High difficulty war tactics

Godlike

Chieftain
Joined
Apr 14, 2003
Messages
2
How to beat high-level AI in modern war

Hey guys.

I have been playing civ for about five months, and have gotten resonably good at it. Right now I am in a game year 1878 with Deity difficulty on giant map, and I thought I would share some of the wisdom I have gained through this war that I am engaged in now.

I am one of three nations on a huge continent, and at the start of this war I was the weakest one. I had actually been planning for this war for a long time so, while my opponent ravaged the entire continent of all other civs, I turned my cities into modern armor factories that could pour them out every one or two turns. What this meant was that when my cities had factories, manufacturig plants, offshore platforms, and hydro dams, the Zulu had Factories (sometimes). The moral of this is that although the Zulu had at least three times as many cities as me, I actually had 5 or so more that actually made a difference in the war effort. What I mean by this is: Once you get to this point in the game, it doesn't help you if you have a city without a factory that loses all its shields to corruption and can make a modern armor in fifty turns. The only cities that even make a difference in the war are the group of ten or so metropolises around yor capitol with minimal corrpution and 60 shields or above. This means that you can beat a much larger civilization in a war, if you can withstand his original attack. All you need to do is fight a war of attrition and take advantage or your superior shield production.

Now this may come as a surprise to all you experienced players, but I found that artillery was not necessary at all. This is not to say that it was not useful, just that when it came to the actual taking of enemy cities, the artillery just wasn't necessary. So, my advice is this: Use artillery for defense of your cities and damaging enemy units in your territory. This works better because you can move the artillery anywhere in your territory (via railroads) and still hit the enemy. If you are trying to take an enemy city, moving your artillery into range will take a turn, thus wasting time and making it more likely that you will not have taken full advantage of the war before your people get pissed off at you for it.

At the start of the war, I had saved up about 120 Modern Armor, and every turn I pumped out eight or so more. I would take three or so cities a turn, simply by attacking recklessly and losing about ten modern armor for each one. What I found is that, once you get your nations cities getting 90 or so shields, you can afford to lose twice as many men as the AI and still come out the winner. This is because of the nature of AI and how it plays. I don't know much about the lower difficulties, because I don't play on them too much, but from my experience, when a Deity-level AI declares war on you (or vice versa) you can be sure of three weaknesses that you can take advantage of:

1. He will always use his bombers to attack rescource squares near to his territory, so set up interceptors with air superiority around the cities that he will be targeting. Even if he loses three bombers or more to your jets, he will continue to attack until the job is done. This is a wasteful use of rescources because it will take him at least 15 turns to get all the bombers back, and your workers can rebuild the road in one or two.

2. He will send modern armor armies with mech inf support by themselves, which makes them easyt targets for you to destroy. Use Radar artillery to take the armies down to one hit point, then finish it off with a modern armor. Also, it is exteremly important after this that you do not let the mech inf escape back to a city. They get an obscene defensive bonus for just being in a city, so take them out with your artillery and modern armor before they escape.

3. He will stack the majority of his army on one territory, and move into your territory to take your fringe cities. This may scare you at first but this actually puts them in a very vunerable position. Because their guys are all stacked, they will slow down (modern armor to wait for mech infantry) they will move very slowly in your territory, taking at least two turns before they are in a position to attack your city. You must take full advantage of these two turns to bombard them with everything you have. Take a group of about twenty mech infantry and radar atrillery into firing range, and blast them. If they attack your artillery and mech infantry, they will get destroyed. If they ignore them and go on to your city, my the time they get there, all of the units will have at least one hit point gone, and will be easy for your mech infantry (which you moved into the city because they were not needed anywhere else) to finish them off. Or, if worst comes to worst, they have a bloody battle, take the city, and lose the war because that was their whole army.

Keep in mind, these strategies only work when all players are fully teched, near the end of the game. I Would like any input that you have for my plan, please post me back.
JR
 
Well, what exactly is your plan? Build as many Modern Armor as you can and attack recklessly without artillery support? Tell me how that is new, or even good at all? Why should you lose twice as many men as the AI when with artillery support you can lose half as many? Artillery can attack two squares away, so you can often attack with a stack from the border of your territory and then move in with the Modern Armor, or place your forces and then attack the next turn. If you want to see Industrial/Modern warfare at its finest, look at LK38 in the Succession Games forum. The war stuff starts around here.
 
I disagree completly. Artillary and Bombers make the campaigne far easier. You simply have to have enough of them. Use them to Weaken defenders and destroy routes to Reasources, they can also help when enemy troops attack your offensive forces. This enables you to continue your campagne with greater ease. You may want to try it, less units will die.
 
I think that Speaker is being a bit harsh as the 3 points at the end are perfectly valid, but overall this strategy involves building loads and loads of the most modern units in the game, then attacking etc etc etc.

The real skill on deity is to survive to the modern ages without having already triggered a win of some kind. I have never won a deity game because I always get overrun by swordsman or knights in the middle ages. I can win most Emporer games relatively easily however I always find that the space race, UN or culture victories have been triggered by the middle of the modern age. I have never researched a future tech, built radar artillery or got anywhere near SDI!

I would be more interested in knowing how you survived the earlier ages.

