Help me for a NAVAL/AIR/GUERRILA warfare MOD

[Guntha Hamma]

Here's my proposal for a new mod. I'm used to play realism mod and I find it a very well-done mod. I'd really like to improve some military aspects of the game, starting from that mod.
I'm not an experienced modder, I took a look to the xml files about civ4 unit so I got an idea about how they work. But still I don't know a lot of things about civ mechanics so I'm asking you (modders, unit makers, people who likes/dislikes my proposals- any kind of help and feedback will be appreciated) to help me!

The main targets of this mod should be:

1- Adding units to the contemporary era air/naval warfare to give it more strategical and tactical options.
2- Letting poorer and smaller civs the chance to win wars against more powerful enemies by creating some special units. Also, my ideas are all about contemporary era.


NAVAL WARFARE

I got two main ideas to improve naval wafare:
1- improving the ASW and the ASuW aspects of the game
2- creating some cheaper but (sometimes) useful units (this is connected to the target n.2 of the mod)

1. Submarine warfare is a very important aspect of modern naval warfare. Even if in realism mod there are two kind of sub units now (normal sub and nuclear sub) I think that submarine in civ4 is not versatile and powerful as it should been. I'd like to see 5 differents sub units in the game:
A. Early submarine (aka U-boat or II World war). This unit still exists. It's the first generation (at least in Civ4) submarine. Diesel/electric engines, slow, and armed with no-guided torpedoes.
B. Hunter/Killer submarine. This should generally be the post II world war diesel/electric submarine. it should be really better than the early one, and have a good chance even against nuclear submarines. A good options for poorer countries even in the nuclear era (think about a Kilo clas sub), armed with guided torpedoes but without missiles.
C. SSN- Nuclear submarine. "3rd generation sub". Faster than H/K submarine, armed with guided torpedoes and cruise missiles, giving it the chance to attack naval units from distance and to bomb ground units.
D. SSBN- Ballistic missile nuclear submarine. It belongs to the 3rd gen class too. Slower and less powerful than the SSN, it is armed with nuclear warheads that can make a lot of collateral damage attacking an enemy fleet. Also, it can fires its ICBM over enemy territory.
E. Fourth generation submarine (something similar to the Seawolf class submarine). Maybe a faster and stronger SSN armed like a SSBN.



2. Making sub threat bigger means improving the chance to fight it, and, just as for H/K submarines, there should be some cheaper but effective units, good for countries that can't afford to build up huge naval fleets. Here are my ideas for some new naval units:
A. AEGIS destroyer (it's an available unit in the realism mod) should be specialized in AA warfare and armed with cruise and anti-ship missiles. So I will add a modern frigate unit, a smaller and less powerful unit but very effective against subs. Maybe we could give it the chance to carry an ASuW helicopter that can find enemy subs on a longer range.
B. Torpedo boat. A II world war era unit, it should be a very cheap and fast - high chance of withdrawing coastal attack boat. It should be a very dangerous unit but making it a coastal vessel should make it just a defensive unit.
C. Missile boat. A contemporary era boat, it should be just like the torpedo boat armed with anti-ship missiles.
D. Troop-transports ship. It should be a big but slow cargo ship. It should carry more units than the actual tranpost ship, but it should be slower and very weak.

So there's the need to create the cruise missile and the anti-ship missile. Don't know if it would be better to make a real unit that can be carried by other units or maybe it's possible to make units fire and engage enemies at a longer range than 1 square... let me know modders!

AIR WARFARE

Realism patch added the strike-fighter. It's very good, but not enough for my maniac mind. I would add:

A. Dive/torpedo bomber. In the II world war era there are only two kinds of aircraft, the fighter and the bomber. I would like to add something between these two units. Dive bomber should be useful against enemy naval units and enemy ground units, but still able (but not very able) to intercept enemy threats. the ju-87 stuka or the sturmovik could be the model.
B. Long range bomber. With the starting of the cold war era a very expensive long range bomber should appears. B-52 should be perfect.
C. Interceptor. The unit built to fight the long range bomber-menace. Mig-25 model. long range and very powerful against bombers but not very effective against modern fighters.
D. 2nd generation long range bomber. Like the B2.
E. Futuristic fighter. Multi-role aircraft: good interceptor, striker, fighter. SU-35 could work.
F. AWAC. Aircraft with a very long range radar and no weapons that can make recognitions.
G. ASuW plane (or helo?). It can detect (maybe attack?) enemy subs.
H. Transport helo. Just like the Chinhook. Very fast but it can't carries a lot of units.

