Help on Huge Maps
- Thread starter KiNGd0M
- Start date
By huge do you mean the size that is 160x160 when you select huge or do you mean a larger map from the editor? In any case, it is a lot of work and time. The level and settings will impact the civ that I would choose.
If it is an island map, could do well with the Byz at any level. Continents or Pangea at levels like Regent/Monarch you could use Expansion trait to pop huts. Higher level that is less attractive.
I prefer Industrious, Commercial traits at Emperor or better to raise cash and get roads up faster.
Then you have to look at the UU and when you think you may like to trigger a GA. You can expect to get lots of promotions and leaders, Mil is not as valued for me. Science as a second trait is not bad, but Ind and Comm combined is strong.
If it is an island map, could do well with the Byz at any level. Continents or Pangea at levels like Regent/Monarch you could use Expansion trait to pop huts. Higher level that is less attractive.
I prefer Industrious, Commercial traits at Emperor or better to raise cash and get roads up faster.
Then you have to look at the UU and when you think you may like to trigger a GA. You can expect to get lots of promotions and leaders, Mil is not as valued for me. Science as a second trait is not bad, but Ind and Comm combined is strong.
Donny Brook
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If the VC you're pursuing is conquest or dom as you said, then 1000AD is an achievable goal which is around 200 turns. I recall Lord Emsworth mentioned he had reached the DL in some astounding number of turns with China. IIRC, it was like the 500-600's which is only ~170 turns.
With either of those VC's, choose a civ with a good early UU. Remember that at lower levels, the tech pace is so slow that an "early" UU probably needs to come from an ancient age tech (like Iroquois' mounted warrior). At higher levels, the tech pace is so fast that middle age techs are feasible (like China's rider, Arab's ansar warrior). Notice that speed+fire power are common attributes of a good warring UU.
With either of those VC's, choose a civ with a good early UU. Remember that at lower levels, the tech pace is so slow that an "early" UU probably needs to come from an ancient age tech (like Iroquois' mounted warrior). At higher levels, the tech pace is so fast that middle age techs are feasible (like China's rider, Arab's ansar warrior). Notice that speed+fire power are common attributes of a good warring UU.
Rustwork
Warlord
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At emperor or lower i would say without a doubt it is the iroquois. I have some HoF games to demonstrate this (all played earlier in my civ career, and i made many mistakes).
Iroquois advantage:
1] UU is Mounted Warrior !! - 3 attack, 2 move, for only 30 shields (only better conquest UU in Ancient Era is gallic swordsman, but the extra defense is mostly useless, and they cost an additional 40 shields.)
2] They begin with Alphabet, allowing the fastest most direct line to a better gov't.
3] The Agricultural trait is a must.
a general blueprint:
research: Writing -> CoL -> Philo -> Republic -> try trading for WC, and The Wheel -> then Horseback Riding -> trade for CB -> research Mysticism -> Polytheism. If you have chosen your opponents correctly you can stop research at this point (unless you feel the need for an SGL). Now you will have alot of gold for rushing mounted warriors and settlers.
place cities as far apart as possible, account for the space filled in after culture growth. you MUST build the ToA, below monarch and the AI probably won't be able to build it for you fast enough. the pyramid is a big help as well. Develop some core cities for settler factories, and some for rushing mounted warriors. Start a road in a few directions to get your units across the map fast enough, 6 workers can build one section of road every turn.
avoid auto-razing cities. attack after culture growth or population growth. be careful with the population as the AI will draft a unit (dropping pop), or they will build a settler. a size 1 city with no culture growth (must have at least 10 culture) will be razed even if it had more citizens before you started the war. Basically let your rivals do some of the work for you by letting them establish more cities. your horses can get there faster than settlers.
I had a few #1 spots using the Iroquois, until recently. I am currently working on a promising game that should reclaim my huge chieftan spot. (for good
)
a few other tricks i leave you the joy of discovering. look at winning games for some additional hints. BC victories already exist for Monarch and lower. A BC victory on emperor is well within reason, and i think ideally it might even be possible for a BC victory on Demi-god.
Iroquois advantage:
1] UU is Mounted Warrior !! - 3 attack, 2 move, for only 30 shields (only better conquest UU in Ancient Era is gallic swordsman, but the extra defense is mostly useless, and they cost an additional 40 shields.)
2] They begin with Alphabet, allowing the fastest most direct line to a better gov't.
