Having Difficulty Bumping Up...Difficulty

[RakeWorm]

I just recently started playing Civ V. I purchased the Gold edition, so I am playing with all the content through G&K. I used to play Civ IV quite a bit, but I was not a very versatile player - I had specific build orders I almost always followed, and relied heavily on Darius' UU. I was eventually able to reliably play on Immortal with Civ IV.

I'm having issues with Civ V when I bump the difficulty over Prince. I seem to be timing my military buildup terribly. The trade-off early on between having a military, having infrastructure, expanding, and going for quick tech are screwing with me. I either become relatively powerful militarily very early before stagnating technologically and happiness-wise, or I get a great infrastructure early but become militarily too weak to withstand double-teams by AIs later on.

Usually, something has become seriously unbalanced in my civilization by the time the medieval era hits. I've been reading guides up here, and they will help me in the area they discuss - but always somehow at the detriment to another area. I have not been able to figure out a balanced approach.

tl;dr - I can't get to medieval on a difficulty much higher than Prince before falling behind in "some" category.

 

[Forkandles]

Maybe you need to concentrate on diplomacy a bit more. You can fully focus on your economy and infrastructure if you dont have to build units.

Some easy tips in that regard:

Caravans to your bordering neighbours usually provoke a lot of goodwill. My first two caravans are definitely targetted at my neighbours to try and get them to make a declaration of friendship. If you get a DOF before your third and fourth cities are up you can even place them in locations that you know they wont like but will just have to put up with it now

At the first World Congress propose the Worlds Fair. Most will love it, none will hate it. You will usually get more DOFs here from the friendly guys who dont border you.

At the second World Congress propose Historical Landmarks. Everyone loves it.

If you have a bordering neighbour and the caravan didnt get a DOF from him, keep a scout out for a troop build up near your borders. Bribe him to attack someone else instead when you see trouble brewing. Or even pre-emptively if you can find a good deal bribe someone else to attack him even earlier.

Once you finish tradition and take consulates (and pledge to protect all CS's), the military CS's in the game will supply you enough units to garrison all your cities. Its at this point I start deleting my warriors and archers. Building The Oracle wonder gets you to consulates much faster too.

Its almost never worth agreeing to declare war on someone when an AI asks you to do it. Youll ruin the target as a trade partner and get warmongerer hate from the other Civs. I think 1 out of 100 of these requests do I agree to either because I was going to declare anyway or because Im scared of the guy asking me declaring on me and I cant get him to war by any other means.

 

[RakeWorm]

Maybe you need to concentrate on diplomacy a bit more. You can fully focus on your economy and infrastructure if you dont have to build units.

Some easy tips in that regard:

Caravans to your bordering neighbours usually provoke a lot of goodwill. My first two caravans are definitely targetted at my neighbours to try and get them to make a declaration of friendship. If you get a DOF before your third and fourth cities are up you can even place them in locations that you know they wont like but will just have to put up with it now

At the first World Congress propose the Worlds Fair. Most will love it, none will hate it. You will usually get more DOFs here from the friendly guys who dont border you.

At the second World Congress propose Historical Landmarks. Everyone loves it.

If you have a bordering neighbour and the caravan didnt get a DOF from him, keep a scout out for a troop build up near your borders. Bribe him to attack someone else instead when you see trouble brewing. Or even pre-emptively if you can find a good deal bribe someone else to attack him even earlier.

Once you finish tradition and take consulates (and pledge to protect all CS's), the military CS's in the game will supply you enough units to garrison all your cities. Its at this point I start deleting my warriors and archers. Building The Oracle wonder gets you to consulates much faster too.

I've been reading/told that Liberty should always be the first SP, in virtually every situation. Are you referring to Tradition as the second SP, or do you think that the Liberty-love is overstated?

 

[Forkandles]

I think what youre reading is way out of date. Tradition 3 or 4 cities start is the best by far imo and most popular currently too

 

[Matoro]

sup

That is G&K -topic, isn't this? Caravans and world congress shouldn't help then.

First, let's face the truth. On higher difficulties than prince, you will fall behind. You start much behind others. I usually can get into same level with AI during renessaince on emperor. The thing you need is science. Focus on science. Expand fast, research writing ASAP. A little unhappiness (0-9) in expanding phase won't do any bad, just grab good lands. Try to make friends. Try to maintain friendship. Bribe AI:s to war each other. Those won't save you from invasion, so be prepared. Don't bother with many melees. If you're going to defend, focus on archers. Just try to stay out of the AI:s way until you're having the best or second best literacy - and I'm talkign about king-emperor level, not immortal+. Science is the key to any victory. With more science you can have better army, more productive cities, more science and more gold. Don't bother Wonders until you're ahead in tech. After you've ut-teched others, you can really just pick the wonders from the tech tree you want.

