if the AI says that he is OK with simple peace, then the deal is legit. If he asks for something then we can know that we are using the exploit if we choose to make white peace.

I crave it sometimes because I am still a builder to a large extent and I don't like missing out on the 1:1 luxury deals.

Yes but don't forget that if you overcome a civilization you can get a lot of their goods in a peace deal. Makes war very profitable... I mean, it's nice to trade luxuries 1:1 but it's even nicer when for example you get 3 free luxuries or 50 gold per turn in a peace deal :D.

But too much building does tend to create dull phases in the game.

I agree, it's always nice to have an army, especially a well-promoted one. And to capture tasty capitals with many World Wonders inside...

About playing Vanilla version of the game, I think it would be very good if you would try out the game with both expansions. Many things were added and the product is more polished. Too many to mention...
 
As I recall, the AIs were less negotiable in Vanilla and GnK.

Vanilla got boring for me pretty quick. I agree it is a good introduction to the new UI. OTOH, I was on GnK for much longer than most. With the benefit of hindsight, I wish I upgraded to BNW sooner than I did, as it buffs all the game aspects I enjoyed with GnK.

My recommendation is one game in Vanilla. Two or three games in GnK. Then switch to BNW. Also, do not worry about working your way up to Deity until you switch to BNW.

I made the mistake of trying to win regularly at Deity with GnK (before trying BNW). That was a waste of time. GnK never was balanced the way BNW is now.
 
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