How about CIV stop being RACIST!!!

Should there be more sub-saharan Africa civs?

  • No! They had no "real" civilizations except the Zulu.

    Votes: 72 42.4%
  • Yes! If the Indians get 4, the East Asians get 4 Africa should get at least 2.

    Votes: 98 57.6%

  • Total voters
    170
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Civilization cultures are a nice mixture of history and commerical demand.
Yes, there's only one African nation included, but on the other hand, the Asians or Native Americans are abundant in the game (though their units all look European)
But that's the most normal thing in the world. Civilization has to be sold, and I bet there are more Luxembourgeans buying the game than Iranians or Peruvians, yet the Persians and the Incas are there and the Luxembourgeans ain't...

It's a good balance between both areas of interest.
 
FieldMarshall said:
SonicX, the reason why Civ doesn't sell in Iran and Peru is because there aren't very many people who own computers there, except the very rich. Good point, though.
I know that is the reason, but the reasons are irrelevant if you want to sell, only the results and facts count ;)
 
FieldMarshall said:
I wonder if the government of Iran even allows American products to be bought in their country?

Yes, they do. The US doesn't let American products to be sold in Iran, however.
 
Carver said:
Hello... I was being sarcastic in response to donoron's post. Did you even read it?



Telling people they are misinformed is hardly personal. There are plenty of personal attacks in forums like this - if you think about it I'm sure you can tell the difference. But I know your real reason for attempting to critize me is that you don't like my substantive argument. But rather than attempt to argue on substance you attempt to chime in as a third party with your own personal attacks. You will note that where I have chimed in was in response to substance, not petty personality conflicts like you have chosen to do.

Further, "telling people they have 'no idea what they are talking about' " was not my argument - again, I don't think you even read it - or as you read it you got so angry you stopped thinking. As one of donoron's own sources states, the Portugues were defeated. Thus their presence in Ethiopia was incosequetial to the 16th century war with the Muslims - who are now Ethiopians.

Thanks.

Ok I apologise for not noticing the 'sarcasm'. However please don't try to read my mind, if I had a problem with your argument I would have refuted it. I objected to the manner in which you were replying to Doronron in the specific lines that I quoted; which he felt, and I agreed, to be unnecessary and personal in nature.

Please try to remain rational and use arguments rather than utilising sarcasm, telling people they don't know what they are talking about, making bold statements that you 'know' I have an ulterior motive (that I do not have), accusing your critics of being in an emotional state (angry?! :lol: ) and changing the subject.
 
FieldMarshall said:
Italy, 1936. Ring a bell?
In my study of history, I have never once read about Ethiopia defeating a European Army.


1936 was the Second Italo-Abyssinian War. Italy lost the First Italo-Abyssinian War (1895-6), being decisively crushed at the Battle of Adowa by Abysinnian (as the Ethiopians were known at the time) forces.
 
Oda Nobunaga said:
It's not racism so much as it's pure commercial appeal. They want - for the most part - to put civilizations people (in the western world, their market) KNOW about in - civilizations peopel can relate to. There will be a few oddball choices everytime, but ultimately, the vast majority of civs will be the civs that are famous.

what the **** are you trying to say,i mean if they make mongals a civilation,then for 1-they are real idiots and 2-if your going to have a civ that wasnt even,well,A CIV,then you should have no problem making african trbes civs :D

SonicX said:
Civilization cultures are a nice mixture of history and commerical demand.
Yes, there's only one African nation included, but on the other hand, the Asians or Native Americans are abundant in the game (though their units all look European)
But that's the most normal thing in the world. Civilization has to be sold, and I bet there are more Luxembourgeans buying the game than Iranians or Peruvians, yet the Persians and the Incas are there and the Luxembourgeans ain't...

It's a good balance between both areas of interest.