Science - and therefore population growth - is the most important thing. All other comes behind.

 

[RakeWorm]

That is G&K -topic, isn't this? Caravans and world congress shouldn't help then.

First, let's face the truth. On higher difficulties than prince, you will fall behind. You start much behind others. I usually can get into same level with AI during renessaince on emperor. The thing you need is science. Focus on science. Expand fast, research writing ASAP. A little unhappiness (0-9) in expanding phase won't do any bad, just grab good lands. Try to make friends. Try to maintain friendship. Bribe AI:s to war each other. Those won't save you from invasion, so be prepared. Don't bother with many melees. If you're going to defend, focus on archers. Just try to stay out of the AI:s way until you're having the best or second best literacy - and I'm talkign about king-emperor level, not immortal+. Science is the key to any victory. With more science you can have better army, more productive cities, more science and more gold. Don't bother Wonders until you're ahead in tech. After you've ut-teched others, you can really just pick the wonders from the tech tree you want.

Science - and therefore population growth - is the most important thing. All other comes behind.

So you advocate rolling with a tall strategy, with that last sentence of yours? Or are you referring to population growth just early on? I usually start avoiding growth at 6 population on all cities but two.

 

[Forkandles]

Sorry yeah I play BNW, never played GnK.

 

[RakeWorm]

Sorry yeah I play BNW, never played GnK.

It's all good. I haven't purchased BNW yet since all of the people I periodically play MP with only play G&K. I'll eventually pick it up, unless Europa IV takes over my whole gaming world. Which it might. =P I'm trying to split my time between Civ V and EU IV now.

 

[Walter R]

No expert myself but I can say with confidence:

1. Ultimately science is key - prioritise tech.
2. You don't have to be the highest military strength but you do need enough of the right type of units - mainly ranged.

So if I understood your post it was about the balance/build order? Well there are lots of posts from experienced gamers on the Forum on things such as first 100 turns strategies etc. and I think most people favour:

1. Starting with tradition policy (and I think most people complete the tree)
2. beelining writing and philosophy and getting the NC built early
3. beelining Xbows
4. beelining Education and getting Uni's built

I've often read that a good rough guide is to alternately build military units and other things, and that ceratinly seems to play out in the early game. I think after that it is more heavily influenced by the type of VC you are going for (as are a lot of other things) and also the Civ you've chosen.

I'm fairly comfy on King (apart from the occasional wobble) but I haven't got far with Emperor yet. My advice is trawl through the threads, there's some great stuff.

 

[Walter E Kurtz]

In addition to the good tips above, you don't need a huge military.

1. Settle on hills. Always.
2. Try to use mountains / rivers / hills / forest to your advantage. Everything that slows the enemy down so you have time to snipe them with your ranged unit.
2. Don't forward settle. If there's a good spot for a city, but it's 15 hexes away on flat lands into the territory of an aggressive neighbour, don't go there.
3. Walls. Build them.

This is more than enough to repel an attack with only a few ranged units, even on Deity.

 

[Syailendra]

so you play GnK, and you want to play well on prince? Or higher than prince?
ATM, i will try to explain on prince diff for GnK (as much as i can remember), a good civ to play at prince diff is any civ with science boost (babylon and korea is easy choice) or the ones with early gold surplus (arabia, songhai), and one more that i want to suggest, RUSSIA.
Russia is good to learn about trading, as they have double strategic resources. As you progresses higher in difficulty, you'll gonna needs to trade more and more, try to take every piece of gold from every ai to fuel your country. You need to know that 1 luxury resource can be traded to maximal 240 gold pieces to an AI. While 1 strategic to max 45 gold. Prince ai is usually have 45 gold pieces, while 240 is unlikely, so in prince, russia is the king (or should i say queen) of trading. As russia, you needs to research animal husbandry quickly, i'd say as second tech after potterx, the writing as third. Liberty is good in GnK, not as good as tradition, but still good, take liberty and go for free worker as second sopol. As soon as you have improve a horse tile, try to sell them, you can spare 2 of then to yourself if you luckily got 4 horses tile(nets you 8 horses, then sell 6). To add that, you'll also be able to sell embassy for 25 gold, and later open border for 50 gold. Also sell any more horses and extra luxuries when possible. Use the money to buy libraries, meanwhile you should research philosophy, and build national colledge ASAP.
After philosophy, research iron, and improve and sell the irons, sell them all, you won't need them until you can build frigates. The money can go to buy military units, 4 archers and 2 horsemen is enouh to make a stand.
For wonders, all you need early is the oracle, build it, you may want to use your great engineer from liberty finisher to rush hagia sophia, and got a great prophet to find a religion, mind that if you do this, you only need to build shrine at capital, no more.
That should be enough for now, if you have more question, fire away.

