Heroic Epic usefulness in BTS

[ganto]

I think I'm going to stop making these in my military city if the city site has a decent amount of hammer potential.

I mean, when the city gets factoried & powered up, end game I should be able to pump mech inf/modern armor in 1 turn regardless of whether I have a HE or military academy (I've stopped building these too). Even mid game they tend to do well enough.

My primary military city still gets West Point, but what to pair with? Maybe red cross but I've never needed it (well, had the slot open for it). Medic I isnt really important when I have medic3 & woodsman 3 units running around. Or (situationally) a globe theater to guarantee production despite war wariness/happiness issues.

So the HE goes to a secondary production city. But if it has ironworks it hardly needs the +100% military boost. Which means I'll probably only use the HE for a random city needing a culture boost unless I'm stuck with less than ideal production cities. Or maybe a navy production if it's in a different city. HE+ Maui?

thoughts?

-been playing on noble/epic, planning on moving up

 

[Echo of Celts]

I usually always build the Heroic Epic and a Military Academy in my Primary Military Producer.

I usually pair it up with West Point, but that depends on the situation. Sometimes I settle alot of Great Generals there so West Point is not urgent.

Sure late game when you have a Forge, Factory and Power, your Military Producer is churning out Units, but in the Medieval and Early Industrial eras (especially cavalry age) I find it does help to have that 150% boost in Production.

Though I usually like having 2 Military Cities. Also, I don't use my Capital usually for either one, as I save a whole whack of forests around it (takes alot of will power lol) then build the national park for the specialist.

Anywho, my two cents.

 

[Refar]

Uh... i kind of not follow... Sure, late game there are lots of multipliers, not to mention the Corporations. And the cities have huge pop to work all that land...

But what do you do before you get there ? I mean where all those Swordsmen and Catapults and Macemen you need to forge a empire are coming from ???

 

[BalbanesBeoulve]

I find heroic epic to be the single most powerful wonder, national or world, in the game for my style of playing. If i had the option of starting with a free heroic epic or pyramids, i'd pick the heroic epic, no doubt about it.

 

[niels251]

The HE is very useful especially if you play on marathon.

 

[Diamondeye]

I consider HE mostly an early-game bonus, and I blame myself everytime I reach lategame without having built it. It pays off -wise very soon when built in a military production city, especially with marble.

 

[DigitalBoy]

Heroic Epic allows your production city to make units in one or two turns before you have factories. In fact, it's usually cranking out so many hammers with the +100% bonus that building a factory and power plant there becomes unneccessary, which saves you hundreds of base hammers that would have otherwise been spent on factories, power plants, and health buildings. It's the single best military national wonder. Beats out West Point by a mile, since it takes so damn long to build and get access to.

 

[Cutlass]

Considering how easy and early it can usually be built, there's no reason to not build it. Build it a number 3 or 4 city if you don't want it in number 1 or 2.

 

[Eikka]

I usually build that in my second military city ( the IW goes for the MAIN military city)

1st military city: IW + WP = fast coming units with good promotions.
2nd military city: HE + RC = fast coming units with medic 1.

And i usually try to get military academy in both citys, but sometimes it's better settle them in to get the 2xp points IMO.

 

[Supr49er]

I usually build that in my second military city ( the IW goes for the MAIN military city)

1st military city: IW + WP = fast coming units with good promotions.
2nd military city: HE + RC = fast coming units with medic 1.

And i usually try to get military academy in both citys, but sometimes it's better settle them in to get the 2xp points IMO.

I put my 2nd Military city on the coast for a Medic promoted navy.

 

[DragonHawk]

HE is good for early ages military build. Even if you do not plan to go to war, creating a unit every 2/3 turns is good for keeping up with the power graph. You should not go below the average power so AI is least likely to attack you.

In modern ages, when you have considerable production, the bonus is less noticeable. But to get to this point, you would need the early ages military units, wouldn't you

 

[pxpdoo]

I put my 2nd Military city on the coast for a Medic promoted navy.

Ditto, and ditto.

 

[Cutlass]

I don't wait for the Iron Works for a military city because it comes too late. Better to get the military city up and running sooner and use IW to upgrade a medium production city. for the most part I develop my military city enough so that it's 1 unit per turn with HE alone and so putting IW there is a waste compared to West Point.

 

[qwertz]

...so you don't build military before the modern era?

 

[praktik]

Though I usually like having 2 Military Cities. Also, I don't use my Capital usually for either one, as I save a whole whack of forests around it (takes alot of will power lol) then build the national park for the specialist.

Anywho, my two cents.

