Hollywood??? As a Great Wonder???

[MRM]

Looking at what Hollywood churns out, I'd say that it should DECREASE your culture, rather than increase it.

I would put it that way - it makes the people less unhappy ( who starts an reveloution when he watches TV all day long ... ) but dumb, because ... well just look whats running in TV ...

 

[megabrainz]

I would put it that way - it makes the people less unhappy ( who starts an reveloution when he watches TV all day long ... ) but dumb, because ... well just look whats running in TV

So, bonus to happiness, bonus to culture, penalty to science?

 

[MRM]

So, bonus to happiness, bonus to culture, penalty to science?

Exactl

 

[mag827]

So, bonus to happiness, bonus to culture, penalty to science?

that will be a very good representation of Hollywood

 

[MagicBos]

Maybe Hollywood, Broadway and Rock 'n' Roll are making up for the loss of terrain luxuries that become obselete (isn't there a screenshot that suggests combustion makes whales obselete???). So maybe luxuries like ivory will not have an effect in an advanced civilization.

 

[Akka]

I don't deny the impact that Hollywood had on the world (nobody in his right mind would).
I am also aware of the wide appeal that rock'n'roll had.

But a Wonder isn't just "having a lot of impact". A wonder, like the name imply, is something that induce awe, respect, admiration. It has to be something seen as positive and admirable, something that impress you.
Rock'n'roll and Hollywood had influence, are fun, but I don't really get any "awe" feeling from them. Also, Hollywood is often seen as culturally influential, but not really in the good way.
Rock is a kind of music, and though popular, it hardly can pretend to be "wonderful" or "awe-inspiring". Additionnally, it's more of a concept than an accomplishment, just like Hollywood.

As such, they really don't belong to the "wonder" category. I could grudgingly accept Hollywood, but I will never feel it right. Rock'n'roll is plain absurd.

As for Broadway, it's downrigh ridiculous and doesn't even deserve an answer. They really were lacking idea for this one. Here is one I'll build once to see the movie, then mod out permanently of the game, even if it means playing with one wonder less.

 

[MysteriousS]

As for Broadway, it's downrigh ridiculous and doesn't even deserve an answer. They really were lacking idea for this one. Here is one I'll build once to see the movie, then mod out permanently of the game, even if it means playing with one wonder less.

I'd have to argue that. Most historians agree that broadway musicals are the first true american artform, and I think it qualifies as the modern equivilent of a wonder

 

[dc82]

Public theatre has always been a major artform, since the days of ancient Greece to Shakespeare and his works at the Globe Theatre (perhaps Broadway is a "replacement" for Shakespeare) - Since the 20th century, theatre has become more global - with works being done in major cities around the world - Broadway is just the representative of theatre as a whole. Same with rock & roll - while rock music paved the way and forever changed the way music (and much of the entertainment industry) is perceived and worked - The fact is, today, you can go to just about any music store in any country and find your favorite artist. Taking a step back, the influence music has, esp. in today's iTunes, MTV age - is huge.

 

[mitsho]

I have to disagree, Hollywood deserves its place as a Great Wonder a 100 percent. I't just the non-plus ultra in movie-worl. That there are many people - me included - that don't appreciate what film it produces has no impact whatsoever.
Rock&Roll (=modern music) has had the same impact, but it's somehow difficult to find a suitable 'wonder', so it belongs to the same sort of wonders as the "Theory of Evolution"...
The only I have is with Broadway: 1) it's only a modern wonder, but theatre existed for so many more years (and it's even a city improvement) 2) It's another American one (that's why they probably created the 3GorgesDam...

But we don't know enough if 1) is really true or just a lack or prerealese information.

mitsho

 

[Akka]

I'd have to argue that. Most historians agree that broadway musicals are the first true american artform, and I think it qualifies as the modern equivilent of a wonder

So because it's the first american artform, it's deserving a "wonder" title ?

Wow.
I'm then waiting for the followind Wonders :
- cavern paintings
- ballet
- homeric stories
- sonnets
- opera
- baroque
- jazz
- minstrels
and hundred of others.

Again, artforms aren't wonders (they could be techs, though), entertainments aren't wonders (or will we get a "Megadrive" wonder next ?), and anyway even in these case, Broadway wouldn't be deserving enough to get a title.