Maybe we could improve the AA warfare by making other SAM units or AA artillery units.


IDEAS FOR SOME SPECIAL UNITS

I'm really interested into improving a very important stategical aspect of the game: as most wargames, even in civ4 it's too easy for biggest civ (with more production and money) to win wars against weakest civs. It's all about building up more and more powerful units. As we all know reality is not so easy. I think that weaker civs should get the chance to have their own strategy, for example using para-militar troops with guerrilla tactics, or terrorism, or other kinds of retaliations. I'd really like to know about your opinions. It's very important to know how much effective could be these strategies in the game, and if the AI would be able to use them smartly.
For example, I thought to create a terrorist unit. It could be very similar to the assassin and the inquisitor unit in realism mod, but of course it should be more effective. it could be a cheap unit that causes a lot of unhappiness in the enemies cities where it's used. Maybe the teocracy form of government should be needed to build it.
Another unit could be the partizans. it could be available only in cities with 100% national culture and only if there are enemy troops within your civ territory. they could be free (no support cost) and very fast to build. Is it possible to specify these kinds of conditions to build a unit?

So that's all, for now. If you like these ideas, please help me creating this mod!! I need everyone. Any suggestion will be a great help. any modder who will like to join will be blessed. cheers!

 

[MaxRiga]

i'm working already on my mod which one has some parts of your ideas

 

[Spartan117]

i just watched master and commnader with russel crowe...

it would be pretty cool to have like withdrawal % high among all navy ships, damaged ships move slower, by the way with better bombardment, and all early naval units to carry at least 1 military unit...

the military units can board the other ship and capture it by defeating the military unit stationed in the defending ship...
but inorder to do this the attacking ship must be directly adjacent to enemy ship...
havent really thought this through too much but maybe some else can
i play with realsim mod so this would is meant to apply to new earlier naval units in the mod... privateer and ship of the line

 

[Spartan117]

i love your ideas though but i am no programmer and only hope that your idea can be implemented in a mod which i hope you can allow other mods to use it.. like realism mod... realism mod creators are still trying to make it 1.61 compatible.. so it would be too much for them to try to come up with completely new ideas and program while trying to accomplish many otehr things at the same time like maki ng realism mod compatible with 1.61

i really hope someone helps you with your ideas of more variety of naval units, airforce units, and by the way i think someone did make cruise missles before, sort of act like icbm but alot weaker i think, but i am not really sure

 

[Spartan117]

any anybody looking at this thread...ummm i never played civ 3, any version, how do the paratrooper thing work?...

other people also suggested that airfoferce units can choose to attack other airforce units... because now airforce units can not actually be attacked by anything....

 

[Spartan117]

THE FOLLOWING IS quoted from MOFO:
"Other ideas/wish list:



I really like this idea "Holy Relic" icons that you could move around that give certain benefits to the holder of the relic as long as they were the right religion. Carrying the "Arc of the Covenant" into battle, or holding the "Tooth of the Buddha" in a city would give you some kind of bonus. If you captured one of these Relics but were not of the right religion, you would just be hiding them from those that are, and they would be pissed! "Return our Holy Relic to us or else!"


Refusing to do something negative to a third party when asked by another civ should give you positive points towards the civ that you are supporting - Instead of just receiving negative points towards the requesting civ when you refuse. Also, when you return a city to the original founding civ after throwing out another occupying civ you should get some positive points - "You have liberated our city from the evil invaders! How can we ever repay you?".