YOU ARE WRONG :p

GeneralX said:
Can we have a definition of “racism” please? If I recall my Sociology lectures correctly racism is the belief that one group of people is genetically inferior to another (ie “White men can’t jump”). What we might be discussing is racial prejudice (discrimination on the basis of racial difference not necessarily perceived superiority/inferiority) or ethnocentrism (the belief that one culture/ethnicity is superior to another).

um,are you the new einstien or is it just me? :D

Moderator Action: Keep your ideas in one post, and keep your tone reasonable as well.
Please read the forum rules: http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=422889
 
It is stupid to call Civ racsit. TO be racist you have to have something against a certain Race. And this is clearly not the case because a game can not have a problem against anything( It cant think) :crazyeye:

The game is made for 1.historical acurracy and 2.gameplay. And most african civs don help either of these.

1.African countries have had verry little effect on the worlds history except conquest. would you put a country in the game because they were taken over? because I wouldnt.

2. what would Ethiopia's things be without conflicting with another country.
 
I am the Future said:
1.African countries have had verry little effect on the worlds history except conquest. would you put a country in the game because they were taken over? because I wouldnt.
One may wonder what Sioux or Iroquois have brought to the world that Ethiopians, Nubians or Maures wouldn't have.
 
Marla_Singer said:
One may wonder what Sioux or Iroquois have brought to the world that Ethiopians, Nubians or Maures wouldn't have.
Well, except for the ancient mid-east civs, no civ beside the European (incl. America) has brought anything to the world today...
Not anything significant in any way.
 
Marla_Singer said:
One may wonder what Sioux or Iroquois have brought to the world that Ethiopians, Nubians or Maures wouldn't have.

This is certainly not an argument against Ethiopians or Nubians ... but why does a civ need to have "brought something to the world" in order to be included? Often, contributions are mistakenly attributed, not unique, and/or the product of contact with other cultures (eg Judaism + Hellenism = Christianity). The most valid criteria for inclusion, in my mind, are the extent of the culture in its region, its relative influence over other cultures in the area, and a certain amount of time in existance - essentially, what was the civ's influence relative to the time and place in which it was found? So, for instance, we include the Iroquois, it was the major power in the Northeast in pre-Columbian times. Whether it's survived or not, or what it's left behind, is to me less relevant than having it there to represent the fact that a power did exist in that region for a time. Geographical and epochal representation I think is the way to go. Pick civs to represent the most remarkable group in an area during a specific epoch. At least with some sort of system or criteria for inclusion, people will not be so picky about "racism". The other option, in my mind, would be to portray the earliest civs in each region, and issue expansions to cover civs of later epochs. This way you could narrow Europe down to Greeks, Minoans, and Celts, with plenty of room left over for others.

Although, to answer the question, I'd have to be balanced in favour of native Americans. The Iroquois may have influenced the US Constitution, while other groups developed domesticated food plants without which we could never support the planet's current population (eg corn, potatoes, dozens of varieties of beans, tomatoes, peppers, chocolate, squash, the list goes on and on). Not to mention medical contributions - knowledge of everything from salicylic acid (eg aspirin) to the benefits of using purgatives to the syringe (they used thorns, but the principle of injection was unknown previously to Western medicine). Admittedly I know much less of Ethiopian or Nubian contributions, but I imagine that they were not devoid of contributions either.
 
SonicX said:
Well, except for the ancient mid-east civs, no civ beside the European (incl. America) has brought anything to the world today...
Not anything significant in any way.

Lol ...

Well, lets see ... paper, paint, gunpowder, steel, the compass, the rudder, the wheelbarrow, matches, rockets, paper money, a list of things so long it would easily fill a page, all came from the Far East.
 
Well, ok, I was actually pointing to Africa, Southern America or the Middle East ... the Middle East hasn't done anything significantly since 800 in non theological science.

I do acknowledge the inventions by China and Japan, don't get me wrong :)
 
As there have been many strong opinions already expressed in this forum, and considering that it is highly unlikely that anyone will concede defeat, I think the time has come to close this thread, or this discussion will simply go on into eternity!!!
 
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