3] The Agricultural trait is a must.
a general blueprint:
research: Writing -> CoL -> Philo -> Republic -> try trading for WC, and The Wheel -> then Horseback Riding -> trade for CB -> research Mysticism -> Polytheism. If you have chosen your opponents correctly you can stop research at this point (unless you feel the need for an SGL). Now you will have alot of gold for rushing mounted warriors and settlers.
place cities as far apart as possible, account for the space filled in after culture growth. you MUST build the ToA, below monarch and the AI probably won't be able to build it for you fast enough. the pyramid is a big help as well. Develop some core cities for settler factories, and some for rushing mounted warriors. Start a road in a few directions to get your units across the map fast enough, 6 workers can build one section of road every turn.
avoid auto-razing cities. attack after culture growth or population growth. be careful with the population as the AI will draft a unit (dropping pop), or they will build a settler. a size 1 city with no culture growth (must have at least 10 culture) will be razed even if it had more citizens before you started the war. Basically let your rivals do some of the work for you by letting them establish more cities. your horses can get there faster than settlers.
I had a few #1 spots using the Iroquois, until recently. I am currently working on a promising game that should reclaim my huge chieftan spot. (for good
)a few other tricks i leave you the joy of discovering. look at winning games for some additional hints. BC victories already exist for Monarch and lower. A BC victory on emperor is well within reason, and i think ideally it might even be possible for a BC victory on Demi-god.
I would say that America and even better Russia for a huge pan at Chief. You really can get a huge pay back for putting out 3-5 scouts. Pop your way to greatness. America has Ind to get those roads up faster and irrigation in the early rex phase. Russia counters with Science and the Cossack.
No real need for the MW at this level, all you will do is get a premature GA. You can keep them in check with normal troops, in fact they do not even attack me in games at this level. The biggest fear is to not make a GA from wonders. That is what make France good for that game as they can make a lot of god wonders and not trigger a GA.
No real need for the MW at this level, all you will do is get a premature GA. You can keep them in check with normal troops, in fact they do not even attack me in games at this level. The biggest fear is to not make a GA from wonders. That is what make France good for that game as they can make a lot of god wonders and not trigger a GA.
Rustwork
Warlord
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ideal map for fast domination with an agricultural civ would be hot and dry. this gives more deserts, less tundra. agri civs can improve deserts to have 2 food. essentially becoming irrigated plains. this isn't as important on the low levels because reaching the population limit is not a problem. workers should improve 6-10 cities at the core then make a highway to the far end of the map asap!
also want 80% water.
5 billion years old.
here's the trick with goodie huts at chieftan. scout with your first worker and try popping a settler from nearby huts, i usually stay within about 6 moves, and stop popping huts once i have a settler built, you won't pop a settler if you have one walking around, by then you've probably found all the nearby huts anyway. never pop any others because you don't need the tech advantage. you actually want to self research for SGLs.
build ToA; i like the pyramids too, but it might be better to build units on chieftan. as you move up in level the pyramids will become more important, but then again at some level it becomes quicker to capture the wonders rather than build them. don't build any other wonders. the shields are better used for settlers and military.
i feel an agricultural civ is a must. i like maya, celts, iroquois. maya does benefit early on from industrious trait, and they can build the long road with two fewer workers. chieftan can easily be handled with horsemen, but its just faster with mounted warriors; both are 30 shields (they are also cheaper than the celts UU, defense is irrelevant here). i like iroquois even more when i consider the quick path to republic.
i was going to play the iroquois and mayans from the same start to find out how the industrious trait compares with the early gov't, but then i realized that was work, and this is a game.
also want 80% water.
5 billion years old.
here's the trick with goodie huts at chieftan. scout with your first worker and try popping a settler from nearby huts, i usually stay within about 6 moves, and stop popping huts once i have a settler built, you won't pop a settler if you have one walking around, by then you've probably found all the nearby huts anyway. never pop any others because you don't need the tech advantage. you actually want to self research for SGLs.
build ToA; i like the pyramids too, but it might be better to build units on chieftan. as you move up in level the pyramids will become more important, but then again at some level it becomes quicker to capture the wonders rather than build them. don't build any other wonders. the shields are better used for settlers and military.
i feel an agricultural civ is a must. i like maya, celts, iroquois. maya does benefit early on from industrious trait, and they can build the long road with two fewer workers. chieftan can easily be handled with horsemen, but its just faster with mounted warriors; both are 30 shields (they are also cheaper than the celts UU, defense is irrelevant here). i like iroquois even more when i consider the quick path to republic.
i was going to play the iroquois and mayans from the same start to find out how the industrious trait compares with the early gov't, but then i realized that was work, and this is a game.
If you fail to get an SGL in the first two ages, where did all that self research get you? That is why the HoF guys abandon attempts, if no very early SGL. If this was a HoF effort, that would be different.
Expansion civs will get out of the AA very fast by popping huts. You can build any wonder you want at Chief by hand.
Expansion civs will get out of the AA very fast by popping huts. You can build any wonder you want at Chief by hand.
