Hoping the game will not force simultaneous turns

[FinalDoomsday]

With previous amplitude games I've played the game is always played simultaneously with the other players and there has been no way to play in a traditional turn based manner.

Now I like simultaneous turns in multiplayer it's a good timer saver but I am not a fan of it in singleplayer it made Endless Legend feel very chaotic with all the AI's moving at the same time, the game would frequently stutter and lag as the AI's calculate their paths and actions at the same time you're trying to manage your empire. It made the game feel more like an real time strategy at times as you raced to move a unit to an important position before the computer got there.

I really hope Humankind allows for normal turn based gameplay at least for singleplayer but I'd like to know what people here think would you be ok playing Humankind with simultaneous turns?

 

[WillowBrook]

Not having played Endless Legends, I have no experience with the turn mechanism, but I'm curious what others think.

 

[Siptah]

I think the traditional turns are slightly beneficial to the player, for example in turns when unit upgrades are available. I'm not even sure how civ VI deals with wonders that are finished the same turn - does player 1 always get the wonder or did you ever lose a wonder race in such cases?

Anyway, I don't see that much of a problem in simultaneous turns - in case of a possible imminent battle in which it might matter who moves first, I always move the relevant units at the very start of my turn - in civ as in EL.

 

[FinalDoomsday]

@Siptah The situation you mention is one of the issues I have with simultaneous turns because it adds an element of speed to the game. Sometimes ill be frantically dimissing the start of turn pop-ups in order to get to an army that needs orders before the AI moves which it often does because naturally the AI does not need to clear its screen of popups before it can begin.

 

[Siptah]

@Siptah The situation you mention is one of the issues I have with simultaneous turns because it adds an element of speed to the game. Sometimes ill be frantically dimissing the start of turn pop-ups in order to get to an army that needs orders before the AI moves which it often does because naturally the AI does not need to clear its screen of popups before it can begin.

at least there is a retreat button in EL. But I understand what you mean.

 

[DST1348]

What I dislike about the „simultaneous“ turns in Endless Legend, is that they are not quite. At the beginning of the new turn, the AI gets love emidately, whereas I get blocked by various pup-up menus, which I then have to close. Only when I have spend a few seconds closing all the message windows, do I have the chance to move my armies. But often, the AI moved its units before that, and a resource is taken, a city besieged, a combat initiated before my reinforments arrive... So, I strongly vote for a true turn-based game!

 

[Boris Gudenuf]

Simultaneous never is. Unless you are a Cyborg, the electronics can always 'move' faster than you can (how 'well' they can move or whether they should move at all is an AI problem, not a speed problem, and has already been grist for numerous discussions). Therefore, IMHO, 'Simultaneous' move in a single-player game is simply a way of giving the AI a little advantage so that it can make its Non-Optimal Moves a little faster, and occasionally gain an advantage.

Because of the potential problems with interface between 'players' and the map and the sheer frustration to the human player of having an 'artificial' advantage built into the game for the AI that is, essentially, not based on anything else in the game except, possibly, convenience to the programmer, it's a really bad idea.

As an aside, the idea of 'Simultaneous' or Continuous Action games in a historical game makes no sense anyway: it turns a strategic game into a tactical 'fastest hands win' semi-shooter. There is no such thing as a Real Time game except for parts of a First Person Shooter: does anyone want to spend three days sitting at a computer to play a game called Gettysburg? Or 5 months to play Stalingrad? Or 6000 years to play Civilization?

No, me neither.

KISS factor applies: Keep It Sequential and Simple.

 

[Catoninetales_Amplitude]

I'm afraid to say that the turns will be simultaneous even in single-player. (Speaking personally, I am not fond of it myself, but I have learned to live with it.)

We are quite aware of the "click race" against the AI at the start of the turn, though, and are looking into measures to alleviate this. For example, unlike in Endless Legend and Endless Space 2, the majority of notifications are not set to pop up full screen by default.

 

[Jkchart]

I'm afraid to say that the turns will be simultaneous even in single-player. (Speaking personally, I am not fond of it myself, but I have learned to live with it.)

We are quite aware of the "click race" against the AI at the start of the turn, though, and are looking into measures to alleviate this. For example, unlike in Endless Legend and Endless Space 2, the majority of notifications are not set to pop up full screen by default.

