Help, I need to start a war!

[Kessey]

I'm playing as the Mongels, and I'm in a Strategic Alliance with the Americans (ps game). We're basically the only ones left, and I want to end the alliance and start a war, but I don't want to hurt my reputation. They're a Democracy so I can't subvert their cities. Is there a way to coax them out of the treaty and get them to start the war? I'm trying to end my first game with a spotless reputation.

Thanks,

Take care,

Jay

 

[Bestbank Tiger]

You should be able to cancel an alliance without hurting your rep.

If you don't have the UN, switch to Fundy or Commie as your government and provoke the AI by repeatedly demanding tribute.

 

[The Judge]

I agree with Bestbank Tiger, change to Fundimentalist /Communist and keep requesting gifts from your ally. Also while in this government use your spies to take cities/steal tech/industrial sabotage. That should do it

 

[Kessey]

I can't steal technology, since I'm way ahead of everyone else, but I forgot about sabotage so I'll probably try that. Is it possible to jump right from an alliance into a war? I'd like to have my units swarming all over their land, then suddenly have them all strike in a single turn before they know what hit them.

Thanks,

Take care,

Jay

 

[Duke of Marlbrough]

When an alliance is cancelled any units you have in his territory will be sent to your closest city in the area.

 

[Ali Ardavan]

Is it possible to jump right from an alliance into a war? I'd like to have my units swarming all over their land, then suddenly have them all strike in a single turn before they know what hit them.

No, it is not possible. And that is by design as otherwise the potential for abuse on both sides would have been too high.

 

[ElephantU]

Be careful of what you do to provoke them as some things will affect your Reputation. As Duke mentioned when you are the one to cancel the alliance your units "teleport" to your nearest city, so you can't go right from swarming his territory to attacking. Be as obnoxious as you can diplomatically, clog up his Rd/RR network with your units, request gifts of gold, that kind of thing should tick them off.

 

[Kessey]

Thanks, Elephant,

I'll try to be as annoying as I can diplomatically. If I can get them out of Democracy, it'll be a whole lot easier.

Thanks to everyone else as well.

Take care,

Jay

 

[Duke of Marlbrough]

It may help them attack easier if the units you are harassing them with have low defense factors. Something that, if it annoys them enough, they can kill easily. Explorers might be good units for that. They tend to just exple diplomats and ignore freight. Actually, the most annoying thing to them may be a stack of two diplomats. They can't expel them and they don't seem to like having them around their cities.

 

[Mercator]

No, it is not possible. And that is by design as otherwise the potential for abuse on both sides would have been too high.

It is possible. Before you cancel the alliance, use an army of engineers to build up a railroad network between their cities, if they don't have that already, and railroad connections from wherever your army will be to that network.

A civilization's territory is defined by its city radiuses. Try and find "blind spots" between their cities, squares between their cities but just outside the city radiuses. Put fortresses there and a small part of your army. Also surround their territory with such fortresses.

Ships in their territory aren't returned to your territory either, I believe. I'm not sure about loaded transports. Though unloading ships would cost a precious movement point anyway.

Edit: Don't listen to this fool! He's completely wrong!

 

[ElephantU]

I've had loaded transports "teleported" back when an alliance is canceled. Very annoying when you have a ship chain through their area to another civ. I think the game uses the "last visited" marker to define the area of a civ's territory.

 

[Ace]

I have had that unfortunate experience, too. Like that word, "teleported", so accurate. Last "visited" might be the trigger, because I have had units which were not in a city radius "teleported" to my nearest city from the former alliance territory.

 

[TimTheEnchanter]

I thought an alliance cancellation moved anything that was closer to an Ex-ally's city than to one of your own cities.

 

[ElephantU]

That would be an even broader area of disruption than I thought, but might explain how ships get teleported if there is no "last visited" marker set for ocean areas (which I think someone at Apolyton researched once).

 

[TimTheEnchanter]

That would be an even broader area of disruption than I thought, but might explain how ships get teleported if there is no "last visited" marker set for ocean areas (which I think someone at Apolyton researched once).

Maybe I'm not understanding the "last visited" flag properly but wouldn't that mean your units would always be in "your own" territory because your units would obviously the last one to visit their current location since they are still standing there?

 

[Mercator]

I thought an alliance cancellation moved anything that was closer to an Ex-ally's city than to one of your own cities.

You're right. And ships are moved too... I guess it realy has been way too long since I last played Civ2.

 

[geofelt]

You must first get rid of the alliance. To cancel it without damaging your reputation, you must goad them into cancelling it for you.
1) On every turn, ask them for a gift.
2) Since you have free movement within their territory, build a city in their midst which overlaps as much as their boundaries as possible.
Eventually, they will cancel the alliance and attack the city, thus preserving your spotless reputation.

 

[Kessey]

Thanks for all the tips, everyone.

Bye Bye Evil Americans! That was a quick war. After goading them into the war, I struck quickly with destroyers and helicopters until they switched to monarchy, then my spies continued with the dirty work. A handful of copters took over Boston pretty easily (they must have moved their capital during their war with the English), and now I can sit back and enjoy my first victory without a single black mark...okay one black mark, I attacked a peaceful city by accident, thinking we only had a cease fire.

Thanks again all,

Take care,

Jay

 

[Nick Garai]

You should be able to cancel an alliance without hurting your rep.

If you don't have the UN, switch to Fundy or Commie as your government and provoke the AI by repeatedly demanding tribute.

Yep. That works. Change to any non-republic or non-democratic government. You can attack them that way. Once you have made them into an enemy go back to your previous government. If you are really large though, they might just keep on offering you peace and you'll have to keep on doing the government change. Permanently change to Communism and keep playing there.

Communism is the best for war and if there are only two of you left, you probably have all the sciences anyhow so you don't have to worry about researching anymore.

 

[Cheezy the Wiz]

Actually, the most annoying thing to them may be a stack of two diplomats. They can't expel them and they don't seem to like having them around their cities.

DoM, you are truly diabolical in your Civ II ways.

Another thing that'll get them riles up is not playing their hand for them. If they ask you for anything at all (and they're sure to sooner or later) don't give it to them, be it techs, gold, or war against a third party.