I'd like to keep wonders to REAL wonders, possibly to buildings or accomplishment, NOT social trends or fashion effects.

 

[Calsan]

Old Wonders like the Pyramids- built with slave labor- just sit there in a big stupid bulk-
serving the vanity of a "pharoah" so dillusional they thought themselves "divine" and actually had people believe it. Glad i am an american. We never had that idea of royality that other nations seem to still like.

Correction, the Piramids were build by farmers who actualy vollenteerd for it, because the fields in certain seasons were overflown.
(The Nile and all)
Think about that for a while

 

[Zenon_pt]

Look at it this way, in Civ3 you had Shakespeare's Theatre. It's the same thing if you think about it, though.

Yes, but the Apolo Program also is Apolo's and that change nothing...
If Apolo's is a SmallWondder(SW), why not Hollywood!!!

I can't see the big picture in this!!!

The Shakespeare's Theatre is quite different. Is a theatre wroten by Shakespeare. You can't define who 'created' Hollywood, bur you can say, "Oh, this's from that english guy... Ah! Shakespeare..."

BTW thanks for changing to this thread!

 

[Undertaker798]

People don't think of Great Library when they read books, but it's still a wonder.

When these things are made people stop and think what it has done to affect their lives. Like with the libary, it gave people the ability to learn, when some didn't even know what country they lived in.

Plus i think hollywood is a modern wonder, instead of older wonders (Not saying they're rubbish.)

Its for people who never had the time to build the older wonders because they were fixated on improvement. So it might be considered as a lucky break.

I don't think its a blow to culture, as sometimes television could lead a revalution (I cant spell :[ ) though advertising, it also makes a base of conversation.
For example:

Steve: You watch that movie?
Jimbob: Yeah it was great...

And so on and so forth.

Say what you will but i dont think firaxis would've added it if it is rubbish.

 

[dc82]

It's harder when wonders become more "abstract" - if you notice the older wonders were also buildings, often large or just designed in an awe-inspiring way - that would be considered impressive even in our time - once you hit "Universal Suffrage" or "Hollywood," it's harder to see a wonder because, one, it's not as concrete and "boxed" in - thus you have to take a step back and look at the "bigger picture," and two, just since we're living in modern times, it's always harder to see what's going to last and what's just a one-hit hype.

 

[TravisS]

Have you seen the women in Hollywood? Its a Great Wounder they dont fall forword. Maybe thats why civ4 made it a GW.

 

[Legionary37]

Uhh, I really don't think so.

 

[thehouse]

If you think about it Hollywood makes a lot of sense in the game as a great wonder then most. It does something and brings the state alot of money. compared to the pyraminds which are awesome but just sit there.

 

[Mewtarthio]

I'd definately have to agree that "Rock 'n Roll" is the most ridiculous Wonder ever created. If we're going to have a wonder for every entertainment medium, why isn't there a "Nintendo" or "Firaxis" wonder?

Also, the "Globe theatre" should produce plays. If the really wanted to include Broadway, Globe could go obsolete with Broadway's tech.

 

[Voice Of Reason]

What is a great wonder? That which inspires awe and of course wonder in all cultures across all times. They are the unique triumphs of the human mind or heart made material. Whether they are moveing the masses in creating something as grandiose, and is ultimately and beautifuly unnesscacry as the hanging gardens or the pyramids, or public works that improve the lives of millions of people i.e. the internet or three gorges damn; they are the determined pursuit of an entire people to one idea/belief at a certain point in history. It does get a little bit more tricky when dealing with the abstract but the universal suffarge is the acknowledgement that all people are inherantly equal and their voices must be heard. The theory of evolution is the commitment to the scientific method. Hollywood and rock and roll are art forms but highly influential art forms that have spread across the globe and have inspired or at least affected nearly everyone. I look at them as consumer art that everyone not just the elite can take part in and shape, which in the past was nearly unheard of. They are commitments to Art/Entertainment be it modern art but none the less art. But broadway hmmmm... Thats a tuff one cause "cats" could hardly be called high art... and influential...... Well I can't see the cast of cats having to exactly shake of the groupies...

 

[mitsho]

Well, there's not only "cats"...
What about Hair, Phantom of the Opera and the many many others?