You should be able to automatically block certain requests from certain civs (a better diplomacy page in general would be nice) so that you aren’t bugged by those civs asking you go to war for them every other turn even though they won’t even allow you open borders or tech/resource trade… Maybe even have more options in reply that would either give positive or negative points depending on your response. “No way you losers” (-) to “Sorry we can’t” (0) to “Sure, no problem” (+).

Naval blockades and zones of control should be looked at... An invading force can sail right past a navy and land without contest..."

MY OWN OPINION "WOULD BE BETTER NAVAL MINES And introduction of Land MINES"

"AIR POWER!!! You should be able to attack/defend an enemies Air Force with your Air Force. You should be able to battle for air supremacy before having to send in bombers - or at least enable fighters to escort bombers during their runs.

There also should be smaller jet/prop bombers that can be loaded onto carriers. An aircraft carrier is the most powerful OFFENSIVE conventional weapons platform in existence today (due to the air units it carries), but is currently useless except as a DEFENSIVE support unit used to protect your navy from enemy bombers… A carrier should be able to hold one marine unit or commando unit as well?

There should be automatic recon missions over your zone of control by fighters to spot enemies coming in - having to do this manually every turn is tedious.

Airbases that you can build in non-claimed territory would be nice - And your air units should be safe from attack while in a friendly city… One enemy spearman can destroy 100 air units just by entering the neutral city

Gunships should be able to move over coastal water and need more movement points over their own land - As it stands right now, cavalry units are faster than 300km per hour choppers…

Being able to remove roads on your own land would be nice - also, workers should be able to “dismantle” improvements (pillage function).



Mountain crossing roads should be able to be build at some point… right now on the standard Earth map you cannot travel to South America from Central America by road…

Going to war should affect the attitude of all other civs with the same religions as those involved in the war, regardless of other considerations. Religious Wars/alliances would add another interesting factor when choosing what Religion to follow. Also, the benefits of having a Holy City should be increased, and there should be an increase in the other civs desire for a Holy City - Holy Wars!!!


You should be able to gather a resource outside your territory as long as it is not in someone else’s territory and you have a route by road/sea/air. First to claim resource gets to use it until you lose it by war or territory growth.

You should be able to hold a spot with a military unit (like building a fort) to stop a civ from building a city there until the area is in someone’s territory - or you lose the space through war. Same with another civ’s unit moving through your military unit (like a zone of control) “Do you allow them safe passage through?” Negative attitude points if you don’t allow them passage.

Upgrades have to cost less, or units could upgrade naturally if stationed in a city for a certain amount of time - during which they cannot move or fight.

Certain military units (like legionaries/marines) should be able to build roads/remove jungle.(the ancient mediterranean mod had legions do this)

Certain units (like chariots/tanks) should need a road before they can enter a jungle area."

is there a way to make naval mines in the realism mod... cause colateral damage while defending?

dont know if this is possible but would be very interesting maybe they can plant mines or somethin, use the naval mines sort of have them invisible but have them obviously weaker then naval mines but cause cause Collateral damage to stack if stepped into tile. there can be a limit to how many a unit can plant. these mines either units themselves or i guess could be improvements made over unimproved land... then there can be an addition a mine detector unit or give a unit already made the ability to see mines and somehow destroy them without actually recieving damage.. or some percentage of success and if it fails it activates mine. mines can only be used in land under cultural borders or something.. dont know what this will do balance if mines too powerful


this is probably too much to ask for but I wish a modder can do something with these ideas...

sorry about many posts...
i am not trying to spam though

 

[Guntha Hamma]

Thank you Spartan. I like your suggestions; I think that air units should be able to attack other air units; any modern war would start with a war for the air supremacy, so the first units to be involved in a war should ever be the air units. However, the target of this hypothetical (by now) mod would be to improve some strategical aspect of the game without changing the mechanics of the game. This because I'm not a programmer and I don't know how we could modify the program code. If anyone will be able to change anything in the mechanics of the game, and that change will be useful for this mod, of course we'll adopt it.
My wish is to find people who has time and willing to make this mod. Need unit graphic makers, xml modders etc. etc. Of course any kind of suggestion is welcome and we'll try to implement any good idea!!