Really?? Wow. Maybe the guides here have led me astray, but I find myself usually having only 2 to 3 forest tiles left after burning the rest in the initial worker/settler rush and for early wonders when my production ain't up yet (not to mention those I cut down to make room for mines/cottages/farms).

For National Park, I like to find a spot in the middle of a forest with one food resource and *maybe* a few river tiles - and just leave it there pretty small until I unlock national park. Once that tech comes in I have a minimum of 12 specialists and a powerhouse city where there was a weak one before...

So what are you forgoing to keep the forests in your capital - and how many free specialists do you get from doing this on average?

 

[praktik]

I don't wait for the Iron Works for a military city because it comes too late. Better to get the military city up and running sooner and use IW to upgrade a medium production city. for the most part I develop my military city enough so that it's 1 unit per turn with HE alone and so putting IW there is a waste compared to West Point.

I don't think I play my games long enough (I usually get the urge to start over with a new technique once infantry hits) but are you getting 1 unit per turn any time before railroad - or you running state property?

In the early/middle ages with mines and settled specialists I can usually only get things down to 3-4 turns (with the first unit of a type taking 2 turns due to production overflow from previous build) - so my main question, when do you get this 1/unit turn thing?

 

[Way_Traveler]

Pair it with globe theatre in a food heavy city early, and whip your hands bloody. This tactic works extremely well, since literature and drama are along the same tech. line. The number of units you can generate is absurd. Later, if you're forced into emancipation, another hammer heavy city can have Ironworks/West Point and become your city. At that point, you can build workshops and watermills and such over the farms, and keep it going at a decent clip (not nearly as good as before, sadly). There is usually a 'sweet spot' when your ironworks/west point city and the heroic epic/globe theatre building can both pump out units. If you prep properly, and make one of those cities coastal, you can take over the world and all but end the game at this point.

 

[ganto]

Heroic Epic allows your production city to make units in one or two turns before you have factories. In fact, it's usually cranking out so many hammers with the +100% bonus that building a factory and power plant there becomes unneccessary, which saves you hundreds of base hammers that would have otherwise been spent on factories, power plants, and health buildings. It's the single best military national wonder. Beats out West Point by a mile, since it takes so damn long to build and get access to.

Haha this is the way I should be approaching it. Skip the unnecessary factory + power instead of skipping the HE

I do value the HE midgame so I just wanted to brainstorm a bit on its other uses. It just seems 'defacto' to put it in your main military city. Maybe I feel I can get away without it in at my difficulty level. I save a spot for westpoint even though it takes a while to get/build.

I like the HE+Globe+whipping but it feels situational having enough cities (&theaters) at that point of the game where whipping is still effective.

 

[Cutlass]

I don't think I play my games long enough (I usually get the urge to start over with a new technique once infantry hits) but are you getting 1 unit per turn any time before railroad - or you running state property?

In the early/middle ages with mines and settled specialists I can usually only get things down to 3-4 turns (with the first unit of a type taking 2 turns due to production overflow from previous build) - so my main question, when do you get this 1/unit turn thing?

My last game Sparta had I think 10 squares of floodplain, a rock quarry, an iron mine, and only 2 forest squares. I had cottages everywhere. The population was large and by time I could make riflemen I could produce a rifle, a cavalry, a canon, or a grenadier in 1 turn. That's with HE, and WP, but before i could build factories or IW. I had a forge and a levy.

 

[Solomwi]

I usually build that in my second military city ( the IW goes for the MAIN military city)

1st military city: IW + WP = fast coming units with good promotions.
2nd military city: HE + RC = fast coming units with medic 1.

And i usually try to get military academy in both citys, but sometimes it's better settle them in to get the 2xp points IMO.

I think you'd be better served to reverse those pairings. IW and HE have the same effect when building units (assuming iron and coal), but IW also has that effect when building anything else, so I want HE in the city more dedicated to military production and IW in the city that I can spare for wonders or other non-military uses, if need be. With that in mind, let's turn to WP and RC. You only need a handful of medic units in any game, since the bonus doesn't stack. This means if you continuously pump out medic units, many of those promotions will be effectively useless. On the other hand, every unit with 4 extra XP is useful. For that reason, I want WP in my city that's devoted to churning out nothing but units, and RC in the city that can build a few units, then switch over to something else. That second city is still building enough units to ensure that I have medics everywhere I may need them, but WP isn't going to waste if I divert its production away from units. Of course, that's ignoring other possibilities, like my favorite RC pairing: Globe Theater in a high food city (draft those medic units, don't build them).