 

[Js_9001]

I usually start avoiding growth at 6 population on all cities but two.

I think this is part of your problem. You shouldn't be doing that, population growth is very important.

Edit: The plus sign above the post doesn't mean anything, typo.

 

[Js_9001]

Also, some advice:

At low levels, and higher ones too, a good start can be really powerful. Some good things are to:
Get Writing and the Great Library early, then use the free tech to get to Philosophy for a quick National College. This will give you a good tech lead.

Pledge to protect all city states (say "You will pay for this" if they get bullied/attacked, 20 influence drop not worth it for a minor diplo hit.) This with patronage + aesthetics (G+K)/ consulates (BNW) will give you auto friend status with all city strates.

After tradition/liberty, get patronage+aesthetics/consulates and then all of rationalism. Rationalism is very good since tech is so important. To maximize the benefits, do lots of research agreements.

For military, range units are better. For promotions Range and Logistics are best. There are also some specific units you should use a lot because they're very good, and time attacks with hitting the tech for them and then building a bunch. These are: Composite bowmen, crossbows, frigates, battleships (range advantage), artillery (range advantage), and Great War bombers (advantage of flight before the enemy has it with tech advantage).

I'm not an expert, but I think this is all good advice, and it has helped me advance through levels (on Emperor right now).

 

[RakeWorm]

Okay, so it sounds like I am doing five major things incorrectly: slowing down pop growth at 6, settling on flatlands, building too many melee units, not getting libraries out fast enough, and using a Liberty start.

And for those that asked, I am trying to get my starts good enough for King+. I can play fine on Prince. I've just found the 4 city Tradition start thread, so I think that + tips in this thread will help me quite a bit. We'll see how it goes tonight when I can play next.

Thanks, folks.

 

[joshua43214]

Okay, so it sounds like I am doing five major things incorrectly: slowing down pop growth at 6, settling on flatlands, building too many melee units, not getting libraries out fast enough, and using a Liberty start.

And for those that asked, I am trying to get my starts good enough for King+. I can play fine on Prince. I've just found the 4 city Tradition start thread, so I think that + tips in this thread will help me quite a bit. We'll see how it goes tonight when I can play next.

Thanks, folks.

You just listed 5 of the most common mistakes that players make. The next (and maybe most common after not micro managing) is not having enough workers.

Welcome to king
You should get to Emperor easily next

 

[nightspydk]

Just beat huge map max ai on immortal and totally skipped tradition. Key is with my play style to stay on the good side of the ai. Avoid conflicts maybe with a bribe yes. Also I build all the wonders I got with engeners except stonehedge to get a religion. The key is to stay friendly with the neighbors. Also I conserved a lot of jungle in my capitol. Obviously you need a prime piece of land. Don't worry to much about science until you get settled with a bit of defense. Later on science agreements all over and you'll move forward so spend you $ carefully. Important to pick the right friends also. Freedom with the liberty statue is awesome when you allocate specialists. Did 500+ science a turn in the capital when I quit.

Hope there are something of use there.

 

[RakeWorm]

You just listed 5 of the most common mistakes that players make. The next (and maybe most common after not micro managing) is not having enough workers.

Welcome to king
You should get to Emperor easily next

Yes, things are going much much better now. I'm sitting quite well at 100 turns right now. (I played several games up to 100 turns to get the start down better.)

What type of microing is the most important, besides swapping to production 1 turn before growth?

 

[nightspydk]

Swap to a tile that you are improving 1 turn before it is completed.

I also check every city 2 turns before growth to see if I can get it down to one. It often pays you'll see.
The tile you occupy after a growth will count towards production/food/gold etc in the same turn.

 

[joshua43214]

I am fairly lazy about micro managing for play at high level. I just put a city on production focus and work my best food tiles until I have at least 5 pop, and often until I have 12 pop. If you watch LP's from top players you will see them go into the city nearly every turn and fiddle with the micro managing to see if they can get faster production for a turn with out sacrificing growth. I will only do this for the very beginning, and then quickly get bored with it. In general though, just leave the city on production focus all the time, and manually assign the citizens. How often you go into the city to change their assignment is up to you, doing it every turn is optimal. I do it when I think of it, or every time I finish producing something. The only exception is when I OCC, then I check everything (including diplomacy), every turn.