That's good, because that was one of the more frustrating parts of EL when I didn't have enough time to figure out what to do with armies and then the AI is on me everywhere at once

 

[Elhoim]

A pity about the forced simultaneous turns. Maybe an option for a timer before moves can be made?

 

[FinalDoomsday]

I'm a bit dissapointed with that but I respect your honesty and appriciate the confirmation. I assume its a technical issue to incorporate both modes rather than by design.

 

[Catoninetales_Amplitude]

I don't know if there is anything in the design that requires simultaneous turns, but I do expect it would be a significant technical effort to implement both. I am not expert on that.

 

[Boris Gudenuf]

I don't know if there is anything in the design that requires simultaneous turns, but I do expect it would be a significant technical effort to implement both. I am not expert on that.

My experience from working in designing and testing other types of gaming systems, Turn Sequence is so fundamental to play of any game that changing it even slightly affects a host of other things, so it is not something to be tried lightly.

 

[shaglio]

Well, this sucks. I was looking forward to Humankind, but I just assumed it was a TBS, not an RTS. As someone who has ADD, I just can't handle the constant ongoing activity of an RTS. Looks like I will have to await Civ 7 (or whatever Civ 6 currently has brewing).

 

[FinalDoomsday]

Well, this sucks. I was looking forward to Humankind, but I just assumed it was a TBS, not an RTS. As someone who has ADD, I just can't handle the constant ongoing activity of an RTS. Looks like I will have to await Civ 7 (or whatever Civ 6 currently has brewing).

It is still a turn based strategy, players can only do so much in a turn before they have to end the turn and wait for the other players to finish before moving to the next turn. However rather than having your own slot to act, all players act at the same time. It's not like Paradox games that move forward constantly.

I'd at least wait for solid gameplay to come out like an extended stream to make a final judgement. Alot of my issues come from Endless Legend which is now a fairly old game and hopefully Humankind will improve those issues I still think simultaneous turns for single player is strange and unessecary but I'm willing to give it another go.

Another thing I thought of is perhaps it is possible to make AI wait until the player begins moving its units before it starts moving theirs so the player has the time to review the situation of the new turn before the AI starts moving around.

 

[WillowBrook]

Another thing I thought of is perhaps it is possible to make AI wait until the player begins moving its units before it starts moving theirs so the player has the time to review the situation of the new turn before the AI starts moving around.

This would be great! I haven't played other amplitude games, so I haven't experienced their approach to simultaneous turns, but I don't like real- time games; I like to be able to take as long as I want to decide what I will do. I will likely still give the game a chance, but based on the description I read here, it is a drawback IMO.

 

[Siptah]

Relax. Simultaneous turns don‘t make a difference in most turns of a game in EL. In peaceful games, it may come down to a handful of turns. And you can still just pretend to be player #10 an make your move last. In games with more battles, this might be a drawback, but AI can often use some help ... battles are truly turn based in that game by the way, not simultaneously. It‘s not really a reason to avoid a game imho. Not even for the paradox rts games, by the way, since you do the majority of assignments and managing during paused game.

 

[Elhoim]

Another thing I thought of is perhaps it is possible to make AI wait until the player begins moving its units before it starts moving theirs so the player has the time to review the situation of the new turn before the AI starts moving around.

Yeah, that was my idea as well.

 

[tedhebert]

If I remember correctly from my Endless Space 2 games (because my endless legends games ar too far away to remember if it was the same), even if it's simultaneous turns, and times rolls down, you had a lot of control as to what speed the time was winding down,
AND you could completely stop the timer to allow time to think out things... I royally dislike RTSs (or should I even say hate ???), but found myself really easily getting used to this system of play.

 

[Boris Gudenuf]

If I remember correctly from my Endless Space 2 games (because my endless legends games ar too far away to remember if it was the same), even if it's simultaneous turns, and times rolls down, you had a lot of control as to what speed the time was winding down,
AND you could completely stop the timer to allow time to think out things... I royally dislike RTSs (or should I even say hate ???), but found myself really easily getting used to this system of play.

Haven't been able to ever get into Endless Space 2, but have played a fair amount of Endless Legend, and never found the Semi-Simultaneous Movement to be much of a problem - occasionally distracting and annoying, but in most games there just aren't that many occasions in which my units or armies and AI units or armies are both trying to move in the same directions and same purposes unless we are at war, and then it's usually an advantage to sit and wait until the opponent has committed himself, made all his moves, and then counterattack.