Pal {UI}
 
Artillery are very good to bombard city until 6 citizen only survive (and def unit at 1 hp)...after this you don't lose a unit to take a city...
20 arti
1army to protect
3-4 attack unit

2def unit behind who move to the city for the rebellion (6 citizens town is not very hard to calm down ^^)

With this u can't take over all the civ town easily.... you've just to "tank" the first AI wave ;à)

don't need 60 shields per town and losing lot of units to win war in this game :p (you just have to admit the overpowered utility of offensive artillery :rolleyes: ;) )
 
Artillery are very good to bombard city until 6 citizen only survive (and def unit at 1 hp)...after this you don't lose a unit to take a city...
20 arti
1army to protect
3-4 attack unit

2def unit behind who move to the city for the rebellion (6 citizens town is not very hard to calm down ^^)

With this u can't take over all the civ town easily.... you've just to "tank" the first AI wave ;à)

don't need 60 shields per town and losing lot of units to win war in this game :p (you just have to admit the overpowered utility of offensive artillery :rolleyes: ;) )
 
Originally posted by Pal {UI}
I would be more interested in knowing how you survived the earlier ages.
Pal {UI}

I find the way you wage the modern war is not that important. With simple artillery and MI stacks, the AI will never defeat you once on rail.

Additionally I just send a small stack on MI to all the AI's rubber resources. Normally on MI army and on additional on to pillage the roads, results in fighting rifflemen!(NB Armies cannot pillage)

The early survival is really not that difficult. Simple offensive tactics at the start can result in sufficient area to build sufficient cities. I normally go for early swordmen attacks. I set my science to zero once I reach ironworking. The I connect one city to my iron with a barracks and temple. I build warriors in the rest for upgrade to swordsmen. This way I can outbuild the AI and can easily take 2-3 AI's out before they reach feudal age.

I sue for peace and tech before switching my attack to the next AI. After 20 turns, I continuo my attack.

During the industrial age, I use MPP's for attack. I will pay for these before attack. This way I keep on hitting my strongest opponents. (Often my enemy will also have MPP's with my allies. To ensure that these are not enforced, I attack the enemy in my territory. The AI will counter and once they attack units in my territory, the MPP's will come to force)

With MPP's most wars are won by my allies, weakning them for me to kill.

I have used this tactic to kill 6 opponents in a row. All once my own allies.:)
 
Godlike,

By the time you get a huge stack of MA, I'm sure the AIs are also very close to finishing their spaceship. Therefore, there is a chance that you won't be able to stop them in time. On the other hand, by using just artillery and cavalry offensively, you could rule the world at least 3 centuries earlier. Btw, artillery can attack immediately without the 1 turn delay as I have documented in this thread. Since it has worked so well against the super-ultra strong AI, many people label it as an 'exploit'.;)

Originally posted by thefrenchzulu
I find the way you wage the modern war is not that important. With simple artillery and MI stacks, the AI will never defeat you once on rail.
Exactly! Once we get rail and artillery (MI isn't necessary), no AI can possibly able to defeat us.:) The secret to winning a Deity game is how to survive until the Industrial Age and how to catch up to them in tech.
 
Originally posted by thefrenchzulu
The early survival is really not that difficult. Simple offensive tactics at the start can result in sufficient area to build sufficient cities. I normally go for early swordmen attacks. I set my science to zero once I reach ironworking. The I connect one city to my iron with a barracks and temple. I build warriors in the rest for upgrade to swordsmen. This way I can outbuild the AI and can easily take 2-3 AI's out before they reach feudal age. :)

The problem I always come up against is that by the time my swordsman stack is ready the AIs are building knights and pickmen! :cry:

More practice required I think.
 
Sometimes, you gotta gamble that stack of four swords :p. An early blow seems very effective.
 
I also find artillery to be useless, but I found using a lot of bombers to cut off cities, from resources and other cities helps, as well as bombing the actual city, all of this while I send a lot of tanks down there.
 
being so far in tech I can assume you may want to use stealth bombers? range 8 or 12 (civ3 or PtW), rof 3 with 8 bombard allows easy precision bombing the enemy down to tiny cities, thus not wasting so many MA.

One thing I like about this thread is that it is opposite of the modern warfare tactic I wrote in the first link in my signature.

Godlike, (can I call you Monster Kill :ripper:?) I actually agree with you that once you outproduce the AI you can afford to just build MA and destroy them without support. I've done it myself before--but that was on warlord ;)
 
ah but the sniper rifle isn't a good weapon for the monsterkilll (but does get you to godlike pretty easily). Neither is the ripper but I had to use something to give a greater hint at what I was talking about ;)
 
Originally posted by Pal {UI}


The problem I always come up against is that by the time my swordsman stack is ready the AIs are building knights and pickmen! :cry:

More practice required I think.

Not that much practice though.

When you attack early, you only need a few swordmen. I normally go with 20. (Twenty veteran warriors - 800gold) I keep on reinforcing them with 1 upgraded warrior per turn and then spearmen.

I think most important is not do take cities immediately, but rather move a small stacks straight at their iron/horses resources. I find a few horsemen here helpful to counter archers before moving back to the safety of the stack. JW also very useful here. Once you have taken control of their resources, the fight is a breeze!

I don't try to kill all the AI with Swordsmen, but if you can take two early, you should have enough resources and luxuries to easily trade yourself to par with the AI for later win. NB this is for deity.

Once you get to the middle ages, you can use the disconnected iron resource tactic for upgrading horsemen to knights. In the end no AI can withstand the volume of units.
 
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