Rustwork
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if i am playing for the HoF i will abandon many games for various reasons, that's true. i have also finished some without an SGL.
if i was going for a research victory (SS, or UN) then i agree with the huts. expansionist is great for that purpose. i have read where the AA went very fast by popping almost all the techs. i don't play many of those games at low levels because of that reason. to compete, nearly all the early research depends on popping techs. so, with luck, it becomes the primary strategy. and HoFers will abandon many games if the huts don't go their way. at chieftan luck will be in your favor, and russia is a superb choice for either of the two victories.
if i play a domination game at emperor or below it is always the iroquois, and i win before it becomes necessary to research the full AA. i stop research when i am Repbulic; can build ToA, Pyramids, and Mounted Warriors, the only reason for more is if i want an SGL. then i buy my units. trading the advantages of the iroquois for an expansionist trait, especially if no agricultural civ is chosen, to me will not lead to a faster victory.
Those are all the tools you need to win the game. HoF or not. give me a bad start (within reason, not surrounded by half a map of mountains) and i'll hike my settler to a better spot and still never need more than mounted warriors to win. my win date might not be impressive for the HoF, so i would not likely play it out, but i easily could.
Above emperor and you will probably encounter rivals with pikes and muskets. the pikes aren't even bad (some are around at the end of a big map on emperor, if i remember), since the mounted warrior is a fairly even fight. all the money i saved in research has become a huge army of mounted warriors that easily beats any rival before they have gunpowder. I will apply these ideas to my next demi-god game and see if i am as successful. my hunch is that i'd want knights, or similar UU, at least, so i'd keep researching, or buy the techs. DG or higher and the huts aren't as lucrative. i know expansion civs won't pop barbs, but i thougt as the level went up they also pop less techs, more gold and maps.
I like the earlier GA too, because i have already switched gov't and my power accelerates to an unbeatable position.
I have tried the mayans for a chieftan game because it is possible to win with very little military confrontation. i settle as close to their cities as possible and let my culture claim most of their territory. the industrious trait is also very helpful. I have gone back to the iroquois though because i prefer to use my rival's cities, and i position new settlers anticipating captures and culture growth. the mounted warriors are helpful because they survive more often and can continue, whereas horses need more reinforcements which at the end of a large game take many turns to reach the fighting.
I firmly believe the best civ for domination on a huge pangea is the iroquois. i have tried numerous strategies, and for fastest finish they can't be beat. on different maps, or above emperor and some of the reasoning is much more debatable.
if i was going for a research victory (SS, or UN) then i agree with the huts. expansionist is great for that purpose. i have read where the AA went very fast by popping almost all the techs. i don't play many of those games at low levels because of that reason. to compete, nearly all the early research depends on popping techs. so, with luck, it becomes the primary strategy. and HoFers will abandon many games if the huts don't go their way. at chieftan luck will be in your favor, and russia is a superb choice for either of the two victories.
if i play a domination game at emperor or below it is always the iroquois, and i win before it becomes necessary to research the full AA. i stop research when i am Repbulic; can build ToA, Pyramids, and Mounted Warriors, the only reason for more is if i want an SGL. then i buy my units. trading the advantages of the iroquois for an expansionist trait, especially if no agricultural civ is chosen, to me will not lead to a faster victory.
Those are all the tools you need to win the game. HoF or not. give me a bad start (within reason, not surrounded by half a map of mountains) and i'll hike my settler to a better spot and still never need more than mounted warriors to win. my win date might not be impressive for the HoF, so i would not likely play it out, but i easily could.
Above emperor and you will probably encounter rivals with pikes and muskets. the pikes aren't even bad (some are around at the end of a big map on emperor, if i remember), since the mounted warrior is a fairly even fight. all the money i saved in research has become a huge army of mounted warriors that easily beats any rival before they have gunpowder. I will apply these ideas to my next demi-god game and see if i am as successful. my hunch is that i'd want knights, or similar UU, at least, so i'd keep researching, or buy the techs. DG or higher and the huts aren't as lucrative. i know expansion civs won't pop barbs, but i thougt as the level went up they also pop less techs, more gold and maps.
I like the earlier GA too, because i have already switched gov't and my power accelerates to an unbeatable position.
I have tried the mayans for a chieftan game because it is possible to win with very little military confrontation. i settle as close to their cities as possible and let my culture claim most of their territory. the industrious trait is also very helpful. I have gone back to the iroquois though because i prefer to use my rival's cities, and i position new settlers anticipating captures and culture growth. the mounted warriors are helpful because they survive more often and can continue, whereas horses need more reinforcements which at the end of a large game take many turns to reach the fighting.
I firmly believe the best civ for domination on a huge pangea is the iroquois. i have tried numerous strategies, and for fastest finish they can't be beat. on different maps, or above emperor and some of the reasoning is much more debatable.
del62
Deity
If I was going for a fast finish, I would chose 80% pangea (especially on lower levels) i.e. regent and below
I am not in a position to judge higher levels.
I am not in a position to judge higher levels.